Trump Ignores the Courts

[jmacvols1]

truley's take, as some others, the SC was to vague...

A Writ of “Facilitation”? Court Issues Curious Order in the Garcia Case

The media lit up yesterday with the order of the Supreme Court in the case of Kilmar Armando Abrego Garcia, an accused MS-13 member mistakingly sent to El Salvador. I have previously said that the …

jonathanturley.org

"I have previously said that the Administration should have brought back Garcia immediately and pushed for deportation under existing laws. Yet, in the order, the Court ordered the government to “facilitate” the return without stating what that means.


Last evening, the Court issued the short three-paragraph per curiam opinion in Noem v. Garcia.

After the ruling, many on the left claimed “Supreme Court in a unanimous decision: He has a legal right to be here, and you have to bring him back.”

It is a bit more ambiguous than that. The Court actually warned that the district court could order the government to facilitate but not necessarily “to effectuate” the return.

The application is granted in part and denied in part, subject to the direction of this order. Due to the administrative stay issued by THE CHIEF JUSTICE, the deadline imposed by the District Court has now passed. To that extent, the Government’s emergency application is effectively granted in part and the deadline in the challenged order is no longer effective. The rest of the District Court’s order remains in effect but requires clarification on remand. The order properly requires the Government to “facilitate” Abrego Garcia’s release from custody in El Salvador and to ensure that his case is handled as it would have been had he not been improperly sent to El Salvador. The intended scope of the term “effectuate” in the District Court’s order is, however, unclear, and may exceed the District Court’s authority. The District Court should clarify its directive, with due regard for the deference owed to the Executive Branch in the conduct of foreign affairs. For its part, the Government should be prepared to share what it can concerning the steps it has taken and the prospect of further steps. The order heretofore entered by THE CHIEF JUSTICE is vacated.

So what does that mean? The Court disagrees with many, including the Fourth Circuit, that President Trump had no inherent executive powers to countermand the district court’s order. He clearly does have countervailing powers that have to be weighed more heavily in the matter. The district court is expressly ordered to show “due regard for the deference owed to the Executive Branch in the conduct of foreign affairs.”

"What is left is a legal pushmi-pullyu that seems to be going in both directions at once. What if the Trump Administration says that inquiries were made, but the matter has proven intractable or unresolvable? Crickets.

No one would seriously believe that, but what right does the district court have to manage the relations or communications with a foreign country?

The problem with this shadow docket decision is that there is more shadow than sunlight in its meaning."

 

[LSU-SIU]

truley's take, as some others, the SC was to vague...

A Writ of “Facilitation”? Court Issues Curious Order in the Garcia Case

The media lit up yesterday with the order of the Supreme Court in the case of Kilmar Armando Abrego Garcia, an accused MS-13 member mistakingly sent to El Salvador. I have previously said that the …

jonathanturley.org

"I have previously said that the Administration should have brought back Garcia immediately and pushed for deportation under existing laws. Yet, in the order, the Court ordered the government to “facilitate” the return without stating what that means.


Last evening, the Court issued the short three-paragraph per curiam opinion in Noem v. Garcia.

After the ruling, many on the left claimed “Supreme Court in a unanimous decision: He has a legal right to be here, and you have to bring him back.”

It is a bit more ambiguous than that. The Court actually warned that the district court could order the government to facilitate but not necessarily “to effectuate” the return.


So what does that mean? The Court disagrees with many, including the Fourth Circuit, that President Trump had no inherent executive powers to countermand the district court’s order. He clearly does have countervailing powers that have to be weighed more heavily in the matter. The district court is expressly ordered to show “due regard for the deference owed to the Executive Branch in the conduct of foreign affairs.”

"What is left is a legal pushmi-pullyu that seems to be going in both directions at once. What if the Trump Administration says that inquiries were made, but the matter has proven intractable or unresolvable? Crickets.

No one would seriously believe that, but what right does the district court have to manage the relations or communications with a foreign country?

The problem with this shadow docket decision is that there is more shadow than sunlight in its meaning."

I think its much simpler than that. The order was basically vacated, so district court put something else together we can work with and pretty please executive branch work them if you can. Where it got complex was the three stooges playing politics, which might require a hard ball strategy for the administration. Just my take.

The executive branch shouldn't allow the courts to believe they have authority in this instance.

 

[Orange_Crush]

Its actually two fold at least.

1. I guess the lower court order doesn't say he must be returned, if I go by the language in the USSC order.



2. If the intend for him to be returned as well, that might be problematic depending on what the administration believes his status to be. If he is an illegal that shouldn't be in the U.S., under no situation should they help, assist, or allow him to return as he is not legally able to enter the U.S.

This is ignoring the fact that none of these courts have the authority in any real manner at this point. I even think the lower case might have to be dismissed per the ruling the other day as to a lack of jurisdiction at this point. He could possibly challenge his legal status if he tried to re-enter but nobody claims he isn't illegal.

If I were the U.S. I would probably in good faith send a letter to El Salvador that the individual is free to go from their stand point.

So, he is from El Salvador, didn't properly or legally seek asylum from El Salvador, but needs to be returned to the US because he needs asylum from El Salvador?

It sounds like the issue is that he is not from Venezuela, so shouldn't have been sent according to the Enemy Alien Act? So, have an immigration judge rule on his deportation, and he's deported.

If he doesn't deserve to be in the El Salvadoran prison, make some calls and ask for his release to his home town.

 

[LSU-SIU]

So, he is from El Salvador, didn't properly or legally seek asylum from El Salvador, but needs to be returned to the US because he needs asylum from El Salvador?

It sounds like the issue is that he is not from Venezuela, so shouldn't have been sent according to the Enemy Alien Act? So, have an immigration judge rule on his deportation, and he's deported.

If he doesn't deserve to be in the El Salvadoran prison, make some calls and ask for his release to his home town.

So, he is from El Salvador, didn't properly or legally seek asylum from El Salvador, but needs to be returned to the US because he needs asylum from El Salvador?

I think part of the immigration process was on hold due to the concerns of "gangs", at this stage its rubbish but not material to where things are right now. I agree in principle to where you are going with that though.

It sounds like the issue is that he is not from Venezuela, so shouldn't have been sent according to the Enemy Alien Act? So, have an immigration judge rule on his deportation, and he's deported.

The immigration process had previous issued a freeze on deportation and he had a green card at that point, which to me is BS but that is my understanding of where things were. I am not sure the process even survives at this point for a lack of jurisdiction????? (see ruling from the other case as far as APA challenge... not sure)

If he doesn't deserve to be in the El Salvadoran prison, make some calls and ask for his release to his home town.

Pretty much what I said, write a letter to El Salvador that he is free to go as far as the U.S. is concerned and there are no active international warrants but I would also tell the the lower court in a filing that the administration is doing it as a part of their duties and that the court has no authority to issue any commands in this regard.

 

[jmacvols1]

 

[LSU-SIU]

Not sure I know much about this one but I hope they kick his ass out, we'll see.

"No person should be deemed removable from their home for speaking out against the killing of Palestinian families, doctors and journalists," Abdalla's statement said. "Today, in court, the government reiterated the same baseless racist claims about my husband that we have heard time and again, an attempt to smear those calling for an end to Israel's brutal genocide in Gaza. My husband is a political prisoner who is being deprived of his rights because he believes Palestinians deserve equal dignity and freedom."

Judge rules Columbia activist Mahmoud Khalil can be deported

He's not a political prisoner, he can go home anytime he wants. You stupid worthless unappreciative assholes.

 

[BernardKingGOAT]

King Donald!

 

[LSU-SIU]

King Donald!

A King would just have that guy slaughtered or what he would like to do to Jews, behead them. If he or his family thinks he's a political prisoner than they are complete idiots, he can go home anytime he wants. I actually blame our corrupt school system that has taught a whole generation that they are always the victim including this ahole and his wife.

I mean if Trump is so horrible, why would he want to stay here? I'll pay for his flight back home.

 

[BernardKingGOAT]

A King would just have that guy slaughtered or what he would like to do to Jews, behead them. If he or his family thinks he's a political prisoner than they are complete idiots, he can go home anytime he wants. I actually blame our corrupt school system that has taught a whole generation that they are always the victim including this ahole and his wife.

I mean if Trump is so horrible, why would he want to stay here? I'll pay for his flight back home.

Did I say he was horrible?

It's a reality TV show for 4 years. He's pushing all limits and this clown show of a cabinet is going right along with it. It's what he wants. He was elected and that's all that matters right now

 

[LSU-SIU]

Did I say he was horrible?

It's a reality TV show for 4 years. He's pushing all limits and this clown show of a cabinet is going right along with it. It's what he wants. He was elected and that's all that matters right now

I believe in that context, yes.

 

[BernardKingGOAT]

I believe in that context, yes.

Yes, I think you do believe in Trump

 

[LSU-SIU]

Yes, I think you do believe in Trump

I have no idea what that means. You are not operating in good faith. As far as that unappreciative a-hole, hopefully they get him gone and for good reason.

 

[Orange_Crush]

 

[BernardKingGOAT]

I have no idea what that means. You are not operating in good faith. As far as that unappreciative a-hole, hopefully they get him gone and for good reason.

You aren't remotely aware of my "good faith"

Who is the unappreciative a-hole?

 

[MemphisVol77]

I think LSU's point, however abrasive his delivery may be, is that the plaintiffs created the only verifiable loophole by filing in the wrong venue.

What other loophole did the government use?

I literally covered that in the quote you responded to. I never said otherwise, you are interpreting both mine and LSU's stances incorrectly.

"whatever federal "local" jurisdiction they are. their issue with the Bossaberg case was it was a guy detained in Texas appealing in Washington DC. there would have been nothing stopped him from appealing in Texas."

and LSU never said they COULD have had due process. his whole stance has been the admin was totally in the right, and that the Supreme Court just vindicated them.

I agree with you that Trump wanted to be able to deport without due process. By the last quote box in my initial reply to you, I think USSC agrees with that sentiment, stayed ahead of it, and clarified AEA deportation parameters.

I don't agree with everything LSU says, but in this particular case(TRUMP v. J. G. G.), SCOTUS did vindicate the admin. WRT habeas, it wasn't the courts function to vindicate or condem.

 

[dalton_vol]

View attachment 734490

Is LG and evil sad that one of their own is leaving?

 

[Orangeslice13]

Who is the unappreciative a-hole?

I’ve been called that a time or three.

 

[BernardKingGOAT]

I’ve been called that a time or three.

It was you?

 

[Orangeslice13]

It was you?

Probably not every time the phrase is used….and it is probably appropriate for me too often as well

 

[LSU-SIU]

You aren't remotely aware of my "good faith"

Who is the unappreciative a-hole?

You're right, I'm not aware of you working in good faith.

 

[EasternVol]

A King would just have that guy slaughtered or what he would like to do to Jews, behead them. If he or his family thinks he's a political prisoner than they are complete idiots, he can go home anytime he wants. I actually blame our corrupt school system that has taught a whole generation that they are always the victim including this ahole and his wife.

I mean if Trump is so horrible, why would he want to stay here? I'll pay for his flight back home.

You don't know much at all about the guy do you? You're wrong on a few points. I italicized the incorrect parts of your post and put my comments below.
Modern kings don't hold life and death power over commoners.
I can't find where he's made any anti-Semitic remarks. I have seen that he's condemned anti-Semitism and other forms of racism, and expressed his appreciation for the Jewish students protesting against the events in Gaza. If he's expressed anti-Semitic dogma I don't think Jewish faculty and students at Columbia would be protesting his arrest. Can you cite anything factual to the contrary?
His arrest and planned deportation is absolutely political. To say it's not is extremely asinine.
He didn't attend American public schools.
Would you understand that he wants to stay with his wife and soon to be born child?

 

[LSU-SIU]

Is LG and evil sad that one of their own is leaving?

They should be glad as another one escaped the bad Orange dictator. Hopefully, back to his non-political prisoner status in Syria where everything is peachy apparently. What an ungrateful POS family that is.

 

[LSU-SIU]

You don't know much at all about the guy do you? You're wrong on a few points. I italicized the incorrect parts of your post and put my comments below.
Modern kings don't hold life and death power over commoners.
I can't find where he's made any anti-Semitic remarks. I have seen that he's condemned anti-Semitism and other forms of racism, and expressed his appreciation for the Jewish students protesting against the events in Gaza. If he's expressed anti-Semitic dogma I don't think Jewish faculty and students at Columbia would be protesting his arrest. Can you cite anything factual to the contrary?
His arrest and planned deportation is absolutely political. To say it's not is extremely asinine.
He didn't attend American public schools.
Would you understand that he wants to stay with his wife and soon to be born child?

I never said it wasn't political, the administration is invoking a law that is purely political. He is not a political prisoner. He's an ungrateful POS.

Would you understand that he wants to stay with his wife and soon to be born child?

I don't care, he can go back to lovely Syria and talk about how there are no dictators there and where beheading are great, and he's not a political prisoner anymore.

BTW, you made up all kinds of points you claimed I was wrong about which I really didn't even get into.

 

[EasternVol]

I never said it wasn't political, the administration is invoking a law that is purely political. He is not a political prisoner. He's an ungrateful POS.

I don't care, he can go back to lovely Syria and talk about how there are no dictators there and where beheading are great, and he's not a political prisoner anymore.

 

[LSU-SIU]

To all the nice grateful humble great political prisoners, you can actually go home.