Trade Wars and Tariffs

#2,376
#2,376
Orange_Crush said:
At the end of the day, support will come from results. It sounds like the EU just agreed to a 0 for 0 tariff scheme with us. Not sure how that will affect VATs, but if the 0 for 0 is true and it helps trade balance, adds jobs, etc...

If it improves the average person's life, then they will support it. Very few people, at the end of the day, will get hung up on the math used to improve their lives.

If it doesn't improve things, people will generally lost support for him. This isn't complicated.
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Oh that will clearly be the mantra if there is some kind of positive result from this fiasco. However you’re just proposing the same “ends justifies the means” narrative I’ve poked at all morning. No even if the ends is some kind of net positive the means in this fiasco is absolutely moronic and always will be.
 
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#2,377
#2,377
NorthDallas40 said:
Oh that will clearly be the mantra if there is some kind of positive result from this fiasco. However you’re just proposing the same “ends justifies the means” narrative I’ve poked at all morning. No even if the ends is some kind of net positive the means in this fiasco is absolutely moronic and always will be.
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No. I'm saying that at the end of the day, the average person's approval will hinge on how it affects them. You can agree or deny, but it's the truth.
 
#2,378
#2,378
Orange_Crush said:
At the end of the day, support will come from results. It sounds like the EU just agreed to a 0 for 0 tariff scheme with us. Not sure how that will affect VATs, but if the 0 for 0 is true and it helps trade balance, adds jobs, etc...

If it improves the average person's life, then they will support it. Very few people, at the end of the day, will get hung up on the math used to improve their lives.

If it doesn't improve things, people will generally lost support for him. This isn't complicated.
Click to expand...

I don't think the EU had a lot of named Tariffs on us, they instead nail the USA products with the VATs, Environmental Fees, etc.

One area where EU is notoriously aggressive on USA about (and kind of don't blame them) is food products. They want to protect their unique localized wines, spirits, cheese, etc.
 
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#2,380
#2,380
A country reducing tariffs on our goods mean that country's citizens pay less to purchase our goods, not that our goods cost less here at home.
 
#2,381
#2,381
Orange_Crush said:
No. I'm saying that at the end of the day, the average person's approval will hinge on how it affects them. You can agree or deny, but it's the truth.
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“At the end of the day, support will come from results“

That is your first sentence. That absolutely looks like the end justifies the means to me. We can agree to disagree on that if you’d like.

Yes everyone will form their view by their own net impact. That’s usually the case for any government action. I’ve always said people vote with their checkbook impact.
 
#2,382
#2,382
lawgator1 said:
A country reducing tariffs on our goods mean that country's citizens pay less to purchase our goods, not that our goods cost less here at home.
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No duh. The point being that if they cost less to purchase there, we can be more competitive selling there. Maybe manufacturing more here. Which could make more jobs here to make those extra widgets here.
 
#2,383
#2,383
lawgator1 said:
A country reducing tariffs on our goods mean that country's citizens pay less to purchase our goods, not that our goods cost less here at home.
Click to expand...

Wait, are you trying to tell me that the US doesn't pay the tariffs that Vietnam puts on US goods?
 
#2,384
#2,384
NorthDallas40 said:
“At the end of the day, support will come from results“

That is your first sentence. That absolutely looks like the end justifies the means to me. We can agree to disagree on that if you’d like.

Yes everyone will form their view by their own net impact. That’s usually the case for any government action. I’ve always said people vote with their checkbook impact.
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I never said a word about my support. Personally, I think he looks like a buffoon, as he often does.

But if he makes life better for the average person, they will support him.

Here's what I responded to:

NorthDallas40 said:
Then the admin should be truthful in their communications of their methods and stop gas lighting us because that actually hurts support for this debacle from people actually dissecting the methods
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My point being: Few people will dissect anything except how it affects them at the end.
 
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#2,387
#2,387
Orange_Crush said:
I never said a word about my support. Personally, I think he looks like a buffoon, as he often does.

But if he makes life better for the average person, they will support him.

Here's what I responded to:



My point being: Few people will dissect anything except how it affects them at the end.
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I didn’t accuse you of supporting it I just copied your first sentence verbatim.

We do not disagree on your last sentence and I in fact stated I believe the same thing.
 
#2,389
#2,389
bamawriter said:
The EU's VATs are irrelevant to trade because they apply equally to domestic products.
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At this point I wouldn’t be shocked if Trump is trying to get US imports excluded from VAT while leaving them in place for domestic production. Which is idiotic but fits nicely into the “logic” in play here.
 
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#2,390
#2,390
NorthDallas40 said:
I didn’t accuse you of supporting it I just copied your first sentence verbatim.

We do not disagree on your last sentence and I in fact stated I believe the same thing.
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Then we agree. I'm not sure what the misunderstanding is. It in no way conflicts with saying:

“At the end of the day, support will come from results“, especially in response to your "group support" point.
 
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#2,394
#2,394
Orange_Crush said:
Links?
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His media reports speak in terms of nations imposing them. He does not speak in terms of who benefits from that. Or who actually pays it.

Again, would be nice if we had an objective measure of these and when they trigger a response from us.
 
#2,395
#2,395
Orange_Crush said:
Then we agree. I'm not sure what the misunderstanding is. It in no way conflicts with saying:

“At the end of the day, support will come from results“, especially in response to your "group support" point.
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We do agree, after you clarified we do.

There is no dichotomy here that I see both things we are saying can be true. People can look at the net impact on their pocket after this finishes churning and view the process favorably. They could even promote the process as sone kind of brilliant 5D chess since they benefited… even if the process is completely moronic yet we somehow yielded a net positive. 🤷‍♂️

On rereading I think we’re just making rather blunt posts back and forth tone wise that could be received as disagreement. Your point is valid. I’m just saying my point could be also and not conflict with yours.
 
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#2,396
#2,396
lawgator1 said:
His media reports speak in terms of nations imposing them. He does not speak in terms of who benefits from that. Or who actually pays it.

Again, would be nice if we had an objective measure of these and when they trigger a response from us.
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Nations/governments do impose them.

He's been very plain that foreign tariffs affect how much we export to other countries (i.e. how much their people buy of our products due to price hikes), thus the amount of manufacturing we've lost in this country.

So, WTH are you talking about?
 
#2,397
#2,397
NorthDallas40 said:
At this point I wouldn’t be shocked if Trump is trying to get US imports excluded from VAT while leaving them in place for domestic production. Which is idiotic but fits nicely into the “logic” in play here.
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If that were to happen, would you support that result?
 
#2,399
#2,399
NorthDallas40 said:
We do agree, after you clarified we do.

There is no dichotomy here that I see both things we are saying can be true. People can look at the net impact on their pocket after this finishes churning and view the process favorably. They could even promote the process as sone kind of brilliant 5D chess since they benefited… even if the process is completely moronic yet we somehow yielded a net positive. 🤷‍♂️

On rereading I think we’re just making rather blunt posts back and forth tone wise that could be received as disagreement. Your point is valid. I’m just saying my point could be also and not conflict with yours.
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All good. I'm good with blunt posts, and am free to apologize when they cause misunderstandings. (Not that I think any are needed here, btw.) I'm quite sure you've been the target of a few of my apologies aamof, lol.

I think Trump looks like a buffoon. I also think, due to his art of the deal mantras, that he's perfectly willing to be thought a buffoon/crazy/unsettled/untrustworthy/chaotic/etc if it helps get the deal done. I also think he may actually be buffoon-ish at many times.

Those can all be true.

At the end of the day, I am convinced that Trump sees the ends as justifying the means. I'm not sure I'll ever be in a position to know if he was a buffoon or playing 5D chess. lol

I can just hope that it all works out well for us in the end. And even when I can't trust that or Trump, my ultimate trust is in God, who loves me so much that He proved the gospel for my benefit. Beyond that, everything else looks a lot less dangerous.

Thx, and peace.
 
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