Trade Wars and Tariffs

#805
#805
mrorange211 said:
Free trade killed the middle class in America. I don't know how anyone can argue otherwise. I don't like tariffs strictly from a selfish pov (I'm in the service sector and heavily invested in stocks), but I understand the play. I think COVID taught us that there are certain industries, like medicine, that we have to have in our country and not outsourced.
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First of all, we've never actually practiced free trade. We've always protected preferred industries. We protected steel and hurt all manufacturing reliant on steel. We **** ourselves with this stuff.

Second, trade is a big reason average Americans have so much purchasing power and the global economy is where it's at at this point and time. I just asked Chat GPT how much it would cost to make a TV entirely in the United States, and it said "take a $500 TV say, and add about $200-400 extra" and that was just to assemble components here. I couldn't get a decent answer on if all the components were made here, too.

So we cry about the death of the middle class. Maybe it is dead, I don't know. Means something different to everybody, I suppose. But I do know trade is a huge reason the "dead" middle class (and the poor) are able to consume so much. Imagine a middle class that has more manufacturing jobs, but everything is twice as expensive. Doesn't sound great. Do you want a factory job? I don't. I don't want that for my kids, either.
 
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#807
#807
Velo Vol said:
Wait where is the $600 billion going to come from when everything is made in America (supposedly)?

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taxes on imports on goods, items made in other countries.

Trump is finally leveling the playing fieild and the left in this country hate it.
 
#808
#808
Ashevolle said:
Tennessee has abhorrent public education. Many many states are WAY better than Tennessee and have good public schools. Where i live no one sends their kids to private school unless they want a religious education because, scholastically, the public school options are simply better unless you live in an economically depressed district.
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#816
#816
n_huffhines said:
Second, trade is a big reason average Americans have so much purchasing power and the global economy is where it's at at this point and time. I just asked Chat GPT how much it would cost to make a TV entirely in the United States, and it said "take a $500 TV say, and add about $200-400 extra" and that was just to assemble components here. I couldn't get a decent answer on if all the components were made here, too.
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You point is correct, though I don't know about citing Chat GPT as a reference.
 
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#817
#817
Velo Vol said:


You point is correct, though I don't know about citing Chat GPT as a reference.
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Do you use it? As a regular user, I have a pretty good idea what kind of trust to put into it. I consider this a reasonable guesstimate. It gives you 5 paragraphs explaining the answer, it's not just spitting out some number like Nostradamus.
 
#818
#818
Orangeslice13 said:
I am not a fan of cheap goods at the expense of human slaves just because they were unfortunate enough to be born there
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That's something to consider, but . . . do you think their lives would be better if the factory wasn't there?
n_huffhines said:
Do you use it? As a regular user, I have a pretty good idea what kind of trust to put into it. I consider this a reasonable guesstimate. It gives you 5 paragraphs explaining the answer, it's not just spitting out some number like Nostradamus.
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Not really.

I guess it's more reliable that a lot of what people post here. It just seems weird to read
 
#819
#819
Velo Vol said:
Not really.

I guess it's more reliable that a lot of what people post here. It just seems weird to read
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The user can ask the wrong question and get a bad answer, and that's where it gets really unreliable. For example, somebody asked if a Lebron james photo was a "fake photo" and it said "no." The truth was it was a doctored version of a real photo, so technically not a fake but still a lie, which is what the user meant to ask.

Or the more complicated the question, the less reliable it can get. For example, ask it to build a table of current NBA players with 20k points under the age of 30. It couldn't make it accurate.

But most of the time you can get a pretty helpful answer if you ask it right.

Here is the first half of the answer I got. There are two more sections and a conclusion, lol. It often volunteers sources and you can always ask it for sources or why it's claiming something.

Screenshot_20250331-193825_ChatGPT.jpg
 
#820
#820
Velo Vol said:
That's something to consider, but . . . do you think their lives would be better if the factory wasn't there?
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Is that the argument that was used here?
“Ya, they’re slaves, but isn’t that better for them than the tribal squalor they’re from?”

Hard pass on the suppression of others for our benefit.
 
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#821
#821
Orangeslice13 said:
Is that the argument that was used here?
“Ya, they’re slaves, but isn’t that better for them than the tribal squalor they’re from?”

Hard pass on the suppression of others for our benefit.
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If my choice is working 12 hours in the field for a few cents or working in a factory for same or better, why wouldn't I work in the factory?
 
#822
#822
McDad said:
If my choice is working 12 hours in the field for a few cents or working in a factory for same or better, why wouldn't I work in the factory?
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Slave wages are not ok.
And what makes you think it’s only 12 hours?
And they are not working here for a few cents in the field.

Now if a few cents in the fields is all they can make there then that’s on their government and their people. But me building a factory to take advantage of them for cheap crap does nothing to elevate their situation.

However, if instead of tariffs we want to pass a law saying you can’t import anything here unless they pay at our minimum wage and manufacture by our osha safety standards then I’m good with that.
 
#823
#823
Orangeslice13 said:
Slave wages are not ok.
And what makes you think it’s only 12 hours?
And they are not working here for a few cents in the field.

Now if a few cents in the fields is all they can make there then that’s on their government and their people. But me building a factory to take advantage of them for cheap crap does nothing to elevate their situation.

However, if instead of tariffs we want to pass a law saying you can’t import anything here unless they pay at our minimum wage and manufacture by our osha safety standards then I’m good with that.
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You can modify the details however you wish. Doesn't matter to me. Either Sowell or Williams brought the concept to my awareness about 30 years ago. So today I pick your brain about it.

Wouldn't the person working for meager wages be choosing the best option of all their employment options just like you and I do?
 
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#824
#824
jmacvols1 said:
the 600 billion is not pulled out of thin air based on actual taxes being levied on imports.
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Does it account for the loss in economic output caused by imposing the tariffs to begin with? Tariffs are highly disruptive to the economy.
 
#825
#825
The vast majority of the US are used to paying less for every day goods made overseas. Tariffs based on the theory that we can return manufacturing of those goods to the US is designed to benefit the US manufacturers, not the consumers.

Reality is, this is a massive tax on average Americans to benefit the owners.
 
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