Pete Hegseth, Trump Dept of Defense nominee…

[LSU-SIU]

This is technically correct, but one has to wonder had this never happened if the administration would considered the information classified.

He is the head of the agency, he can deem it whatever he wants. If the President deems it classified, than he rules either by will or force and the agency head will be thrown out on his head.

Basically, a good portion of shock and awe was declassified way prior to the event.

Only the President could make it classified again.

 

[Sandman 423]

That "vegetable" can intellectually run circles around you. Stick to what you're good at, licking boots.

Do you see anything funny about you calling him a boot licker while defending Bidens mental acuity?

 

[rjd970]

He is the head of the agency, he can deem it whatever he wants. If the President deems it classified, than he rules either by will or force and the agency head will be thrown out on his head.

Basically, a good portion of shock and awe was declassified way prior to the event.

But the question here is the reason for the declassification. The reeks of political cover, and not operational or national security based.

 

[LSU-SIU]

But the question here is the reason for the declassification. The reeks of political cover, and not operational or national security based.

Well, we can say its self serving but there is no way to prove that, but even that is meaningless as he has classification authority regardless if it was self-serving or not.

 

[BowlBrother85]

Well you just proved how ignorant you are of the subject. Outside of nuclear weapons POTUS can declare anything unclassified. He needs no ones approval, permission or review. So if the administration says it wasn't classified, it wasn't classified.

.... but not retroactive to its public disclosure, and providing information to a journalist is considered public disclosure, unless you state that it is "off the record" first.

If either Trump or Hegseth had declared the group chat information to be unclassified material prior to its public disclosure, either verbally or in writing? Then that's fine. It's unclassified.

However, there is no indication that they did that, and it would have been stupid to declare that information unclassified prior to the start of that operation. It would have given Goldberg complete freedom to post it to the internet.

There is no getting around it .... Pete Hegseth disclosed classified information to someone (Goldberg), who did not have the necessary security clearance to receive it.

 

[rjd970]

Well, we can say its self serving but there is no way to prove that, but even that is meaningless as he has classification authority regardless if it was self-serving or not.

Not sure anyone is disagreeing with the bolded, so no need to keep saying it.

And I categorically disagree it is meaningless, if in fact, it was self-serving and not security based. That should be a fireable offense and at least bordering on treason.

 

[LSU-SIU]

Not sure anyone is disagreeing with the bolded, so no need to keep saying it.

And I categorically disagree it is meaningless, if in fact, it was self-serving and not security based. That should be a fireable offense and at least bordering on treason.

That is basically where this is and I have no problem with the opinion.

Does Trump believe in him?
Do you believe in Trump?

least bordering on treason

If that was the case than all the administrations that have come before disclosing operations in an even more blatant manner would be locked up. Nobody has complained till now and the Iraqis had some measure of anti-aircraft, and that was huge operation.

 

[hog88]

.... but not retroactive to its public disclosure, and providing information to a journalist is considered public disclosure, unless you state that it is "off the record" first.

If either Trump or Hegseth had declared the group chat information to be unclassified material prior to its public disclosure, either verbally or in writing? Then that's fine. It's unclassified.

However, there is no indication that they did that, and it would have been stupid to declare that information unclassified prior to the start of that operation. It would have given Goldberg complete freedom to post it to the internet.

There is no getting around it .... Pete Hegseth disclosed classified information to someone (Goldberg), who did not have the necessary security clearance to receive it.

First the classifying authority (in this case PH) would have had to place a security classification on the information. If he never did that, then technically it was never classified.

Yeah, I know it's BS but that is how it works. Goldberg was in a no win situation, if he disclosed it prior the admin could have claimed he published classified information.

 

[BowlBrother85]

He is the head of the agency, he can deem it whatever he wants. If the President deems it classified, than he rules either by will or force and the agency head will be thrown out on his head.

Basically, a good portion of shock and awe was declassified way prior to the event.

Only the President could make it classified again.

LOL.

You can't declassify information retroactive to its public disclosure. Trump and Hegseth could have deemed it unclassified prior to the group chat, but there is no indication that they either of them did .... It is highly unlikely that they would have deemed such information as unclassified prior to the group chat, because it was of a sensitive nature which involved a military strike which had not yet begun.

 

[LSU-SIU]

First the classifying authority (in this case PH) would have had to place a security classification on the information. If he never did that, then technically it was never classified.

Yeah, I know it's BS but that is how it works. Goldberg was in a no win situation, if he disclosed it prior the admin could have claimed he published classified information.

The classification authority has the ability to declassify anytime as long as the information was controlled by the agency first, and not another agency (summary and generally speaking).

 

[hog88]

LOL.

You can't declassify information retroactive to its public disclosure. Trump and Hegseth could have deemed it unclassified prior to the group chat, but there is no indication that they either of them did .... It is highly unlikely that they would have deemed such information as unclassified prior to the group chat, because it was of a sensitive nature which involved a military strike which had not yet begun.

They would have to first put a classification on it.

 

[BowlBrother85]

First the classifying authority (in this case PH) would have had to place a security classification on the information. If he never did that, then technically it was never classified.

Yeah, I know it's BS but that is how it works. Goldberg was in a no win situation, if he disclosed it prior the admin could have claimed he published classified information.

That flies in the face of what I have read.

 

[LSU-SIU]

LOL.

You can't declassify information retroactive to its public disclosure. Trump and Hegseth could have deemed it unclassified prior to the group chat, but there is no indication that they either of them did .... It is highly unlikely that they would have deemed such information as unclassified prior to the group chat, because it was of a sensitive nature which involved a military strike which had not yet begun.

You think they bring it all to an office and get a stamp, that isn't how it works at that level. If they verbally say its unclass, its unclass... there is no real process where this information was.

You are not reading what has been posted, I can't help you there.

 

[LSU-SIU]

They would have to first put a classification on it.

He thinks there is some huge complex declassification process or something, if the classified material was maintained by the agency, the agency head has the ability to just declassify it. He doesn't have to put a stamp on some imaginary piece of paper.

 

[hog88]

That flies in the face of what I have read.

In what way? Yeah there are things that are automatically classified but if PH said it wasn't at the time he posted it it wasn't. Complete Bull Scatology I know but that's how it works

 

[titansvolsfaninga]

That "vegetable" can intellectually run circles around you. Stick to what you're good at, licking boots.

 

[BowlBrother85]

They would have to first put a classification on it.

Did they? If Goldberg had published that information on March 11th .... I can just hear Trump screaming "TREASON!!!!."

 

[LSU-SIU]

In what way? Yeah there are things that are automatically classified but if PH said it wasn't at the time he posted it it wasn't. Complete Bull Scatology I know but that's how it works

He as the ability to declassify the material if it was part of the agency material, generally speaking. Whether it was classified or not at any point is immaterial.

 

[hog88]

Did they? If Goldberg had published that information on March 11th .... I can just hear Trump screaming "TREASON!!!!."

I agree, Goldberg made the prudent decision. They would have nailed his azz, that's why I said he was in a no win situation.

 

[BowlBrother85]

In what way? Yeah there are things that are automatically classified but if PH said it wasn't at the time he posted it it wasn't. Complete Bull Scatology I know but that's how it works

That's what I've read .... that this information would have been automatically classified. Of course, the President can declassify it if he wants to. If I'm wrong, so be it. I don't claim to be an expert, but that was my understanding based on what I've read.

 

[rjd970]

That is basically where this is.

Does Trump believe in him?
Do you believe in Trump?



If that was the case than all the administrations that have come before disclosing operations in an even more blatant manner would be locked up. Nobody has complained till now.

Again, if it were self-serving, then the classification authority is putting political cover ahead of American lives and interests. Nobody expects anyone to get locked up for doing it, but let's be honest about what is right and wrong here. Given the way the Hillary thing played out, the right would be having a field day if the roles were reversed and all this water carrying from the right would be shifted to the left.

Cavalier handling of classified information is wrong, period. It was wrong with GWB did it, it was wrong with Hillary did it, and yes, it is wrong in this case. Calling it OK because the classification authority deemed it "unclassified" is missing the point and using technicalities and semantics instead of just saying "we messed this up".

Anybody that has been in the military or defense industry knows at the very least if this were a low level guy there would be some mandatory security training coming, if not being fired altogether.

 

[LSU-SIU]

Again, if it were self-serving, then the classification authority is putting political cover ahead of American lives and interests. Nobody expects anyone to get locked up for doing it, but let's be honest about what is right and wrong here. Given the way the Hillary thing played out, the right would be having a field day if the roles were reversed and all this water carrying from the right would be shifted to the left.

Cavalier handling of classified information is wrong, period. It was wrong with GWB did it, it was wrong with Hillary did it, and yes, it is wrong in this case. Calling it OK because the classification authority deemed it "unclassified" is missing the point and using technicalities and semantics instead of just saying "we messed this up".

Anybody that has been in the military or defense industry knows at the very least if this were a low level guy there would be some mandatory security training coming, if not being fired altogether.

You can have that opinion if you wish, I generally agree with you.

Anybody that has been in the military or defense industry knows at the very least if this were a low level guy there would be some mandatory security training coming, if not being fired altogether.

The problem with that is massive large scale operations in detail have been given to the media over the last 30-35 years and nobody had a problem with it. However, you are free to have that opinion but it comes down do you trust Trump or not.

I mean I kind of agree with you, but my question is why is this a problem now?

 

[LSU-SIU]

That's what I've read .... that this information would have been automatically classified. Of course, the President can declassify it if he wants to. If I'm wrong, so be it. I don't claim to be an expert, but that was my understanding based on what I've read.

Yes he can, so what is the problem. If the President deemed it unclass, its unclass. This is the basics of the fraud indictment of Trump on his classified document case.

 

[BowlBrother85]

Yes he can, so what is the problem. If the President deemed it unclass, its unclass. This is the basics of the fraud indictment of Trump on his classified document case.

Fair enough.

 

[LSU-SIU]

Fair enough.

The difference to me between something like Hillary is multiple fold.

> she most likely did not have classification authority over all the information on the e-mail server so she couldn't just magically say its not classified
> the president probably wasn't going to back her up and say its unclass for obvious reasons... they don't want to disclose it even now
> she was not authorized to use the e-mail server for cabinet means of communication especially since they already have e-mail at .gov
> what she was really trying to do was hide what she was doing i.e. corruption (although that might be outsides the discussion)
> she than tried to cover her tracks by "wiping" the evidence

Do I kind of agree with you in principle, to a degree - would I like to see them more careful with this information, yes. The issue is, we have had massive attacks which prior administrations have given lots more data points and nobody cared.

Just my take.

I just don't know how anyone goes anywhere with this - I mean its political pressure like all the other things, all that is failing though and actually have the opposite impact.

Hegseth should start doing advertising for Signal.