2025 Seed Watch Party Thread

#277
#277
TheMookieMonster said:
This is in fact not the only difference in a 1-seed and 2-seed and history and statistics support that.
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He's also incorrect in thinking we'll be in the South Region, which we can't be, since we'll be the 2nd or 3rd team taken out of the SEC and Auburn already occupies that region.
 
#281
#281
bleedingTNorange said:
Idk, if we were essentially neck & neck with them and were saying we still have a shot then I think they do too. Their loss was pretty much same as ours, but they’ve got a chance for a much better win in their finale then we do.
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Last night Lunardi’s observation in the interview was that the record over their last six games is possibly insurmountable, and the loss being at home was the final nail. I agree with you that beating Auburn on the road could be enough, but it feels like a stretch. Again, I’m never referencing Lunardi as a sage. He’s a mouthpiece.
 
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#283
#283
Stoerner Fumbles said:
Last night Lunardi’s observation in the interview was that the record over their last six games is possibly insurmountable, and the loss being at home was the final nail. I agree with you that beating Auburn on the road could be enough, but it feels like a stretch. Again, I’m never referencing Lunardi as a safe. He’s a mouthpiece.
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I missed Lunardi’s interview and saying that, so that definitely might be the case then.
 
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#284
#284
VolCalls said:
He's also incorrect in thinking we'll be in the South Region, which we can't be, since we'll be the 2nd or 3rd team taken out of the SEC and Auburn already occupies that region.
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I’m starting to question this, bracketing principles I’ve found say if a conference has more than 4 teams seeded in top 16 then you can have multiple in a region…not seen anything saying top 4 have to be in different regions.
 
#285
#285
bleedingTNorange said:
I’m starting to question this, bracketing principles I’ve found say if a conference has more than 4 teams seeded in top 16 then you can have multiple in a region…not seen anything saying top 4 have to be in different regions.
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I pulled this from the criteria (Section III: Building the Bracket): Each of the first four teams selected from a conference shall be placed in different regions if they are seeded on the first four lines.

Right now that would be Auburn, Florida, Tennessee, and Alabama.
 
#286
#286
VolCalls said:
I pulled this from the criteria (Section III: Building the Bracket): Each of the first four teams selected from a conference shall be placed in different regions if they are seeded on the first four lines.

Right now that would be Auburn, Florida, Tennessee, and Alabama.
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For the Record On3 has us in the south bracket with Auburn. They also could be wrong
 
#287
#287
ok so its pretty clear we are not in control of the 1 seed anymore, but what happens if Ole Miss beats the breaks off of Florida, Alabama loses to Auburn and we win at South Carolina?

I think that gets us back to the 1 line, no?
 
#288
#288
VolCalls said:
I pulled this from the criteria (Section III: Building the Bracket): Each of the first four teams selected from a conference shall be placed in different regions if they are seeded on the first four lines.

Right now that would be Auburn, Florida, Tennessee, and Alabama.
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I think that with these larger conferences, you’re going to see some of these seeding principles relaxed a bit because bracketing is going to necessitate it. SEC may get 13 teams in. Probably not possible to adhere to every single principe with that many teams from one conference. Rules are made to be broken.
 
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#289
#289
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#290
#290
TheMookieMonster said:
I think that with these larger conferences, you’re going to see some of these seeding principles relaxed a bit because bracketing is going to necessitate it. SEC may get 13 teams in. Probably not possible to adhere to every single principe with that many teams from one conference. Rules are made to be broken.
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Possible, but not probable. This is a multi billion-dollar business operation. If they were to skirt the rules the media would call them out, as would conference commissioners. Not to mention the athletic directors who would be putting their careers on the line by participating in such shenanigans on a volunteer committee.

Something tells me by the tenor of your response you think this is one big conspiracy where the committee does what they want to favor certain teams or conferences - rules be damned, but that's your prerogative.

Here's the entire "Building the Bracket" section:

III. Building the Bracket​

Sixteen levels are established (i.e., the seeds, 1 through 16) in the bracket that cross the four regions, permitting evaluation of four teams simultaneously on the same level. Teams on each seed line (No. 1, No. 2, No. 3, etc.) should be as equal as possible.

Each region is divided into quadrants with four levels in each, permitting the evaluation of four different sections within each region against the same sections in each of the other regions.

The committee will assign all four teams in each bracket group (seeds 1, 16, 8, 9), (4, 13, 5, 12), (2, 15, 7, 10), (3, 14, 6, 11) to the same first-/second-round site. There will be two ”pods‟ at each first-/second-round site which may feed into different regional sites.

Each of the first four teams selected from a conference shall be placed in different regions if they are seeded on the first four lines.

Teams from the same conference shall not meet prior to the regional final if they played each other three or more times during the regular season and conference tournament.

Teams from the same conference shall not meet prior to the regional semifinals if they played each other twice during the regular season and conference tournament.


Teams from the same conference may play each other as early as the second round if they played no more than once during the regular season and conference tournament.

Any principle can be relaxed if two or more teams from the same conference are among the last four at-large seeded teams participating in the First Four.

To recognize the demonstrated quality of such teams, the committee shall not place teams seeded on the first four lines at a potential “home-crowd disadvantage” in the first round.

The last four at-large teams on the overall seed list, as well as teams seeded 65 through 68, will be paired to compete in the First Four games on Tuesday and Wednesday following the announcement of the field. (If allowed, the last at-large team on the seed list will be paired with the second-to-last at-large team on the seed list. The other First Four games will consist of the third-to-last at-large team on the seed list playing the fourth-to-last at-large team on the seed list, as well as seed 65 versus 66; and seed 67 versus 68).

The winners of the First Four games will advance to a first- and second-round site to be determined by the committee during selection weekend. In the event a First Four site is also a first- and second-round site, the winners of the First Four games may be assigned to that site, regardless of the days of competition.

Teams will remain in or as close to their areas of natural interest as possible, as determined by mileage from campus to the venue. A team moved out of its natural area will be placed in the next closest region to the extent possible. If two teams from the same natural region are in contention for the same bracket position, the team ranked higher in the seed list shall remain in its natural region.

A team will not be permitted to play in any facility in which it has played more than three games during its season, not including exhibitions and conference postseason tournaments.

A host institution’s team shall not be permitted to play at the site where the institution is hosting. However, the team may play on the same days when the institution is hosting.

Teams may play at a site where the conference of which it is a member is serving as the host.

A team may be moved up or down one (or in extraordinary circumstances) two lines from its true seed line (e.g., from the 13 seed line to the 12 seed line; or from a 12 seed line to a 13 seed line) when it is placed in the bracket if necessary to meet the principles.


Procedures for Placing the Teams into the Bracket

1. The committee will place the four No. 1 seeds in each of the four regions, thus determining the Final Four semifinals pairings (overall 1 vs. 4; 2 vs. 3). The overall No. 1 seed has the opportunity to select its preferred first- and second-round site and preferred region.

2. The committee will then place the No. 2 seeds in each region in true seed list order. The committee may relax the principle of keeping teams as close to their area of natural interest for seeding teams on the No. 2 line to avoid, for example, the overall No. 5 seed being sent to the same region as the overall No. 1 seed. The committee will not compromise the principle of keeping teams from the same conference in separate regions.

3. The committee will then place the No. 3 seeds in each region in true seed list order.

4. The committee will then place the No. 4 seeds in each region in true seed list order.

5. After the top four seed lines have been assigned, the committee will review the relative strengths of the regions by adding the “true seed” numbers in each region to determine if any severe numerical imbalance exists. Generally, no more than five points should separate the lowest and highest total.

6. In “true seed” order, the committee then assigns each team (and, therefore, all teams in its bracket group—e.g., seeds 1, 8, 9, 16) to first-/second-round sites.

7. The committee will then place seeds Nos. 5-16 in the bracket, per the principles. The four teams assigned to the seed line, 5 through 16, will have the same numerical value.

Additional Considerations

1. If possible, rematches of non-conference regular-season games should be avoided in the First Four and first round. As a secondary consideration, the committee will attempt to avoid potential rematches from non-conference regular-season games in the second round. The committee will not consider moving teams up or down its true seed line to avoid non-conference rematches.


2. If possible, after examining the previous two years’ brackets, teams will not be moved out of its natural region or geographic area an inordinate number of times.

3. If possible, rematches from the previous tournament should be avoided in the First Four and first round.
 
#291
#291
#292
#292
VolCalls said:
Possible, but not probable. This is a multi billion-dollar business operation. If they were to skirt the rules the media would call them out, as would conference commissioners. Not to mention the athletic directors who would be putting their careers on the line by participating in such shenanigans on a volunteer committee.

Something tells me by the tenor of your response you think this is one big conspiracy where the committee does what they want to favor certain teams or conferences - rules be damned, but that's your prerogative.

Here's the entire "Building the Bracket" section:

III. Building the Bracket​

Sixteen levels are established (i.e., the seeds, 1 through 16) in the bracket that cross the four regions, permitting evaluation of four teams simultaneously on the same level. Teams on each seed line (No. 1, No. 2, No. 3, etc.) should be as equal as possible.

Each region is divided into quadrants with four levels in each, permitting the evaluation of four different sections within each region against the same sections in each of the other regions.

The committee will assign all four teams in each bracket group (seeds 1, 16, 8, 9), (4, 13, 5, 12), (2, 15, 7, 10), (3, 14, 6, 11) to the same first-/second-round site. There will be two ”pods‟ at each first-/second-round site which may feed into different regional sites.

Each of the first four teams selected from a conference shall be placed in different regions if they are seeded on the first four lines.

Teams from the same conference shall not meet prior to the regional final if they played each other three or more times during the regular season and conference tournament.

Teams from the same conference shall not meet prior to the regional semifinals if they played each other twice during the regular season and conference tournament.


Teams from the same conference may play each other as early as the second round if they played no more than once during the regular season and conference tournament.

Any principle can be relaxed if two or more teams from the same conference are among the last four at-large seeded teams participating in the First Four.

To recognize the demonstrated quality of such teams, the committee shall not place teams seeded on the first four lines at a potential “home-crowd disadvantage” in the first round.

The last four at-large teams on the overall seed list, as well as teams seeded 65 through 68, will be paired to compete in the First Four games on Tuesday and Wednesday following the announcement of the field. (If allowed, the last at-large team on the seed list will be paired with the second-to-last at-large team on the seed list. The other First Four games will consist of the third-to-last at-large team on the seed list playing the fourth-to-last at-large team on the seed list, as well as seed 65 versus 66; and seed 67 versus 68).

The winners of the First Four games will advance to a first- and second-round site to be determined by the committee during selection weekend. In the event a First Four site is also a first- and second-round site, the winners of the First Four games may be assigned to that site, regardless of the days of competition.

Teams will remain in or as close to their areas of natural interest as possible, as determined by mileage from campus to the venue. A team moved out of its natural area will be placed in the next closest region to the extent possible. If two teams from the same natural region are in contention for the same bracket position, the team ranked higher in the seed list shall remain in its natural region.

A team will not be permitted to play in any facility in which it has played more than three games during its season, not including exhibitions and conference postseason tournaments.

A host institution’s team shall not be permitted to play at the site where the institution is hosting. However, the team may play on the same days when the institution is hosting.

Teams may play at a site where the conference of which it is a member is serving as the host.

A team may be moved up or down one (or in extraordinary circumstances) two lines from its true seed line (e.g., from the 13 seed line to the 12 seed line; or from a 12 seed line to a 13 seed line) when it is placed in the bracket if necessary to meet the principles.


Procedures for Placing the Teams into the Bracket

1. The committee will place the four No. 1 seeds in each of the four regions, thus determining the Final Four semifinals pairings (overall 1 vs. 4; 2 vs. 3). The overall No. 1 seed has the opportunity to select its preferred first- and second-round site and preferred region.

2. The committee will then place the No. 2 seeds in each region in true seed list order. The committee may relax the principle of keeping teams as close to their area of natural interest for seeding teams on the No. 2 line to avoid, for example, the overall No. 5 seed being sent to the same region as the overall No. 1 seed. The committee will not compromise the principle of keeping teams from the same conference in separate regions.

3. The committee will then place the No. 3 seeds in each region in true seed list order.

4. The committee will then place the No. 4 seeds in each region in true seed list order.

5. After the top four seed lines have been assigned, the committee will review the relative strengths of the regions by adding the “true seed” numbers in each region to determine if any severe numerical imbalance exists. Generally, no more than five points should separate the lowest and highest total.

6. In “true seed” order, the committee then assigns each team (and, therefore, all teams in its bracket group—e.g., seeds 1, 8, 9, 16) to first-/second-round sites.

7. The committee will then place seeds Nos. 5-16 in the bracket, per the principles. The four teams assigned to the seed line, 5 through 16, will have the same numerical value.

Additional Considerations

1. If possible, rematches of non-conference regular-season games should be avoided in the First Four and first round. As a secondary consideration, the committee will attempt to avoid potential rematches from non-conference regular-season games in the second round. The committee will not consider moving teams up or down its true seed line to avoid non-conference rematches.


2. If possible, after examining the previous two years’ brackets, teams will not be moved out of its natural region or geographic area an inordinate number of times.

3. If possible, rematches from the previous tournament should be avoided in the First Four and first round.
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glad you posted this, means that the UT-Vandy rematch in the 2nd round can not happen
 
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#293
#293
bleedingTNorange said:
Interesting, section lll of this link https://www.ncaa.com/sites/default/files/files/finalfourprinciples.pdf says if there’s more than 4 teams on 1-4 seed line then they can, idk
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Correct - there's no way around it since there are only four regions, but the first four SEC teams still have to be placed in four different regions. We want to be the second or third selected so we'll either be in the Midwest (as a #2 seed) or the West (as the final #1 seed). My point in sharing all of this is to show we cannot be in the South and it's highly unlikely we'll be in the East with Duke.
 
#294
#294
VolCalls said:
Possible, but not probable. This is a multi billion-dollar business operation. If they were to skirt the rules the media would call them out, as would conference commissioners. Not to mention the athletic directors who would be putting their careers on the line by participating in such shenanigans on a volunteer committee.

Something tells me by the tenor of your response you think this is one big conspiracy where the committee does what they want to favor certain teams or conferences - rules be damned, but that's your prerogative.

Here's the entire "Building the Bracket" section:

III. Building the Bracket​

Sixteen levels are established (i.e., the seeds, 1 through 16) in the bracket that cross the four regions, permitting evaluation of four teams simultaneously on the same level. Teams on each seed line (No. 1, No. 2, No. 3, etc.) should be as equal as possible.

Each region is divided into quadrants with four levels in each, permitting the evaluation of four different sections within each region against the same sections in each of the other regions.

The committee will assign all four teams in each bracket group (seeds 1, 16, 8, 9), (4, 13, 5, 12), (2, 15, 7, 10), (3, 14, 6, 11) to the same first-/second-round site. There will be two ”pods‟ at each first-/second-round site which may feed into different regional sites.

Each of the first four teams selected from a conference shall be placed in different regions if they are seeded on the first four lines.

Teams from the same conference shall not meet prior to the regional final if they played each other three or more times during the regular season and conference tournament.

Teams from the same conference shall not meet prior to the regional semifinals if they played each other twice during the regular season and conference tournament.


Teams from the same conference may play each other as early as the second round if they played no more than once during the regular season and conference tournament.

Any principle can be relaxed if two or more teams from the same conference are among the last four at-large seeded teams participating in the First Four.

To recognize the demonstrated quality of such teams, the committee shall not place teams seeded on the first four lines at a potential “home-crowd disadvantage” in the first round.

The last four at-large teams on the overall seed list, as well as teams seeded 65 through 68, will be paired to compete in the First Four games on Tuesday and Wednesday following the announcement of the field. (If allowed, the last at-large team on the seed list will be paired with the second-to-last at-large team on the seed list. The other First Four games will consist of the third-to-last at-large team on the seed list playing the fourth-to-last at-large team on the seed list, as well as seed 65 versus 66; and seed 67 versus 68).

The winners of the First Four games will advance to a first- and second-round site to be determined by the committee during selection weekend. In the event a First Four site is also a first- and second-round site, the winners of the First Four games may be assigned to that site, regardless of the days of competition.

Teams will remain in or as close to their areas of natural interest as possible, as determined by mileage from campus to the venue. A team moved out of its natural area will be placed in the next closest region to the extent possible. If two teams from the same natural region are in contention for the same bracket position, the team ranked higher in the seed list shall remain in its natural region.

A team will not be permitted to play in any facility in which it has played more than three games during its season, not including exhibitions and conference postseason tournaments.

A host institution’s team shall not be permitted to play at the site where the institution is hosting. However, the team may play on the same days when the institution is hosting.

Teams may play at a site where the conference of which it is a member is serving as the host.

A team may be moved up or down one (or in extraordinary circumstances) two lines from its true seed line (e.g., from the 13 seed line to the 12 seed line; or from a 12 seed line to a 13 seed line) when it is placed in the bracket if necessary to meet the principles.


Procedures for Placing the Teams into the Bracket

1. The committee will place the four No. 1 seeds in each of the four regions, thus determining the Final Four semifinals pairings (overall 1 vs. 4; 2 vs. 3). The overall No. 1 seed has the opportunity to select its preferred first- and second-round site and preferred region.

2. The committee will then place the No. 2 seeds in each region in true seed list order. The committee may relax the principle of keeping teams as close to their area of natural interest for seeding teams on the No. 2 line to avoid, for example, the overall No. 5 seed being sent to the same region as the overall No. 1 seed. The committee will not compromise the principle of keeping teams from the same conference in separate regions.

3. The committee will then place the No. 3 seeds in each region in true seed list order.

4. The committee will then place the No. 4 seeds in each region in true seed list order.

5. After the top four seed lines have been assigned, the committee will review the relative strengths of the regions by adding the “true seed” numbers in each region to determine if any severe numerical imbalance exists. Generally, no more than five points should separate the lowest and highest total.

6. In “true seed” order, the committee then assigns each team (and, therefore, all teams in its bracket group—e.g., seeds 1, 8, 9, 16) to first-/second-round sites.

7. The committee will then place seeds Nos. 5-16 in the bracket, per the principles. The four teams assigned to the seed line, 5 through 16, will have the same numerical value.

Additional Considerations

1. If possible, rematches of non-conference regular-season games should be avoided in the First Four and first round. As a secondary consideration, the committee will attempt to avoid potential rematches from non-conference regular-season games in the second round. The committee will not consider moving teams up or down its true seed line to avoid non-conference rematches.


2. If possible, after examining the previous two years’ brackets, teams will not be moved out of its natural region or geographic area an inordinate number of times.

3. If possible, rematches from the previous tournament should be avoided in the First Four and first round.
Click to expand...

I don’t think it’s a conspiracy. I think it’s simply that the bracketing principles you keep citing were written at a time before super conferences started being built. College athletics has completely changed in the past 2-4 years. And they are going to continue to change. If the Committee gets 13 teams in from a single conference, this will be unprecedented, so it seems fairly safe to say we don’t know how these principles will uphold or how the Committee will choose to apply them.
 
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#295
#295
TheMookieMonster said:
I don’t think it’s a conspiracy. I think it’s simply that the bracketing principles you keep citing were written at a time before super conferences started being built. College athletics has completely changed in the past 2-4 years. And they are going to continue to change. If the Committee gets 13 teams in from a single conference, this will be unprecedented, so it seems fairly safe to say we don’t know how these principles will uphold or how the Committee will choose to apply them.
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Fair enough. I think there are enough parameters to make sure they adhere as closely as possible to everything that’s laid out without breaking any rules.
 
#296
#296
barney said:
ok so its pretty clear we are not in control of the 1 seed anymore, but what happens if Ole Miss beats the breaks off of Florida, Alabama loses to Auburn and we win at South Carolina?

I think that gets us back to the 1 line, no?
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Yes. This will put some in a tizzy, but we MAY not be off the 1 line, since we have more Quad One wins and a better SOS than Florida. We’ll have to wait and see.
 
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#298
#298
bleedingTNorange said:
Lunardi has us at 5, ahead of Alabama which is nice, and says we’re right behind Florida. Suppose between Houston playing Baylor and Florida playing Ole Miss there’s still an outside shot of a 1.
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I think Ole Miss would have to beat them pretty bad (like 12-15 pts) for us to pass Florida up. Beating AU and Bama both away is pretty hard to do. I think what put us behind is the KY sweep.
 
#299
#299
bleedingTNorange said:
Lunardi has us at 5, ahead of Alabama which is nice, and says we’re right behind Florida. Suppose between Houston playing Baylor and Florida playing Ole Miss there’s still an outside shot of a 1.
Click to expand...
Of course there’s still a shot at a #1. We likely need help, but it’s not out of the question. Of course, if you ask some of the posters in the game thread last night they’ll think you’re trolling if you even bring it up.
 
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