I’ve no love lost for Rick Pitino the man, but my goodness

[JohnWardForever]

Not only any school would hire him but a CATHOLIC institution.

You would expect schools like Auburn and Ole Miss to hire any sleazebag like they did but for a highly regarded Catholic one ?

You been keeping up with the Catholics lately? For the last 20 years? Talk about scandals, OMG

 

[Volizona]

Rick Barnes agrees.. And there aren't another 99 that matter. It is so bush league. And it's not cool as some think. A college degree should enhance one's vocabulary. AND if you are going for effect, using it in every sentence (as Pitino did) negates what effect you were aiming for. It's just vulgar. I know I'm in the minority, but I'm happy to be there.

Agree very much. Unfortunately this seems to be the world we live in now. I feel it’s a sign of low class but it doesn’t s normalized today.

 

[Volizona]

Because of his modest demeanor and massive winning John Wooden was able to cultivate an aura of decency when the truth is he was coach and ring leader of one of the greatest cheating programs of all time. See Sam Gilbert. He was what Logan Young at Alabama hoped to be.

I wasn’t aware of this. Haven’t really read much about him.

 

[Volizona]

John Wooden? Wooden is one of the slimiest coaches in history. He had Sam Gilbert bankrolling his program for decades. Tony Bennett, Rick Majerus, and Bo Ryan are some of the guys who I think we’re about as clean as you can be.

Per the other post, I wasn’t aware of this at all. Will have to read more about Wooden. Scratch him off the list then.

 

[AthensVol2007]

I just don't get why it is so passe to use that language as the norm.. If you need to throw out F bombs, you have failed in your presentation. I'll take Coach Barnes.

Barnes stopped, it’s not as if he was always that way.

 

[AthensVol2007]

You been keeping up with the Catholics lately? For the last 20 years? Talk about scandals, OMG

This can be said about any denomination, the difference is they happen in individual, independent churches that aren’t governed as an institution; therefore it’s not publicized, nor is any other “denomination” as large and far reaching as the Catholic Church so it’s not as big of a story.

Does my Florida childhood Baptist preacher banging the church secretary constitute as a Baptist scandal? Or my parents Kentucky Baptist preacher convincing his wife she had Alzheimer’s and mental issues while taking her keys from her so she’s stuck at home while he has an affair and later divorcing her constitute as one?

 

[05_never_again]

This can be said about any denomination, the difference is they happen in individual, independent churches that aren’t governed as an institution; therefore it’s not publicized, nor is any other “denomination” as large and far reaching as the Catholic Church so it’s not as big of a story.

Does my Florida childhood Baptist preacher banging the church secretary constitute as a Baptist scandal? Or my parents Kentucky Baptist preacher convincing his wife she had Alzheimer’s and mental issues while taking her keys from her so she’s stuck at home while he has an affair and later divorcing her constitute as one?

To the degree that the broader institution is involved in a cover up, yes, the story is different. The Catholic Church is extremely hierarchical in a way that Baptist or other churches are not. There is a distinct chain of command, clergy overseeing other clergy, etc.. There were kids who were raped by a priest, and it turns out that his boss knew about it and did nothing, his boss's boss knew about it and did nothing, etc. That's a different story than something happening at one church and nobody else knowing.

There were sexual harassment allegations at the Southern Baptist Convention a few years ago that did get some press; the SBC is not an institution in the same way that the Catholic Church is (it is more like a co-op as opposed to a corporation), but it still got press.

 

[BowlBrother85]

John Wooden? Wooden is one of the slimiest coaches in history. He had Sam Gilbert bankrolling his program for decades. Tony Bennett, Rick Majerus, and Bo Ryan are some of the guys who I think we’re about as clean as you can be.

I would include CM Newton in that group as a coach with integrity as well. He left Alabama in 1980, for a position in the SEC league office, and then returned to coaching a year later, at Vanderbilt, where he knew he could keep boosters away from his players. Newton left Bama because he wanted to run a clean program more than he wanted to win.

You are right about John Wooden. His successor, Gene Bartow, sent a letter to the NCAA's committee on infractions chair, David Berst, thanking him for not investigating UCLA's basketball program in 1976, because he was afraid of what Sam Gilbert might do to him, if he cooperated with such an investigation. Gilbert had extensive mafia ties. Bartow literally thanked Berst for "saving his life."

 

[AthensVol2007]

To the degree that the broader institution is involved in a cover up, yes, the story is different. The Catholic Church is extremely hierarchical in a way that Baptist or other churches are not. There is a distinct chain of command, clergy overseeing other clergy, etc.. There were kids who were raped by a priest, and it turns out that his boss knew about it and did nothing, his boss's boss knew about it and did nothing, etc. That's a different story than something happening at one church and nobody else knowing.

There were sexual harassment allegations at the Southern Baptist Convention a few years ago that did get some press; the SBC is not an institution in the same way that the Catholic Church is (it is more like a co-op as opposed to a corporation), but it still got press.

I understand the hierarchy well, as I married into a Catholic family 14 years ago and consider myself one today without going through the formal process. But that’s my exact point, the SBC isn’t governed the same way so it’s just myriad of individual instances that totaled up are a black eye as well. And yes there have been coverups to protect the image and it’s one of the things that have held me back from making the official leap of confirmation. But like the Baptist’s (or any other denomination) these are bad individual actors with some bad accomplices in terms of the coverup. You won’t find a Catholic member, at least none that I’ve known, who will condone the church’s or local diocese’s handling of those types of situations. I was on the outside looking in for 25 years and painted the Catholic Church with the same broad brush of negativity that more times than not, non-Catholics do.

 

[05_never_again]

I understand the hierarchy well, as I married into a Catholic family 14 years ago and consider myself one today without going through the formal process. But that’s my exact point, the SBC isn’t governed the same way so it’s just myriad of individual instances that totaled up are a black eye as well. And yes there have been coverups to protect the image and it’s one of the things that have held me back from making the official leap of confirmation. But like the Baptist’s (or any other denomination) these are bad individual actors with some bad accomplices in terms of the coverup. You won’t find a Catholic member, at least none that I’ve known, who will condone the church’s or local diocese’s handling of those types of situations. I was on the outside looking in for 25 years and painted the Catholic Church with the same broad brush of negativity that more times than not, non-Catholics do.

I agree with all of that. I was just answering your question from the previous post, where you asked "Does my Florida childhood Baptist preacher banging the church secretary constitute as a Baptist scandal?" My answer was not in the same way as the Catholic Church sex abuse scandal, because in that case there was a cover-up that ran up the institutional hierarchy.

To the degree that the SBC harassment was known about and covered up by others in the organization, then that would constitute an "SBC scandal."

 

[AthensVol2007]

I agree with all of that. I was just answering your question from the previous post, where you asked "Does my Florida childhood Baptist preacher banging the church secretary constitute as a Baptist scandal?" My answer was not in the same way as the Catholic Church sex abuse scandal, because in that case there was a cover-up that ran up the institutional hierarchy.

To the degree that the SBC harassment was known about and covered up by others in the organization, then that would constitute an "SBC scandal."

The OP I responded to said scandals, I would argue every denomination on some level has had scandals and local church’s in situations have likely swept them under the rug/handled them quietly as to not raise local attention, lose members or tarnish images.

Not sure how either of these scenarios are much different if at all than what went on in the Catholic Church. Bad apples and power are never a good combo. Overall point is don’t throw stones and don’t generalize. We’d like to hope the goods unequivocally dwarf the bads.

Church apologizes for sexual misconduct | UMNews.org

The apology, part of a resolution passed in the last hour of General Conference, is to be offered in the spirit of offering healing for all affected.

www.umnews.org

 

[hUTch2002]

Rick Barnes agrees.. And there aren't another 99 that matter. It is so bush league. And it's not cool as some think. A college degree should enhance one's vocabulary. AND if you are going for effect, using it in every sentence (as Pitino did) negates what effect you were aiming for. It's just vulgar. I know I'm in the minority, but I'm happy to be there.

I certainly won’t claim to never use the word but I do make an effort not to do so and it was definitely unnecessary in Pitino’s speech. His passion and tone carried the message well enough and it was a great message.

 

[LittleCat]

This raises an interesting question. How many elite coaches in any sport (I mean cream of the crop, perennial champions) were actually high integrity, honest and even likeable. Probably only a handful. Someone like John Wooden? Pat Summit? The norm is more the sleazy, low character, immoral ones. They are a dime a dozen.

Wooden was the dirtiest coach by far of his era.

 

[wmcovol]

He is a great basketball coach. POS in the rest of his life.

 

[sami]

Great coaches just find a way to win in any sport. Always have and always will. Whatever he is as a human being, as a basketball coach there aren't too many in his class (for lack of a better word).

 

[05_never_again]

What makes him an a-hole in his personal life is probably at least partially responsible for what makes him such a great coach. That can be said for a lot of high-achieving people.

 

[stolitonic]

Per the other post, I wasn’t aware of this at all. Will have to read more about Wooden. Scratch him off the list then.

I remember quite a bit about this about 15 years ago when Wooden died.

The key word here is allegedly. UCLA got in trouble in the early 80s after Wooden retired. The booster co-signed/guaranteed a car for a player.

The insinuation being that this was going on when Wooden was there. Once again-allegedly is key here. I'm pretty remiss to try to tear someone down who has been dead for over a decade over allegations.

In the bitter end, it's been 50 years ago. Would any of our lives be any different if UCLA had NOT won a few of those championships? I think not.

While most people hated the movie Cobb with TL Jones and Robert Wuhl the last scene always struck a note with me. The gist of the scene was that sometimes people need heroes more than they need the full truth.

 

[Boston Vol]

In his second year he leads St. John’s to their first outright Big East regular season title in 40 years, then tops it off by winning their first Big East tournament in 25 years. The man is an absolute legend who on in the Mt. Rushmore of college coaches.

 

[volfanhill]

In his second year he leads St. John’s to their first outright Big East regular season title in 40 years, then tops it off by winning their first Big East tournament in 25 years. The man is an absolute legend who on in the Mt. Rushmore of college coaches.

He's a great coach but two natties doesn't get you on the Mt. Rushmore. It's not like he only coached a decade.

John Wooden: Won 10 national championships
Mike Krzyzewski: Won 5 national championships at Duke
Adolph Rupp: Won 4 national championships at Kentucky
Jim Calhoun: Won 3 national championships at UConn
Bob Knight: Won 3 national championships
Roy Williams: Won 3 national championships at North Carolina

That's 6 coaches. Which two you kicking off in favor of him?

 

[BowlBrother85]

I remember quite a bit about this about 15 years ago when Wooden died.

The key word here is allegedly. UCLA got in trouble in the early 80s after Wooden retired. The booster co-signed/guaranteed a car for a player.

The insinuation being that this was going on when Wooden was there. Once again-allegedly is key here. I'm pretty remiss to try to tear someone down who has been dead for over a decade over allegations.

In the bitter end, it's been 50 years ago. Would any of our lives be any different if UCLA had NOT won a few of those championships? I think not.

While most people hated the movie Cobb with TL Jones and Robert Wuhl the last scene always struck a note with me. The gist of the scene was that sometimes people need heroes more than they need the full truth.

They became a lot more than mere allegations when one of their best players from that era, Bill Walton, finally spoke up about it. Nobody needs a phony for a hero. There has never been a bigger phony than John Wooden.

The Incredibly Wild Story of FAU, the Most Improbable Final Four School. Ever.

Eminent Domain (!), a coach in handcuffs (!!), a top-secret Army base (!!!), biological warfare testing (?!). If you think you know the March Madness Cinderella archetype, think again. Florida Atlantic’s backstory is like nothing you’ve ever heard before.

www.esquire.com

From the article linked up above :

UCLA, 1964-75: Wooden's Little Helper

"If the UCLA teams of the late 1960s and early 1970s were subjected to the kind of scrutiny Jerry Tarkanian and his players have been, UCLA would probably have to forfeit about eight national titles and be on probation for the next 100 years."

Who would so slander UCLA, particularly during the era of saintly coach John Wooden? Their own legendary center, Bill Walton. Booster Sam Gilbert funneled so much money to players that NCAA probationary poster boy Jerry Tarkanian quipped, "The only team with a higher payroll was the Lakers." The NCAA didn't take action until 1981, by which point Wooden and his ten titles had been retired for six years.

 

[Boston Vol]

He's a great coach but two natties doesn't get you on the Mt. Rushmore. It's not like he only coached a decade.

John Wooden: Won 10 national championships
Mike Krzyzewski: Won 5 national championships at Duke
Adolph Rupp: Won 4 national championships at Kentucky
Jim Calhoun: Won 3 national championships at UConn
Bob Knight: Won 3 national championships
Roy Williams: Won 3 national championships at North Carolina

That's 6 coaches. Which two you kicking off in favor of him?

Rupp, Roy, and Calhoun.

 

[volfanhill]

Rupp, Roy, and Calhoun.

Agree with Roy. Your crazy with the others. They built those programs and won more than Rick. And there are a few 2 timers I left off. Dean Smith for example.

 

[BowlBrother85]

Agree with Roy. Your crazy with the others. They built those programs and won more than Rick. And there are a few 2 timers I left off. Dean Smith for example.

I would start at the top. Wooden's success should come with asterisks. He was coaching under a different set of rules than his peers were .... and there shouldn't be asterisks on Mount Rushmore.

 

[volfanhill]

I would start at the top. Wooden's success should come with asterisks. He was coaching under a different set of rules than his peers were .... and there shouldn't be asterisks on Mount Rushmore.

All speculation. Never been proven. And there is a ton of dirt associated with Rick. Let's not pretend he's cleaner than anyone else

On top of that Rick doesn't beat out Dean Smith. He's an all time great. Not on the mountain though

 

[BowlBrother85]

All speculation. Never been proven.

On top of that Rick doesn't beat out Dean Smith. He's an all time great. Not on the mountain

Wrong. Bill Walton wasn't speculating. He was a part of it.

.... and it was proven by the LA Times that Sam Gilbert paid for the girlfriend of Lucius Allen to have an abortion.

The only thing unproven, is how much did Wooden know and when did he know it.