DC Black Hawk vs Plane crash, Philly Crash. Malicious, or incompotence?

#1,053
#1,053
Vol737 said:
Just today was shooting an approach with parallel runways. We were landing on the right side, general aviation aircraft landing on the left. ATC called the traffic on downwind and we knew he was going to be turning base leg putting him 90 degrees off our left coming at us. Had him in sight and sure enough we got our TCAS TA (traffic advisory) at about 350 ft. I want to see the final report on this deal and see if the voice recorder picked up a TA in the RJ cockpit. TCAS will not give a command for corrective action below 1000 ft, but it’s possible they got the TA off the helo at 350.
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I train people to put this into more concise language to brief the AT VPs, FAA Adminstrator, and White House.

Translation: We was flying in, we saw a plane, TCAS went off, I lived to post on VN later.
 
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#1,056
#1,056
n_huffhines said:
I don't understand what you're saying

The pilot made a mistake by flying too high. The people in charge of everything didn't equip the Black Hawk with ADS-B technology, which could have prevented everything.

Trump blamed DEI*, and now Vance is trying to help Trump save face by saying people sometimes make mistakes because of the stress that other co-workers might be incompetent.

So that would mean the three white people on board and/or the people in charge of Black Hawk flight safety policies made mistakes because of the stress that comes with working with incompetent people, the implication being those stressful co-workers are minority hires.

So are you defending Trump and Vance?

*maybe this is the context you are missing?
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maybe the PILOT wasn't the best hire. which was the FIRST part of the quote. you are ignoring half of Vance's quote on only focusing on the stress portion. skipping over the whole part about not hiring the best people, which could have led to this mistake.

Vance hasn't displayed, to my knowledge, the same focus on DEI as Trump has. Yall, you and the quote, are conflating two different things and ignoring half of the quote. yall aren't starting from a place of good faith. I mean maybe there are other comments or information not included in your posting that adds more to the conversation, but as presented its not a good argument.
 
#1,057
#1,057
LouderVol said:
maybe the PILOT wasn't the best hire. which was the FIRST part of the quote. you are ignoring half of Vance's quote on only focusing on the stress portion. skipping over the whole part about not hiring the best people, which could have led to this mistake.

Vance hasn't displayed, to my knowledge, the same focus on DEI as Trump has. Yall, you and the quote, are conflating two different things and ignoring half of the quote. yall aren't starting from a place of good faith. I mean maybe there are other comments or information not included in your posting that adds more to the conversation, but as presented its not a good argument.
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I like you Louder, but half the ****ing time I have no idea what you're talking about. Can you share the part of the quote where he was talking about the pilot? Here is Fox News apparently starting from a place of bad faith. They are cutting off that part that you claim exists. At no point in the clip does he mention the pilot. He's talking about air traffic controllers. I can't Google what you're talking about.

www.foxbusiness.com

Trump has stopped America’s DEI ‘scandal,’ JD Vance says in exclusive interview | Fox Business Video

Vice President JD Vance sets the record straight with President Donald Trump’s approach to DEI and more during an appearance on ‘Sunday Morning Futures.’
www.foxbusiness.com www.foxbusiness.com

No mention of pilot here, either. Just air traffic control.

 
#1,058
#1,058
n_huffhines said:
I like you Louder, but half the ****ing time I have no idea what you're talking about. Can you share the part of the quote where he was talking about the pilot? Here is Fox News apparently starting from a place of bad faith. They are cutting off that part that you claim exists. At no point in the clip does he mention the pilot. He's talking about air traffic controllers. I can't Google what you're talking about.

www.foxbusiness.com

Trump has stopped America’s DEI ‘scandal,’ JD Vance says in exclusive interview | Fox Business Video

Vice President JD Vance sets the record straight with President Donald Trump’s approach to DEI and more during an appearance on ‘Sunday Morning Futures.’
www.foxbusiness.com www.foxbusiness.com

No mention of pilot here, either. Just air traffic control.

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if you wanted to talk about his whole speech, you should have provided that. instead you lead us down a limited conversation by quoting one part of a greater whole, and now you are confused about why we weren't discussing the whole when you only provided a piece of it.

I was responding to the quote you provided. I am not going to make assumptions and just bring any ole thing into the conversation that I might find relevant. its not a good discussion practice.

in the quote you provided, there was no distinction between ATC vs pilots vs joe blow sanitation.

if Vance's entire speech was about the ATC, then fine, its crap. but you should have started with that part of it so that anyone else could be on the same page.
 
#1,059
#1,059
LouderVol said:
if you wanted to talk about his whole speech, you should have provided that. instead you lead us down a limited conversation by quoting one part of a greater whole, and now you are confused about why we weren't discussing the whole when you only provided a piece of it.

I was responding to the quote you provided. I am not going to make assumptions and just bring any ole thing into the conversation that I might find relevant. its not a good discussion practice.

in the quote you provided, there was no distinction between ATC vs pilots vs joe blow sanitation.

if Vance's entire speech was about the ATC, then fine, its crap. but you should have started with that part of it so that anyone else could be on the same page.
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So it's my fault you were making a false argument about him talking about the pilot because I didn't provide full transcripts of every time he's talked about this? LOL
 
#1,060
#1,060
n_huffhines said:
So it's my fault you were making a false argument about him talking about the pilot because I didn't provide full transcripts of every time he's talked about this? LOL
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its your fault because you wanted to talk about one thing, but provided quotes on a second thing, and then got all self righteous when I replied to what you actually posted. Its my fault I made a bad assumption based on the different information you provided.

like I said, its not a good way to have a conversation.
 
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#1,061
#1,061
LouderVol said:
its your fault because you wanted to talk about one thing, but provided quotes on a second thing, and then got all self righteous when I replied to what you actually posted. Its my fault I made a bad assumption based on the different information you provided.

like I said, its not a good way to have a conversation.
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I posted a meme and then you started talking about pilots so I talked about pilots. I'll take 100% of the blame if we can just move on and stfu.
 
#1,063
#1,063
n_huffhines said:
I don't understand what you're saying

The pilot made a mistake by flying too high. The people in charge of everything didn't equip the Black Hawk with ADS-B technology, which could have prevented everything.

Trump blamed DEI*, and now Vance is trying to help Trump save face by saying people sometimes make mistakes because of the stress that other co-workers might be incompetent.

So that would mean the three white people on board and/or the people in charge of Black Hawk flight safety policies made mistakes because of the stress that comes with working with incompetent people, the implication being those stressful co-workers are minority hires.

So are you defending Trump and Vance?

*maybe this is the context you are missing?
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Blaming this incident on DEI is wrong. I do feel like having someone with such low flight hours train at night, with heavy air traffic, to be a leadership failure.

I do find it funny that people are going straight to white vs black when DEI is mentioned in this incident. Women of any race would fit under DEI here, it is a male dominated field.
 
#1,064
#1,064
UTFanForLife said:
Blaming this incident on DEI is wrong. I do feel like having someone with such low flight hours train at night, with heavy air traffic, to be a leadership failure.

I do find it funny that people are going straight to white vs black when DEI is mentioned in this incident. Women of any race would fit under DEI here, it is a male dominated field.
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Train like you fight, I see no problem with training in that environment. How that training led to the crash is the problem, how did the IP let this happen?
 
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#1,065
#1,065
hog88 said:
Train like you fight, I see no problem with training in that environment. How that training led to the crash is the problem, how did the IP let this happen?
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100% on that. I’m honestly commenting on something I have no clue about, not being from that world. Just feels like a lot of variables that have to be considered for someone who may not have been in that situation much. But I guess that’s why they have someone with them who has that experience supervising.
 
#1,066
#1,066
Nightly news just reported NTSB has stated the helo ADS-B was turned off. Based on what kind of training flight this was, VIP transport/evacuation, that isn’t unexpected as they would likely have ADS-B off if they had a VIP on board. But without that extra accuracy and precision on their position it’s easy to anticipate it contributed to the collision.
 
#1,068
#1,068
LouderVol said:
late reply @jwells

wheelchair access in stores, bathrooms, and even product placement are covered under ADA, and other associated laws. so no that's not DEI.

I have no clue about what is required with teaching, my only thought there is to avoid a lowest common denominator situation. if the learning of other students is negatively impacted by something its a negative, even if its to provide inclusion for others. I had two "inclusion" classes in HS, granted that was almost 2 decades ago and there may have been improvement, but the whole time I didn't learn anything while they catered to the special needs.

and to the last, I already said that yes, a straight white male could be a DEI hire. doesn't make it any less dumb.
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DEI isn't a rigid thing. It's literally just an acronym for Diversity, Equity, Inclusion.

ADA IS a way to work towards achieving those things. "DEI" simply asks...what else can we do to further this?

The idea that DEI is "didn't earn it" is brain rot nonsense. No business is hiring unqualified people to take a hit on profit or efficiency just so that can have a few non-white men.
 
#1,070
#1,070
jwells said:
DEI isn't a rigid thing. It's literally just an acronym for Diversity, Equity, Inclusion.

ADA IS a way to work towards achieving those things. "DEI" simply asks...what else can we do to further this?

The idea that DEI is "didn't earn it" is brain rot nonsense. No business is hiring unqualified people to take a hit on profit or efficiency just so that can have a few non-white men.
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A big problem with dei is it has no end goal. With whole departments devoted to it they're always going to be looking for something to justify their existence. Similar to the push where people had to be anti-racist since simply not being a racist wasn't good enough. If you're tasked with finding things then you'll do it or lose your job.
 
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#1,071
#1,071
jwells said:
DEI isn't a rigid thing. It's literally just an acronym for Diversity, Equity, Inclusion.

ADA IS a way to work towards achieving those things. "DEI" simply asks...what else can we do to further this?

The idea that DEI is "didn't earn it" is brain rot nonsense. No business is hiring unqualified people to take a hit on profit or efficiency just so that can have a few non-white men.
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I have dealt with several who fulfill that exact role. I know of a couple businesses with a whole department set up to do *something* but is just assumed as a complete loss, no actual expectations. I have some friends that I no longer respect because they took those exact jobs you claim to not exist, several changed the way they self identify for those jobs. I have been forced to work with companies whose whole existence is based on the principle of being the token minority on a government project that requires X level of minority participation, and do literally nothing else.

its not the majority, buts its not a small enough minority to be ignored. it started out as a noble enough initiative but it got corrupted with a quickness to be something that I think is counterproductive to what its original goals were.
 
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#1,072
#1,072
LouderVol said:
I have dealt with several who fulfill that exact role. I know of a couple businesses with a whole department set up to do *something* but is just assumed as a complete loss, no actual expectations. I have some friends that I no longer respect because they took those exact jobs you claim to not exist, several changed the way they self identify for those jobs. I have been forced to work with companies whose whole existence is based on the principle of being the token minority on a government project that requires X level of minority participation, and do literally nothing else.

its not the majority, buts its not a small enough minority to be ignored. it started out as a noble enough initiative but it got corrupted with a quickness to be something that I think is counterproductive to what its original goals were.
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i.e., the entire 8(a) and Native-Owned business programs.
 
#1,075
#1,075
ButchPlz said:
Until we start looking at what our rules and regulations actually incentivize instead of just focusing on intent we'll always be screwed up.
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Had a job in TX replacing some leaking tanks at a truck stop, tanks were in the back corner of the property well away from anywhere a customer would access the store or shop. Had to get an ADA access inspection before we could start to make sure we wouldn't be impeding handicap access to the facility. Cost $600 and a 2 week delay waiting on an inspector.
 
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