War in Ukraine

#79,851
#79,851
McDad said:
Ok. Not an unreasonable way of thinking about it retrospectively.

But we didn't buy them. We negotiated this agreement we've been discussing for two days. Right?
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No. We and Russia provided monies in the exchange (maybe the UK also don’t really know). Russia accepted fissile material they could directly utilize in their current reactors. We took possession of the remainder and reprocessed it at Oak Ridge I believe. That is my understanding anyway
 
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#79,852
#79,852
NorthDallas40 said:
No. We and Russia provided monies in the exchange (maybe the UK also don’t really know). Russia accepted fissile material they could directly utilize in their current reactors. We took possession of the remainder and reprocessed it at Oak Ridge I believe. That is my understanding anyway
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It all went back to Russia.
 
#79,854
#79,854
NorthDallas40 said:
No ham sammich you are not right again. Part of the material was reprocessed in the US.
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Do you ever get tired of being wrong? Are you going to argue about the definition of "all"?

In 1992, Ukraine signed the Lisbon Protocol and it joined the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty as a non-nuclear weapon state in 1994. The transfer of all nuclear material took some time, but by 2001, all nuclear weapons had been transferred to Russia to be dismantled and all launch silos decommissioned.
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Did Ukraine give up nuclear weapons?
 
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#79,855
#79,855
hog88 said:
Do you ever get tired of being wrong? Are you going to argue about the definition of "all"?



Did Ukraine give up nuclear weapons?
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I actually went and googled it again as I remembered reading somewhere Oak Ridge was directly involved in the reprocessing. Admittedly that may not of been the original transfer point for the initial move of the material. You could very well be not wrong in your assertion here but with your horrible record thus far I just can’t see it 😂
 
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#79,856
#79,856
NorthDallas40 said:
I actually went and googled it again as I remembered reading somewhere Oak Ridge was directly involved in the reprocessing. Admittedly that may not of been the original transfer point for the initial move of the material. You could very well be not wrong in your assertion here but with your horrible record thus far I just can’t see it 😂
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Uh huh.
 
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#79,858
#79,858
NorthDallas40 said:
It seems pretty clear the first destination out of Ukraine for all the fissile material was Russia. My own Google results turned that up and I can’t find the Oak Ridge assertion right now.
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Because it isn't there. Much like most of the things you claim are in the Budapest memorandum.....
 
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#79,859
#79,859
hog88 said:
Because it isn't there.
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There is no dichotomy here ham sammich. The material could have wound up in Oak Ridge for conversion to LEU suitable for reactors from HEU used in the war heads while at the same time having transited vis Russia. It’s pretty clear all parties viewed getting the material under positive control of a responsible party ASAP was paramount.
 
#79,860
#79,860
NorthDallas40 said:
No. We and Russia provided monies in the exchange (maybe the UK also don’t really know). Russia accepted fissile material they could directly utilize in their current reactors. We took possession of the remainder and reprocessed it at Oak Ridge I believe. That is my understanding anyway
Click to expand...
If i am tracking with your thought process, even though we paid for the nuclear weapons, Ukraine didn't get fair market value (or a value on par with what they gave up) so we are STILL obligated to provide aid in the horrendously written agreement?
 
#79,861
#79,861
NorthDallas40 said:
I actually went and googled it again as I remembered reading somewhere Oak Ridge was directly involved in the reprocessing. Admittedly that may not of been the original transfer point for the initial move of the material. You could very well be not wrong in your assertion here but with your horrible record thus far I just can’t see it 😂
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That's a fair way to look at what hog shares. he's frequently wrong. sometimes he is not wrong. But he is never right.
 
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#79,862
#79,862
McDad said:
If i am tracking with your thought process, even though we paid for the nuclear weapons, Ukraine didn't get fair market value (or a value on par with what they gave up) so we are STILL obligated to provide aid in the horrendously written agreement?
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Oh I wouldn’t affirm that I’ve connected all of those dots to that degree but as I have said at the moment we signed up for a bill we thought would never come due. That’s it. And once again by our own response we seem to believe we have some other extended level of obligation 🤷‍♂️
 
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#79,865
#79,865
NorthDallas40 said:
Oh I wouldn’t affirm that I’ve connected all of those dots to that degree but as I have said at the moment we signed up for a bill we thought would never come due. That’s it. And once again by our own response we seem to believe we have some other extended level of obligation 🤷‍♂️
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To be clear, I don't think we have any extended level of obligation. As I read it, I am more on Hog's page than not. I mean the agreement is horribly written but what we are expected to do seem sketched out enough to me.

But Uncle Sam, or more precisely those governing Sam's movements, loves to stick his nose in other people's business.
 
#79,867
#79,867
The fate of the Nuclear weapons seems very off topic and in theory, both hog and NorthDallas could be correct.

Russia got all the Ukrainian nukes but they could have sold them to USA or others to help with dismantling. Russia wasn't aggressive at that time. They had Yeltsein as President and were not a threat.
 
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#79,868
#79,868
hog88 said:
Because it isn't there. Much like most of the things you claim are in the Budapest memorandum.....
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...and I thought hog was trying to be more mature.

Should have known the knife would twist eventually.
 
#79,869
#79,869
NorthDallas40 said:
There is no dichotomy here ham sammich. The material could have wound up in Oak Ridge for conversion to LEU suitable for reactors from HEU used in the war heads while at the same time having transited vis Russia. It’s pretty clear all parties viewed getting the material under positive control of a responsible party ASAP was paramount.
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The first rule when you find yourself in a hole is, stop digging.
 
#79,870
#79,870
McDad said:
To be clear, I don't think we have any extended level of obligation. As I read it, I am more on Hog's page than not. I mean the agreement is horribly written but what we are expected to do seem sketched out enough to me.

But Uncle Sam, or more precisely those governing Sam's movements, loves to stick his nose in other people's business.
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Oh I understand that. And that’s fine. My wish is we’d never entered this abhorrent agreement in the first place and due to lack of definition we are across the spectrum … nay continuum 😳… on our own inferences. Working as intended I’d say from the drafters 🤷‍♂️
 
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#79,871
#79,871
NorthDallas40 said:
Oh I understand that. And that’s fine. My wish is we’d never entered this abhorrent agreement in the first place and due to lack of definition we are across the spectrum … nay continuum 😳… on our own inferences. Working as intended I’d say from the drafters 🤷‍♂️
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Please don't use "continuum".

It gives me PTSD.
 
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#79,872
#79,872
McDad said:
The first rule when you find yourself in a hole is, stop digging.
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Eh I’ve conceded he was not wrong on his assertion that they wound up in Russia. I’m merely stating that from my own reading that isn’t necessarily the final destination for all the material. I did read the Oak Ridge connection at some point just can’t find it now.
 
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#79,875
#79,875
I just realized, we have geeked out and nerded all over this thread for almost 4 pages.

The usual posters here are waiting for us to stop LARPING in their park before they return to play games and have fun.
 
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