War in Ukraine

#79,751
#79,751
MontyPython said:
In times of national war, sometimes we sacrifice personal rights. It's reality, not my concern. I know your political slant abhors that.
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I know this will come across as radical but where in the Constitution/BoR which affirms and protects our rights, does it say our rights are revocable in times of national war besides Quartering of soldiers?
 
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#79,754
#79,754
McDad said:
I don't even know why that's a big deal. Whether you use assurances or guarantees, it looks like all we have assured or guaranteed is that we respect their borders and if there's a threat we will get the UN Security Council to take action.

I don't know what else I'm supposed to read in there. Now the phrases "commitment to Ukraine" and the phrase that nd40 referenced are not defined...but those involving our aid or help seems a stretch to me.
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There are plenty of legalese writings on the implication of using guarantee. Which is why the US delegation was hard over against it. If they felt it wasn’t a big deal they would have given in since Ukraine parliament dictated that usage.
 
#79,755
#79,755
hog88 said:
I think different people read into what they want to read into for various reasons. If I were employed in the defense industry or if I was hyper partisan and thought our aid was good for my party I might read it differently than I do. Kind of like science, gotta look at who’s signing the check to see where the results come from.
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Lol. You really job shaming me too man? 😂

As we’ve said before to each other either our word is worth something or it isn’t.
 
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#79,756
#79,756
MontyPython said:
In times of national emergency, sometimes we sacrifice personal rights. It's reality, not my concern. Kind of like post 911 TSA security. Your personal rights are "comprimised".

I recognize your political slant abhors that.
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And your willingness to submit puzzles me.
 
#79,757
#79,757
hog88 said:
And your willingness to submit puzzles me.
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I try to put the "collective good" before me.

For most people, restraining one's egocentric natural tendencies is learned as an adolescent or young adult.

Libertarians on the other hand...

uylohB.gif
 
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#79,759
#79,759
MontyPython said:
I try to put the "collective good" before me.

For most people, restraining one's egocentric natural tendencies is learned as an adolescent or young adult.

Libertarians on the other hand...

View attachment 647680
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Yea I saw how things were approached "for the collective good" during the Covid "national emergency." That thought process can go F itself
 
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#79,762
#79,762
t.me

Slavyangrad

The British analyst, without any irony, said that Ukraine is doing the right thing by mobilizing older men. After all, the older a person is, the more difficult it is for him to escape from the battlefield. Defense and security analyst Nicholas Drummond expressed this opinion to his entire...
t.me t.me

 
#79,763
#79,763
MontyPython said:
Forthcoming F16s for Ukraine... where will they be stationed? In Ukraine? In a neighboring ally country like Romania? Would Russia bomb these F16s if they're stationed in Romania, but fly anti-aircraft sorties in Ukraine? They're gonna be HVTs.

Seems like the latter may make sense, as Russia would risk WW3 w/NATO if they retaliate on aircraft outside of Ukraine.
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Answer...

Ukraine to station part of new F-16 fleet at allied air bases for protection from Russian strikes​

 
#79,764
#79,764
Rasputin_Vol said:
t.me

Slavyangrad

The British analyst, without any irony, said that Ukraine is doing the right thing by mobilizing older men. After all, the older a person is, the more difficult it is for him to escape from the battlefield. Defense and security analyst Nicholas Drummond expressed this opinion to his entire...
t.me t.me

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Ukrainians "fight to the death" then "make themselves a cup of coffee".

Usually I just bump into stuff and step on dog toys before coffee, not die.
 
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#79,765
#79,765
McDad said:
I know this will come across as radical but where in the Constitution/BoR which affirms and protects our rights, does it say our rights are revocable in times of national war besides Quartering of soldiers?
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Heh. Let's go ahead and jump down the "Lincoln tyrant" rabbit hole. The converse to your question is equally valid, and in practice has proven true repeatedly in our nation's history.
 
#79,767
#79,767
hog88 said:
Subjugating and stripping rights from people is never good for the collective.
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Wrong. Stripping your right to enter a movie theater and yell FIRE is absolutely good for the collective... [continue with list of umpteen zillion simple rules guiding our lives from seatbelts, speed limits, felons/guns, etc].
 
#79,768
#79,768
MontyPython said:
Heh. Let's go ahead and jump down the "Lincoln tyrant" rabbit hole. The converse to your question is equally valid, and in practice has proven true repeatedly in our nation's history.
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You could've simply said there is no such provision in either document. There is only bad precedent.
The irony is the document is modifiable so that bad precedent can become an amendment.
 
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#79,769
#79,769
MontyPython said:
Ukrainians "fight to the death" then "make themselves a cup of coffee".

Usually I just bump into stuff and step on dog toys before coffee, not die.
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Maybe no coffee makes them angrier, meaner, and more brutal killing machines. McRib sans coffee could take out a squad of special forces.
 
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#79,771
#79,771
NorthDallas40 said:
There are plenty of legalese writings on the implication of using guarantee. Which is why the US delegation was hard over against it. If they felt it wasn’t a big deal they would have given in since Ukraine parliament dictated that usage.
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I feel like everyone discussing this stuff knows something that I don't know. So if you (or anyone reading this thread) don't mind, walk me through this as if I'm brand new to the English language.

In that memorandum section, there are phrases which are not defined and can be interpreted many different ways. There's also reference to pre-existing principles agreed to at an earlier date. Setting those aside for a moment and looking at the rest of that section,
exactly what has the US guaranteed or assured?
 
#79,772
#79,772
MontyPython said:
Security screenings have become less invasive and easier. Emergency triggered them, and (most people) recognize that their benefits outweigh their costs.
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We had security screenings pre 9/11 but pocket knives and box cutters were all allowed. We didn’t need the creation of an entirely new federal agency they just needed to add knives and box cutters to the prohibited list.
 
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#79,773
#79,773
MontyPython said:
Security screenings have become less invasive and easier. Emergency triggered them, and (most people) recognize that their benefits outweigh their costs.
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TSA is and has always been a worthless org putting on security theater. They're barely a step up from a turnstile. Most people realize this

Not just my opinion but it's also shared by fed law enforcement I've talked with.
 
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#79,774
#79,774
MontyPython said:
Wrong. Stripping your right to enter a movie theater and yell FIRE is absolutely good for the collective... [continue with list of umpteen zillion simple rules guiding our lives from seatbelts, speed limits, felons/guns, etc].
Click to expand...

The yell fire in the theater argument is the dumbest ever. The BoRs never included the right to hurt or damage others.
 
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