War in Ukraine

[NorthDallas40]

It is the entire agreement in all languages. What is applicable to this discussion starts on page 192.

This is the agreement. Only these pages. And yes in all three pages. Again your link is their whole library from some time period read the first few pages it’s a TOC of all the items received.

https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/UNTS/Volume%203007/Part/volume-3007-I-52241.pdf

 

[NorthDallas40]

Sorry bro but you done lived there too long. Yous a Texican.

I have dual citizenship. And you’re still not right.

 

[whodeycin85]

Naive post of the day. Grats.

Did zelensky ban another politician party to run against him?

 

[hog88]

This is the agreement. Only these pages. And yes in all three pages. Again your link is their whole library from some time period read the first few pages it’s a TOC of all the items received.

https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/UNTS/Volume%203007/Part/volume-3007-I-52241.pdf

That is pages 192 - 205 of what I linked.

Say you are a Texan without saying you are a Texan.

 

[NorthDallas40]

That is pages 192 - 205 of what I linked.

Say you are a Texan without saying you are a Texan.

Thank you for admitting that my original link was the only link that matters as it contained only the material relevant to this discussion

 

[McDad]

That is pages 192 - 205 of what I linked.

Say you are a Texan without saying you are a Texan.

Forgive him, he's retired and old and he gets confused easily... plus he lives in Texas where it's too hot to do anything... including think

 

[McDad]

Thank you for admitting that my original link was the only link that matters as it contained only the material relevant to this discussion

Forgive him, he loses weapons in a flood and is so insignificant his wife leaves him behind at stores while shopping and goes back home by herself... Plus he just recently recovered from some crotch rot.

 

[BeardedVol]

I now understand better why you couldn't answer what I thought were simple questions about the agreement.

If you can find a metric stated in the agreement, that can be measured otherwise, I'll be more than happy to consider it.

 

[hog88]

Forgive him, he loses weapons in a flood and is so insignificant his wife leaves him behind at stores while shopping and goes back home by herself... Plus he just recently recovered from some crotch rot.

Poison Ivy on the junk is no laughing matter. I think I have PTSD from it.

 

[NorthDallas40]

Forgive him, he's retired and old and he gets confused easily... plus he lives in Texas where it's too hot to do anything including think

Me?! That thick headed ham sammich on the hoof is wrong and you know it! He claimed the doc was “hundreds of pages” FFS it’s 16 pages for all three languages including the damn cover sheet!

Let that sink in. The entire document in three individual languages outlining the dissolution of the world’s third largest nuclear weapons stockpile is less than 20 pages. It’s a POS doc. But it was signed by all the heads of state!

 

[hog88]

Me?! That thick headed ham sammich on the hoof is wrong and you know it! He claimed the doc was “hundreds of pages” FFS it’s 16 pages for all three languages including the damn cover sheet!

Let that sink in. The entire document in three individual languages outlining the dissolution of the world’s third largest nuclear weapons stockpile is less than 20 pages. It’s a POS doc. But it was signed by all the heads of state!

The actual agreement covers a crap ton more than those pages.

 

[NorthDallas40]

The actual agreement covers a crap ton more than those pages.

No

Not in writing! Remember?

 

[hog88]

If you can find a metric stated in the agreement, that can be measured otherwise, I'll be more than happy to consider it.

You must have missed this.

Even if that requires US troops on the ground fighting?

 

[McDad]

It's getting spicy up in herr

 

[BeardedVol]

You must have missed this.

You read that as a metric in the Budapest memorandum?

 

[BeardedVol]

'Russian red lines' have surpassed 'China's final warnings'

 

[hog88]

You read that as a metric in the Budapest memorandum?

Sorry. I'll be more clear. My question is in reference to this post from you. Particularly the bolded part.

Does that include US troops on the ground fighting if need be?

The agreement was that we will uphold Ukraine's sovereignty, and they will destroy their long range missiles and bombers, and give fissile materials to Russia.

That sovereignty has been compromised for a decade now, and we didn't start providing aid until two years ago. My assumption would be that until their sovereignty is restored to the level it existed when the document was signed, we'd be obligated to support them.

 

[NorthDallas40]

It's getting spicy up in herr

It’s actually the most meaningful discussion of what the framework of commitments if any exist are that has happened in here in quite a while.

My own feelings are we really weren’t an honest broker in executing that document because we really thought nobody would come waving it in our faces. But as that link I gave you shows Ukraine absolutely felt “guarantees” were made.

 

[MontyPython]

Did zelensky ban another politician party to run against him?

Eisenhower banned the Communist party... and we weren't at war.

 

[hog88]

Eisenhower banned the Communist party... and we weren't at war.

And was later ruled unconstitutional.

 

[MontyPython]

And was later ruled unconstitutional.

Agreed. Communism is unconstitutional.

 

[BeardedVol]

Sorry. I'll be more clear. My question is in reference to this post from you. Particularly the bolded part.

Does that include US troops on the ground fighting if need be?

I don't think the Budapest Memorandum precludes the use of US soldiers to maintain the sovereignty of Ukraine. It was vaguely written by design, leaving open the possibility for that specific purpose: to be ambiguous. Unfortunately it was written at a time when everyone though Russia would was moving toward democracy and that the Budapest Memorandum would never be called to task.

As to whether a sitting President would choose to exercise such forces, I don't see any president of either party wagering that sort of political capital for Ukraine, so you can stop wringing your hands.

 

[hog88]

Agreed. Communism is unconstitutional.

The communist control act Ike signed was ruled unconstitutional.

 

[hog88]

I don't think the Budapest Memorandum precludes the use of US soldiers to maintain the sovereignty of Ukraine. It was vaguely written by design, leaving open the possibility for that specific purpose: to be ambiguous. Unfortunately it was written at a time when everyone though Russia would was moving toward democracy and that the Budapest Memorandum would never be called to task.

As to whether a sitting President would choose to exercise such forces, I don't see any president of either party wagering that sort of political capital for Ukraine, so you can stop wringing your hands.

Nice non answer.

 

[McDad]

It’s actually the most meaningful discussion of what the framework of commitments if any exist are that has happened in here in quite a while.

My own feelings are we really weren’t an honest broker in executing that document because we really thought nobody would come waving it in our faces. But as that link I gave you shows Ukraine absolutely felt “guarantees” were made.

@hog88 @BeardedVol

I read the pages hog linked. There isn't anything referencing aid. Nothing about timelines. And nothing about the US or other signers providing anything other than getting the UN Security Council involved.