Recruiting Football Talk VII

[mrMet]

Go early. It's kind of a small place


*GREEN TABASCO

The best kind of place

 

[Orange_Crush]

Oh there is a big difference between God-given intelligence and wisdom, knowledge, education, those are all smarts.

I'm not arguing with you one way or the other. My only point will be that language matters. "Dumb" is literally an antonym to "Intelligent". "Dumber" literally means "less intelligent". Go all in per dissecting how to measure "intelligence", but it literally means "less dumb" and vice versa.

Perhaps the vocabulary you intend is a distinction between ignorance and intellect? You can be intelligent yet unlearned, and you can be a very educated moron. But at the end of the day, "Dumber" means "less intelligent".

 

[Orange_Crush]

Are you accusing me of being a communist???!!

I would never dare to call you a communist. That would just be mean.

I just figure you probably put a little weight on after you ate all those Russian kids on that mountain that time...

 

[Glitch]

Just because you don’t have a good food palette doesn’t mean I don’t!

Can't get past the texture or the look.

 

[Glitch]

There's a really solid endorsement.

 

[TheRain]

 

[mrMet]

Can't get past the texture or the look.

I can’t fault you. I also go cracker, horseradish, oyster, hot sauce to balance it out. If the oyster is too big, I can’t do it

 

[Glitch]

 

[Glitch]

I can’t fault you. I also go cracker, horseradish, oyster, hot sauce to balance it out. If the oyster is too big, I can’t do it

 

[LaagerVol]

I wasn't insulting anyone. I was making a general statement about society, sorry that was not clear. Everyone has personal preferences and I understand baseball isn't for everyone nor is football (ask my momma). I was just saying that society in general has become too dumb and desensitized for baseball. If you don't think society has gotten a lot dumber, I will die on that hill, average people of a hundred years ago would be considered genius today.
And I doubt you could find a history book that I would find boring, I am usually reading three books (depending on what room I am in) at a time and currently one is the six volume history of WWII by Winston Churchill. I am a math/science man by trade but history is one of my loves.

I totally agree that society is getting dumber, rapidly. The thought that there is some correlation between one’s intelligence and their level of interest in baseball is absurd though. I didn’t watch much baseball when I was growing up, and I can promise you it wasn’t because I had too much technology at my disposal, or I was over-stimulated. We didn’t even have cable television. I spent most of my time outdoors. I liked playing, just didn’t like watching as much, unless, as soda said, there was a team I was interested in.

I see baseball fans make this argument all the time and it just isn’t true. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to understand baseball.

 

[LaagerVol]

Baseball lost out to football and basketball because it's simply not as entertaining.

I dont see how baseball is all that complex either? It's slow moving, doesn't display near the athleticism of the other too, isn't as complex as football and is on par with basketball for complexity.

You can leave a baseball game for an hour and the score stays the same. Has nothing to do with people being less educated. It's been surpassed for good reason.

This^^^^^

The notion that many hardcore baseball fans have that it takes some sort of savant to understand the extreme complexities and nuances of the game of baseball is kinda weird.

 

[knoxvol52]

How are his locker room cleanliness stats?

The stats guys know the answer, maybe one of them will post the answer to your question.

 

[LaagerVol]

I have coached both baseball and football for years and love both dearly. I have witnessed first hand the dying of baseball. In football you can take an athlete with no experience and find somewhere to plug them in and they can have success. You can watch football and be entertained with little or no understanding of the game (there are many object lessons on VN that will attest to that fact). That is not true of baseball.
I can't tell you how many times, in baseball, a player who hasn't played for a while comes out and they look foolish. Unless the competition is very low, but they ain't gonna cut it on a state caliber or highly competitive team, there is too much to know. There is nowhere to hide in baseball, everyone comes to bat. Experience and knowledge of the game is massively important.
I submit Michael Jordan as exhibit #1. One of the greatest athletes to ever walk the planet and arguably the best basketball player of all time (morans please don't go there). He sucked in his foray into professional baseball. I mean as an old man I could have hit better than him in AA.
Baseball can make athletes look like idiots

So MJ wasn’t good at baseball because he wasn’t smart enough to understand the game???

 

[rikberry31]

But almost all of the complexity is handled by the manager putting his chess pieces into position. The complexity of basketball and football and the mental processing speed required by players is much higher than baseball.

I'll agree the managers in baseball are freaking geniuses, but the most people don't get entertainment out of managers playing chess anymore than watching chess players playing chess. Watching a qb or a point guard analyze the defense, find its weak points, and have all the other players execute to attack the weak point all in a few seconds is far more mentally impressive and entertaining than watching a pitcher throw a change up on a 3-2 count while the other 8 players don't even move because a manager gave him the signal to throw it.

"But almost all of the complexity is handled by the manager putting his chess pieces into position. The complexity of basketball and football and the mental processing speed required by players is much higher than baseball."

This is not true. In baseball the manager has very little control over much of the game. Players must make split second decisions and judgements with no input from the manager, that's most of the game. Football is a much more scripted than baseball, most the decisions are made on the fly and on the spot. Most veteran big league catchers are calling the game not the manager or pitching coach.
Personally there was three year stretch where I never even suggested a pitch much less called the game.
One time I had a reporter ask me if I was stealing signs because on of my players was running on a curveball every time. I told him that maybe he was but I hadn't given that boy a sign in two years, he just knew what to do.

 

[LaagerVol]

I would challenge the assertion that the average person 100 years ago would be a "genius" today. Firstly, you have no sources to back that up. Secondly, it's false.

Let me introduce to you the "Flynn Effect."

James Flynn invented the standardized IQ tests 100 years ago. Researchers have been testing people all over the world since. What they've documented is that every generation worldwide has scored higher on average than the generation before it. Today's average person would be considered a genius 100 years ago... literally. The worldwide IQ is more than 30 points higher today, on average, than it was in 1920.

The caveat is that since 1975, the developed world (US, Europe, and some Asian countries) has slowed down, and recently some countries have declined slightly in average IQ. Norway started leveling off in the late 60s with ups and downs from year to year. American tests dropped for this first time around 2005, but only a fraction of a point. But still LEAGUES above 100 years ago. Meanwhile, developing countries' IQs are still climbing at a rapid rate today due to technological advancements, improved nutrition, better educational opportunities etc.

People interest or disinterest in baseball has nothing to do with intelligence. You could argue it has to do with attention span, something that is getting shorter on average for Americans due to modern technology and social media. Or you could also argue it's because the horrible umping, unwritten "rules," and crusade against anything fun among other things. You could say the game isn't evolving with the interests and entertainment preferences of modern America at a rapid enough pace. Still wildly popular, so I don't see it getting to the point of NASCAR, but something has to change.

I can say with certainty that common sense has fallen off a cliff. Lots of people can have a high IQ and not have enough cents to pay attention.

 

[SoilVol]

I can say with certainty that common sense has fallen off a cliff. Lots of people can have a high IQ and not have enough cents to pay attention.

Can't debate that. Could be true and I kind of agree but also hard to quantify and subjective. I also wonder if that's just one of those things where we always see those younger than us as having no common sense. And really its because they're just younger and we also "ain't had no cents" when we were young.

But going back to how this came up - common sense, or lack thereof, surely has no bearing on one's interest in baseball.

 

[SoilVol]

Resident snake experts, what do you make or this? I think baby snakes are being made right outside my dining room window. Kill ‘em or nah?

View attachment 635214

These are Eastern black kingsnakes (Lampropeltis nigra). They're participating in one of the 3 F's of survival: Feeding, Fighting, or Reproducing. Tough to tell from this pic which it is. They could actually be trying to eat each other as kings are snake-eaters. It could be two males in a territorial dispute.

 

[SugarCC]

RIP Dickey Betts

 

[rikberry31]

I totally agree that society is getting dumber, rapidly. The thought that there is some correlation between one’s intelligence and their level of interest in baseball is absurd though. I didn’t watch much baseball when I was growing up, and I can promise you it wasn’t because I had too much technology at my disposal, or I was over-stimulated. We didn’t even have cable television. I spent most of my time outdoors. I liked playing, just didn’t like watching as much, unless, as soda said, there was a team I was interested in.

I see baseball fans make this argument all the time and it just isn’t true. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to understand baseball.

As I stated earlier, I made a distinction between intelligence and smarts. There are plenty of intelligent people who don't like baseball who understand the game. There are also plenty of intelligent people who are ignorant and make ignorant statements about the game. Like the baseball manager was making all the decisions and the football players were more in charge of the game, that shows lack of knowledge of both games.
I was simply saying that on average a good portion of today's society lacks the knowledge, attention span, are too ignorant, whatever you want to call it, to appreciate baseball. All they see is a bunch of people standing around. They don't really know or understand what's going on in the game, that is the definition of ignorance.

 

[Orange.]

If the primary LB is 4th in solo tackles behind 3 DB’s, that’s a sign the LB isn’t very good imo

For my part, as I said prevously, I am thanking him for his devotion and efforts and wishing him well in his future endeavors. I was simply answering @jave36's question.

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

I wasn't insulting anyone. I was making a general statement about society, sorry that was not clear. Everyone has personal preferences and I understand baseball isn't for everyone nor is football (ask my momma). I was just saying that society in general has become too dumb and desensitized for baseball. If you don't think society has gotten a lot dumber, I will die on that hill, average people of a hundred years ago would be considered genius today.
And I doubt you could find a history book that I would find boring, I am usually reading three books (depending on what room I am in) at a time and currently one is the six volume history of WWII by Winston Churchill. I am a math/science man by trade but history is one of my loves.

I've really wanted to read Churchills WW1 series ever since hearing Dan Carlin quote them so much in his Blueprint for Armageddon series....sadly I have so much trouble focusing now thanks to adult onset ADD that it makes reading anything a chore.

It came out of nowhere 3-4 years ago....books I used to read in 3-4 days take me months now.

I highly recommend Barbara Tuchmans Guns of August..it is not a history of the whole war, but it is an excellent look at the buildup and especially the first month or two of WW.


It will take you a few days at most but took me two months..lol.

 

[LaagerVol]

Can't debate that. Could be true and I kind of agree but also hard to quantify and subjective. I also wonder if that's just one of those things where we always see those younger than us as having no common sense. And really its because they're just younger and we also "ain't had no cents" when we were young.

But going back to how this came up - common sense, or lack thereof, surely has no bearing on one's interest in baseball.

I wasn’t even thinking of those younger than I when I said we are lacking in common sense as a society these days. Lack of common sense isn’t age discriminant imo

 

[drvenner]

That was brilliant. Cleverness is integral to humor.

I done seent what you done there.

 

[drvenner]

I really wanna go to the LV forum and post in the "Rickea Jackson Drafted #4" thread:

"Would've been #1 if Kim Caldwell coached her. . . "

I will buy you an adult beverage of your choice if you do.

 

[LaagerVol]

As I stated earlier, I made a distinction between intelligence and smarts. There are plenty of intelligent people who don't like baseball who understand the game. There are also plenty of intelligent people who are ignorant and make ignorant statements about the game. Like the baseball manager was making all the decisions and the football players were more in charge of the game, that show lack of knowledge of both games.
I was simply saying that on average a good portion of today's society lacks the knowledge, attention span, are too ignorant, whatever you want to call it, to appreciate baseball. All they see is a bunch of people standing around. They don't really know or understand what's going on in the game, that is the definition of ignorance.

Your original statement was that society is too dumb now to understand baseball. My assessment is that people either like it or they don’t. Doesn’t have anything to do with the dumbing down of society. Now if you want to argue that people aren’t interested in learning about baseball, we could probably agree on that. You can’t convince me that there aren’t plenty of people today who are perfectly capable of understanding baseball if they have a desire to.