2024 Presidential Race

#15,602
#15,602
McDad said:
Ok. I'm gonna try to do this without any search engine help.

Mike Pence. Weird by our standards but seems to be high character to a fault.

Mitt Romney. Not a good leader but good character and integrity.

Tulsi Gabbard.

That was very difficult.

How'd I score?

ETA: I just realized all 3 are no longer holding office. Epic fail.
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I didn’t catch that either lol.

It’s a short list for sure. You gave it your McBest.
 
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#15,603
#15,603
BowlBrother85 said:
That is stupid. There is no way in hell that Lynn Cheney thought opposing Trump would be politically beneficial to her in a state like Wyoming. Damn, that was a ridiculous thing to say. She voted with Trump's stated position as much as anyone in the House of Reps.
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She didn't give 2 chits about Wyoming, she was angling for a WH run.
 
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#15,604
#15,604
hog88 said:
No. I think he was looking at it the same way Cheney was, thought opposing Trump would be most beneficial for him.
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After he clinched the Republican nomination in 2016, you'd really have to have the political instincts of an infant to think that opposing Trump as a Republican was a winning proposition. I don't think Liz Cheney and especially Romney's political instincts are that bad.

Whether or not a politician is principled is a relative thing. IMO, if someone is a politician they are not a principled person by definition. They are followers, not leaders, of public opinion, so by definition they aren't really principled people. However, some politicians are more principled than others. Romney is probably one of those politicians. Personally, I think Romney knew that he couldn't convincingly pull off being a Trumpster, not in terms of policy (he actually doesn't even disagree with Trump often) but in terms of style. I think he was uncomfortable getting on board with a lot of the rhetoric/style of Trump, so he targeted a position (Utah Senator) that he knew he could still win even if he wasn't on board with Trump. Not on an absolute basis, but relative to other politicians, that could be described as a "principled" move.
 
#15,605
#15,605
hog88 said:
She didn't give 2 chits about Wyoming, she was angling for a WH run.
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LOL. That is comical, and based on NOTHING but what you want to believe about her. Everyone always has an ulterior motive don't they? Nothing should ever be taken at face value in the Land of Trump cultists.

The facts :

1) She did run for re-election in Wyoming.

2) She did not run for President.

You are so damn pathetic.
 
#15,606
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05_never_again said:
I'm not a huge fan of Romney...but if that was true all the time, then wouldn't he have gotten on the Trump Train? Today, he is completely out of step from where the political winds in his own party are blowing.
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He tried to get on the Trump train. Wanted a cabinet spot. Met Trump at one of his golf courses to mesh it out. He did not get it. From then on he was anti Trump
 
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#15,607
#15,607
hog88 said:
No. I think he was looking at it the same way Cheney was, thought opposing Trump would be most beneficial for him.
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Absurd opinion, dude. Romney is retiring. He doesn't need to do anything in particular to "benefit" him. You've essentially got it backward.
The Republicans in Congress who support the gangster--or pretend do--are the ones who are selling out to keep their jobs, as they don't want
to alienate any GOP voters who support the gangster. It goes without saying that those who either say nothing about the gangster or pretend
to support him know that he's a lowlife and not fit to be dog-catcher.

Let's consider Pence: Here we had a man of high character who was astoundingly loyal to the gangster. Indeed, you couldn't find two men more different in character than Pence and Trump--the former a solid christian man, the latter a vile lowlife. Yet Pence, as VP, was a picture of loyalty to the gangster--a lapdog, practically. It was sad and hard to watch, frankly. And then comes the election and the vile lowlife president turns on his VP--threatens him, tries to bully him into taking part in a coup attempt, insults him multiple times to such a degree that dumb, dirty rednecks were ready to attack the guy on Jan. 6. And yet, after all that, for months Pence could barely brings himself to speak out against the gangster. He did so--but only in the softest and mildest of ways. Why? Because he wanted to run for president--and he didn't want to alienate the MAGA rednecks. Poor guy. That was the wrong, weak approach--but it typified the GOP pols who act the same. They don't want piss off the rednecks. Even if Romney were interested in running for reelection, his views on the gangster wouldn't be any different at all. I pity any politician whose got a constituency full of MAGA rednecks--unless the pol is like MTG and a redneck himself or herself.
 
#15,608
#15,608
BowlBrother85 said:
LOL. That is comical, and based on NOTHING but what you want to believe about her. Everyone always has an ulterior motive don't they? Nothing should ever be taken at face value in the Land of Trump cultists.

The facts :

1) She did run for re-election in Wyoming.

2) She did not run for President.

You are so damn pathetic.
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By the time she would have had to declare it was obvious to everyone including her that she had less than zero shot at securing the nomination.

You're just blind my friend.
 
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#15,609
volfanhill said:
He tried to get on the Trump train. Wanted a cabinet spot. Met Trump at one of his golf courses to mesh it out. He did not get it. From then on he was anti Trump
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It's more complicated than that. He opposed him before and after the 2016 primaries, said he was a fraud, etc. It wasn't like they were buddies, but then he decided to hate him after he didn't get the Secretary of State job. Opposing Trump during the primaries likely cost him that job.

My point is that when the political winds started to blow in favor of Trump, Romney actually didn't go with them. He took a position that was unpopular in his party, and continued to hold on to it for a while even as it became more unpopular. Then after Trump won he did try to get a job in his admin, but it was too late, then he reverted to his original position. That can actually pass for "principled" in the incredibly low bar that is politics. The winds can be strong enough to get him to eventually change his position, but he doesn't change course with every single change in the wind's direction. And Trump isn't above changing his mind about someone if they change his mind about him (see Ted Cruz).
 
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#15,610
#15,610
hog88 said:
By the time she would have had to declare it was obvious to everyone including her that she had less than zero shot at securing the nomination.

You're just blind my friend.
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You are pretending to have the power to read minds. Based on her actions, there is NOTHING to believe that Cheney's public stand against Trump's conduct, was motivated by anything but an objection to Trump's behavior and character.

Once again, Cheney voted with Donald Trump's publicly stated position over 90% of the time. Her only opposition to him, concerned his behavior.

Just like Donald Trump himself ..... you have a need to believe that a Republican's opposition to Trump's conduct could only be inspired by an ulterior motive of self-interest. It is a pathetic lie. There is no reason to believe that has been the case with Liz Cheney. You say you aren't in a cult .... but your actions speak much louder, and they say just the opposite.
 
#15,611
#15,611
BowlBrother85 said:
You are pretending to have the power to read minds. Based on her actions, there is NOTHING to believe that Cheney's public stand against Trump's conduct, was motivated by anything but an objection to Trump's behavior and character.

Once again, Cheney voted with Donald Trump's publicly stated position over 90% of the time. Her only opposition to him, concerned his behavior.

Just like Donald Trump himself ..... you have a need to believe that a Republican's opposition to Trump's conduct could only be inspired by an ulterior motive of self-interest. It is a pathetic lie. There is no reason to believe that has been the case with Liz Cheney. You say you aren't in a cult .... but your actions speak much louder, and they say just the opposite.
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I'm not reading her mind, she's a woman and that would just confuse me.

I'm not questioning her voting record, I'm simply stating that I fully believe that she thought turning anti-Trump would be her ticket to the WH in 2024. She was wrong and not only will she never be president it cost her her house seat. She didn't go anti-Trump out of some moral opposition to him, her dad is a bigger dirtbag than Trump.
 
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#15,612
#15,612
turbovol said:
Absurd opinion, dude. Romney is retiring. He doesn't need to do anything in particular to "benefit" him. You've essentially got it backward.
The Republicans in Congress who support the gangster--or pretend do--are the ones who are selling out to keep their jobs, as they don't want
to alienate any GOP voters who support the gangster. It goes without saying that those who either say nothing about the gangster or pretend
to support him know that he's a lowlife and not fit to be dog-catcher.

Let's consider Pence: Here we had a man of high character who was astoundingly loyal to the gangster. Indeed, you couldn't find two men more different in character than Pence and Trump--the former a solid christian man, the latter a vile lowlife. Yet Pence, as VP, was a picture of loyalty to the gangster--a lapdog, practically. It was sad and hard to watch, frankly. And then comes the election and the vile lowlife president turns on his VP--threatens him, tries to bully him into taking part in a coup attempt, insults him multiple times to such a degree that dumb, dirty rednecks were ready to attack the guy on Jan. 6. And yet, after all that, for months Pence could barely brings himself to speak out against the gangster. He did so--but only in the softest and mildest of ways. Why? Because he wanted to run for president--and he didn't want to alienate the MAGA rednecks. Poor guy. That was the wrong, weak approach--but it typified the GOP pols who act the same. They don't want piss off the rednecks. Even if Romney were interested in running for reelection, his views on the gangster wouldn't be any different at all. I pity any politician whose got a constituency full of MAGA rednecks--unless the pol is like MTG and a redneck himself or herself.
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The Cult of Trump will always assign an ulterior motive to a critic of Trump's conduct. The validity of the criticism itself, is always left ignored.
 
#15,613
#15,613
hog88 said:
I'm not reading her mind, she's a woman and that would just confuse me.

I'm not questioning her voting record, I'm simply stating that I fully believe that she thought turning anti-Trump would be her ticket to the WH in 2024. She was wrong and not only will she never be president it cost her her house seat. She didn't go anti-Trump out of some moral opposition to him.
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But there is NOTHING to base that on .... Due to Trump's popularity within her party, it is a ridiculous notion. It's what you want to think. That is all.
 
#15,614
#15,614
BowlBrother85 said:
But there is NOTHING to base that on .... It is a ridiculous notion. It's what you want to think. That is all.
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Yes, you can base it on the fact she didn't oppose legislation he supported and when she turned anti-Trump.

Look, IDGAS what you believe about her or not. You have your opinion and I have mine and I'm not going to argue with a cult member over someone that doesn't matter anymore.
 
#15,615
#15,615
BowlBrother85 said:
You are pretending to have the power to read minds. Based on her actions, there is NOTHING to believe that Cheney's public stand against Trump's conduct, was motivated by anything but an objection to Trump's behavior and character.

Once again, Cheney voted with Donald Trump's publicly stated position over 90% of the time. Her only opposition to him, concerned his behavior.

Just like Donald Trump himself ..... you have a need to believe that a Republican's opposition to Trump's conduct could only be inspired by an ulterior motive of self-interest. It is a pathetic lie. There is no reason to believe that has been the case with Liz Cheney. You say you aren't in a cult .... but your actions speak much louder, and they say just the opposite.
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That 10% where she differed with him was a big deal to her though. Cheney (and to a little lesser degree Romney) represent a faction not just of the Republican Party, but of the mainstream political class that wants to keep the system of international alliances unchanged and fully funded. Trump's rhetoric about NATO members not paying their fair share and wanting the US to pull back from it, getting troops out of South Korea and Germany, etc. scares Cheney's political backers, so they fund her to be a force against it. I know in practice Trump didn't really change anything about it when he was in office, but they don't like the rhetoric and fear it could start to change public opinion over time (and already has to a degree). I don't think her opposition to him was purely based on his behavior.
 
#15,616
#15,616
hog88 said:
Yes, you can base it on the fact she didn't oppose legislation he supported and when she turned anti-Trump.

Look, IDGAS what you believe about her or not. You have your opinion and I have mine and I'm not going to argue with a cult member over someone that doesn't matter anymore.
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She only turned anti-Trump because of his misconduct. She was very clear about that, and there is no reason to doubt it .... unless it is just what you want to believe - and in your case, it is.

Right. You would rather play the "No puppet ... No puppet .... You're the puppet," game. This is a classic example of why I say that you are in a cult. You have a need to believe that any Republican who is critical of Trump's behavior, is only doing so because of an ulterior motive involving self-interest. The validity of the criticism itself is never considered. It is only something to be dismissed because of this alleged ulterior motive that all of Trump's critics supposedly have. Trump is always an innocent victim of persecution and bias to his cult following.
 
#15,617
#15,617
hog88 said:
I'm not reading her mind, she's a woman and that would just confuse me.

I'm not questioning her voting record, I'm simply stating that I fully believe that she thought turning anti-Trump would be her ticket to the WH in 2024. She was wrong and not only will she never be president it cost her her house seat. She didn't go anti-Trump out of some moral opposition to him, her dad is a bigger dirtbag than Trump.
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I agree and disagree.

Her political instincts are too good to think that turning anti-Trump was a WH ticket in 2024. She isn't that dumb.

However, I agree that she did not go anti-Trump out of some moral opposition to him (see my previous post). The Liz Cheneys of the world are there to be spokespeople for a particular interest group, who is skittish about Trump. That is where her opposition to him comes from.
 
#15,618
#15,618
BowlBrother85 said:
She only turned anti-Trump because of his misconduct. She was very clear about that, and there is no reason to doubt it .... unless it is just what you want to believe - and in your case, it is.

Right. You would rather play the "No puppet ... No puppet .... You're the puppet," game. This is a classic example of why I say that you are in a cult. You have a need to believe that any Republican who is critical of Trump's behavior, is only doing so because of an ulterior motive involving self-interest. The validity of the criticism itself is never considered. It is only something to be dismissed because, of this alleged ulterior motive that all of Trump's critics supposedly have. Trump is always an innocent victim of persecution and bias to his cult following.
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LOL. As I said in my earlier post, her dad was/is a bigger dirtbag than Trump so his "misconduct" had nothing to do with it. It's proven by her actions on the J6 committee that she is just as dishonest as Trump and her misconduct during that charade just as bad.

Again, we will never agree on this. She is in your opinion a moral crusader since she opposed Trump regardless of her actual voting and legislative record and that makes her damn near a saint in your eyes.
 
#15,619
#15,619
05_never_again said:
I agree and disagree.

Her political instincts are too good to think that turning anti-Trump was a WH ticket in 2024. She isn't that dumb.

However, I agree that she did not go anti-Trump out of some moral opposition to him (see my previous post).
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Oh yes she was that dumb. She could have had a real shot given her name recognition had she not made the turn.
 
#15,620
#15,620
05_never_again said:
I agree and disagree.

Her political instincts are too good to think that turning anti-Trump was a WH ticket in 2024. She isn't that dumb.

However, I agree that she did not go anti-Trump out of some moral opposition to him (see my previous post).
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She was never critical of his policies .... only his misconduct. You are also engaging in some conjecture here.
 
#15,621
#15,621
#15,623
#15,623
hog88 said:
LOL. As I said in my earlier post, her dad was/is a bigger dirtbag than Trump so his "misconduct" had nothing to do with it.
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Guilt by association? Even by your standards, this is simple-mindedness.

hog88 said:
It's proven by her actions on the J6 committee that she is just as dishonest as Trump and her misconduct during that charade just as bad.
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That is ridiculous.

hog88 said:
She is in your opinion a moral crusader since she opposed Trump regardless of her actual voting and legislative record and that makes her damn near a saint in your eyes.
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I don't like her because of her voting record .... but there is no reason to believe that her opposition to Trump's conduct was motivated by self-interest.
 
#15,624
#15,624
hog88 said:
Oh yes she was that dumb. She could have had a real shot given her name recognition had she not made the turn.
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You are that just that cultish. You have a need to assign an ulterior motive to anyone who is critical of Trump. The criticism itself is never analyzed for validity.
 
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