War in Ukraine

[KB5252]

NATO countries don't have weapons and ammunition to aid Ukraine? If that's the case how in the hell are they supposed to aid in their own defense if Russia did attack? Stop with the bullshot, if this was about European countries concerned over Russian expansion they would find a way to supply Ukraine.

It's not bullshat, see my post above.

 

[Orangeburst]

I agree in principle, but let's be honest Europe/NATO has been riding our defense coattails for so long it would take them the better part of a decade to bolster their defense sufficiently and create stockpiles of weapons needed for their own defense much less sharing enough alone to support Ukraine against Russia.

So Trump was correct then. What is the point of a one sided military alliance?

 

[hog88]

Zaluzhny tells the Economist that the Kremlin is oblivious to the huge losses sustained by the Russian army – well over 100,000 men according to many estimates.

We get the daily updates of 1K casualties per day..looks like propaganda to me.
This war was never winnable, that is unless one advocates for NATO direct involvement..surely no one wants that.,right?

Ukraine's only hope to win is to fight a long enough war of attrition to create unrest within Russia. But Russians for the most part are worthless automatons so conditioned to be slaves to the state they won't rise up.

 

[Orangeburst]

Ukraine's only hope to win is to fight a long enough war of attrition to create unrest within Russia. But Russians for the most part are worthless automatons so conditioned to be slaves to the state they won't rise up.

That was my point..they cant win a war of attrition against a nation with 3 times manpower.
Should of settled this last year.

 

[hog88]

I agree in principle, but let's be honest Europe/NATO has been riding our defense coattails for so long it would take them the better part of a decade to bolster their defense sufficiently and create stockpiles of weapons needed for their own defense much less sharing enough alone to support Ukraine against Russia.

It's all about priorities, if they made it a priority they absolutely could ramp up domestic production and/or purchase material to aid Ukraine. If they truly did feel threatened they would make it a priority.

 

[KB5252]

Maybe the EU should stop spending resources on climate and social nonsense and up the defense spending so they can assist their neighbor.

I think many of them are begining to think and act in preparing for the future militarily. Got way too complacent with the idea that someone else would provide and the world had changed with no real threats to Europe.

 

[hog88]

That was my point..they cant win a war of attrition against a nation with 3 times manpower.
Should of settled this last year.

With a proper defensive operation Ukraine could make any Russian advance a costly venture. They can hold for a while with the right leadership.

 

[Vol737]

So in short the sanctions are a farce to appease the mouthbreathers and Europe isn't doing sh^t.

Sounds like a never ending money pit for the US if the goal is to just keep Russia in check where the lines are currently drawn. He we are in Europe, yet again, doing most the heavy lifting ($$ financially).

 

[KB5252]

It's all about priorities, if they made it a priority they absolutely could ramp up domestic production and/or purchase material to aid Ukraine. If they truly did feel threatened they would make it a priority.

It's not like there is a supermarket you can just go purchase this stuff at. Getting stockpiles is expensive and there are limited quantities available for anyone to buy anywhere. There is a reason Russia is buying from Iran, North Korea etc. just as we arranged stock for Ukraine from others stockpiles.

I understand what you are saying but we must be honest with the realities involved in acquiring weapons sufficient for defense. It takes decades to stockpile them and months to exhaust them in battle.

Unless you are calling for a wartime economy......... And trust me, we don't want that.

 

[BeardedVol]

Interesting read.

In the Ukraine war, totalitarianism is beating capitalism

Two years after Russia invaded Ukraine, its economy is mobilizing for a long war. Western democracies are way behind.

finance.yahoo.com

A war time economy is not true economic growth. It's unsustainable long term, and the increase in GDP is not exportable goods, but military hardware that will be destroyed on the battlefield.

Russia’s economy is now completely driven by the war in Ukraine – it cannot afford to lose, but nor can it afford to win

Western military support for Ukraine is more important than ever.

theconversation.com

 

[CobbVol]

It's not like there is a supermarket you can just go purchase this stuff at. Getting stockpiles is expensive and there are limited quantities available for anyone to buy anywhere. There is a reason Russia is buying from Iran, North Korea etc. just as we arranged stock for Ukraine from others stockpiles.

I understand what you are saying but we must be honest with the realities involved in acquiring weapons sufficient for defense. It takes decades to stockpile them and months to exhaust them in battle.

Unless you are calling for a wartime economy......... And trust me, we don't want that.

Trump encouraged the EU to increase defense spending almost 8 years ago. It is not their priority versus climate and social spending that they so easily write checks for. They should have followed Trumps's advice.

 

[KB5252]

So Trump was correct then. What is the point of a one sided military alliance?

In this respect he was absolutely correct. Someone had to tell them bluntly they needed to get their shat together.

 

[KB5252]

Trump encouraged the EU to increase defense spending almost 8 years ago. It is not their priority versus climate and social spending that they so easily write checks for. They should have followed Trumps's advice.

It was a slow process but the have actually begun to shift more money towards military capabilities. This was certainly a wake up call.

 

[BeardedVol]

This chart shape could be new to you. I brought some words in as well to help you.

The EU budget makes a crucial contribution to the fight against climate change. Over the course of the 2021-2027 period, the EU is set to spend at least 30% of its budget on climate-relevant objectives.

The European Green Deal is also our lifeline out of the COVID-19 pandemic. One third of the €1.8 trillion investments from the NextGenerationEU Recovery Plan, and the EU’s seven-year budget will finance the European Green Deal.

priorities /prī-ôr′ĭ-t
ē, -ŏr′-/
Plural form of priority
noun

1. Precedence, especially established by order of importance or urgency.
2. An established right to precedence.
3. An authoritative rating that establishes such precedence.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 5th Edition • More at Wordnik


View attachment 622088

And?

Is this supposed to show that the EU is in fact, not spending substantially on Ukraine's support and defense?



Feel free to scroll down total up all of the individual EU country contributions along with the EU institution contributions if that level of math isn't too difficult for you.

 

[hog88]

It's not like there is a supermarket you can just go purchase this stuff at. Getting stockpiles is expensive and there are limited quantities available for anyone to buy anywhere. There is a reason Russia is buying from Iran, North Korea etc. just as we arranged stock for Ukraine from others stockpiles.

I understand what you are saying but we must be honest with the realities involved in acquiring weapons sufficient for defense. It takes decades to stockpile them and months to exhaust them in battle.

Unless you are calling for a wartime economy......... And trust me, we don't want that.

It didn't take us "decades" to ramp up military production in the 1940s now did it? Europe could do it, they could buy from our suppliers, they have options if they were truly concerned.

We don't need to be on a wartime economy, Europe (if they are really worried) needs to be on a wartime economy.

 

[CobbVol]

And?

Is this supposed to show that the EU is in fact, not spending substantially on Ukraine's support and defense?

View attachment 622089

Feel free to scroll down total up all of the individual EU country contributions along with the EU institution contributions if that level of math isn't too difficult for you.

So close as you are getting there. This may help.

Planned climate budget for the EU for 2021-2027 is 578B ... Or $82.6B per year. How does that prioritize in dollars versus the Russian threat in Ukraine?

 

[Vol737]

A war time economy is not true economic growth. It's unsustainable long term, and the increase in GDP is not exportable goods, but military hardware that will be destroyed on the battlefield.

Russia’s economy is now completely driven by the war in Ukraine – it cannot afford to lose, but nor can it afford to win

Western military support for Ukraine is more important than ever.

theconversation.com

It’s had to accelerated the concerns wrt its labor force and output as well, considering the number of people that have fled Russia or conscripted into service. The birth rate, demographics and population forecast was already precarious.

 

[KB5252]

It didn't take us "decades" to ramp up military production in the 1940s now did it? Europe could do it, they could buy from our suppliers, they have options if they were truly concerned.

We don't need to be on a wartime economy, Europe (if they are really worried) needs to be on a wartime economy.

That would take a wartime economy. Everything, all resources going toward war effort. That's how we and the rest of the world achieved that production. We nor Europe currently have the infrastructure nor production facilities to take on a similar effort today. Not to mention the financial toll and effort on that scale would have on local and world economies.

It's not remotely as simple as you are attempting to make it.

 

[BeardedVol]

So close as you are getting there. This may help.

Planned climate budget for the EU for 2021-2027 is 578B ... Or $82.6B per year. How does that prioritize in dollars versus the Russian threat in Ukraine?

Again, show me how this is supposed to show that the EU is in fact not supporting Ukraine's defense with substantial financial contributions.

The numbers are there for you.

Ukraine Support Tracker - A Database of Military, Financial and Humanitarian Aid to Ukraine

The Ukraine Support Tracker lists and quantifies military, financial and humanitarian aid promised by governments to Ukraine.

www.ifw-kiel.de

 

[CobbVol]

Again, show me how this is supposed to show that the EU is in fact not supporting Ukraine's defense with substantial financial contributions.

The numbers are there for you.

Ukraine Support Tracker - A Database of Military, Financial and Humanitarian Aid to Ukraine

The Ukraine Support Tracker lists and quantifies military, financial and humanitarian aid promised by governments to Ukraine.

www.ifw-kiel.de

You are moving the goal post. It was never a question of not supporting, it is a question of their priorities. From the dollars they spend, climate change is higher on the board versus the existential threat the Ukraine-Russia war is framed in our supposed media.

 

[evillawyer]

Happy Friday to all of our resident Putin shills

 

[LouderVol]

Interesting read.

In the Ukraine war, totalitarianism is beating capitalism

Two years after Russia invaded Ukraine, its economy is mobilizing for a long war. Western democracies are way behind.

finance.yahoo.com

contents of the article aren't wrong, but the click bait title and overall assumption is quiet wrong.

the sanctions shutting down/controlling trade isn't capitalism. thats just more totalitarianism.
sanctions against individuals isn't capitalistic either.
our spending and giving away of materials are also not capitalist as they are government driven and funded with funny money. more totalitarianism.
they also fail to bring up that Russia, despite having all this manufacturing capability has had to turn to multiple other nations for support as well. The war dries up pretty fast for the Russians without Iranian, Chinese, North Korean, and Belarussian support. especially since they are key in skirting the economic sanctions.
our government infighting has nothing to do with capitalism.

 

[evillawyer]

Hey @Rasputin_Vol, looks like your lads are having a cookout. Did you get the invite?

 

[evillawyer]

And more video of the $350 million take down.

 

[evillawyer]