War in Ukraine

#75,803
#75,803
Pacer92 said:
Not sure how you claim they weren’t? Taking losses that your enemy can’t, wins the battle of attrition. Basic math.

Common sense says that Ukraine isnt going to win this.

What’s making war well? Killing more people…displacing more?! There’s always going to be an insurgency against our occupations. Winning would be not involving ourselves in the first place.
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no one won a war dying for their country, you win a war by making the other b@st@rd die for his.

forcing your enemy into losses THEY can't/won't/don't want to sustain is what wins a war of attrition. again see the Winter War. Finland was absolutely devastated, more than Russia was. but they made it bad enough for the Russians to back off. they were able to win that because as the defender its easier to accept those losses as a good cause, much more difficult to argue a good cause while on the attack.

it all comes back to what winning means as defined by the politicians. If winning is changing the hearts and minds, then yeah you are going to have issues winning. but if winning just means removing an existing problem and letting your old enemies then fend for themselves, that is much easier to achieve. if you just want someone to stop a specific action that is typically even easier. after whatever peace is achieved Ukraine will have an easier time dealing with the fallout of the war if they win than if Russia does. Ukraine isn't going to face a insurgency if they retook Donetsk. The Russians will face insurgency.

its all relative, no absolutes.
 
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#75,804
#75,804
GHAfuLwW8AAArB7
 
#75,805
#75,805
volgr said:
Watch videos from actual Russians. They know what Navalny was and who he was involved with. If Russians are out mourning him publicly, they are almost certainly western sympathizers.
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Navalny dies in a Russian prison: Weeping and gnashing of teeth
Gonzalo Lira dies in a Ukrainian prison: *crickets*
 
#75,806
#75,806
Rasputin_Vol said:
Navalny dies in a Russian prison: Weeping and gnashing of teeth
Gonzalo Lira dies in a Ukrainian prison: *crickets*
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Navalny was murdered in a Russian prison, on the orders of Putin, after surviving a poisoning attempt, also on the orders of Putin: Weeping and gnashing of teeth
Gonzolo Lira died of pneumonia, after years of chain-smoking and poor life choices, while in Ukrainian custody for violating his bail conditions: *crickets*

FTFY

1708699379941.png
 
#75,807
#75,807
Rasputin_Vol said:
Navalny dies in a Russian prison: Weeping and gnashing of teeth
Gonzalo Lira dies in a Ukrainian prison: *crickets*
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there was plenty of talk about Lira dying. even in this thread. everyone said it looked bad at first, then the truth came out, and it wasn't so bad, but still admitted as a bad look.

meanwhile Putin is refusing to release the body, won't allow third party autopsies, and is requiring a secret funeral where and when the wife and mother may not be allowed to be there.
 
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#75,813
#75,813
Orangeburst said:
Sorry, but the best they are gonna get. Ukraine is running out of manpower and will never take back Crimea, and there is not a blank check. Nothing but stalemate warfare and the sooner everyone accepts it, the better.
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They were holding their own, and would have continued to do if the Putin wing of the GOP hadn't cut them off from the ammunition and weapons we were giving them.

Had Jake Sullivan not been so busy wringing his hands and worrying about "escalation", then we'd have given them ATACMS last year before the GOP could go full Kremlin, and they'd have knocked out the Kerch bridge, and hit the major military sites in occupied Crimea.

Once holding Crimea is no longer feasible, Russia will retreat. They care nothing for the Donbas if they can't keep occupying Crimea.
 
#75,814
#75,814
BeardedVol said:
They were holding their own, and would have continued to do if the Putin wing of the GOP hadn't cut them off from the ammunition and weapons we were giving them.

Had Jake Sullivan not been so busy wringing his hands and worrying about "escalation", then we'd have given them ATACMS last year before the GOP could go full Kremlin, and they'd have knocked out the Kerch bridge, and hit the major military sites in occupied Crimea.

Once holding Crimea is no longer feasible, Russia will retreat. They care nothing for the Donbas if they can't keep occupying Crimea.
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They are running out of manpower and there are no magic weapons, much less a blank check. Russia has 3 times the manpower and is better suited for a war of attrition and a few hundred ATACMs isnt going to change tge outcome.

It is harsh reality.
 
#75,815
#75,815
BeardedVol said:
They were holding their own, and would have continued to do if the Putin wing of the GOP hadn't cut them off from the ammunition and weapons we were giving them.

Had Jake Sullivan not been so busy wringing his hands and worrying about "escalation", then we'd have given them ATACMS last year before the GOP could go full Kremlin, and they'd have knocked out the Kerch bridge, and hit the major military sites in occupied Crimea.

Once holding Crimea is no longer feasible, Russia will retreat. They care nothing for the Donbas if they can't keep occupying Crimea.
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Nothing is stopping European countries from giving them all the weapons and ammunition they need. Isn't the purpose of the billions of dollars we've spent to protect against Russian expansion and threats to other European nations? Maybe they don't feel as threatened as you want us to believe?
 
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#75,816
#75,816
hog88 said:
Nothing is stopping European countries from giving them all the weapons and ammunition they need. Isn't the purpose of the billions of dollars we've spent to protect against Russian expansion and threats to other European nations? Maybe they don't feel as threatened as you want us to believe?
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Except for the fact that they don't have them. Which is why the EU was providing the majority of the financial aid, while we were supplying the majority of the military aid.

1708704839306.png
 
#75,817
#75,817
BeardedVol said:
Except for the fact that they don't have them. Which is why the EU was providing the majority of the financial aid, while we were supplying the majority of the military aid.

View attachment 622085
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NATO countries don't have weapons and ammunition to aid Ukraine? If that's the case how in the hell are they supposed to aid in their own defense if Russia did attack? Stop with the bullshot, if this was about European countries concerned over Russian expansion they would find a way to supply Ukraine.
 
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#75,818
#75,818
BeardedVol said:
They were holding their own, and would have continued to do if the Putin wing of the GOP hadn't cut them off from the ammunition and weapons we were giving them.

Had Jake Sullivan not been so busy wringing his hands and worrying about "escalation", then we'd have given them ATACMS last year before the GOP could go full Kremlin, and they'd have knocked out the Kerch bridge, and hit the major military sites in occupied Crimea.

Once holding Crimea is no longer feasible, Russia will retreat. They care nothing for the Donbas if they can't keep occupying Crimea.
Click to expand...

Maybe the EU should stop spending resources on climate and social nonsense and up the defense spending so they can assist their neighbor.
 
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#75,823
#75,823
BeardedVol said:
I take it you struggle to read charts?

www.ifw-kiel.de

Ukraine Support Tracker - A Database of Military, Financial and Humanitarian Aid to Ukraine

The Ukraine Support Tracker lists and quantifies military, financial and humanitarian aid promised by governments to Ukraine.
www.ifw-kiel.de www.ifw-kiel.de
Click to expand...

This chart shape could be new to you. I brought some words in as well to help you.

The EU budget makes a crucial contribution to the fight against climate change. Over the course of the 2021-2027 period, the EU is set to spend at least 30% of its budget on climate-relevant objectives.

The European Green Deal is also our lifeline out of the COVID-19 pandemic. One third of the €1.8 trillion investments from the NextGenerationEU Recovery Plan, and the EU’s seven-year budget will finance the European Green Deal.

priorities /prī-ôr′ĭ-t
ē, -ŏr′-/
Plural form of priority
noun
  1. Precedence, especially established by order of importance or urgency.
  2. An established right to precedence.
  3. An authoritative rating that establishes such precedence.
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 5th Edition • More at Wordnik


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#75,824
#75,824
Zaluzhny tells the Economist that the Kremlin is oblivious to the huge losses sustained by the Russian army – well over 100,000 men according to many estimates.

We get the daily updates of 1K casualties per day..looks like propaganda to me.
This war was never winnable, that is unless one advocates for NATO direct involvement..surely no one wants that.,right?
 
#75,825
#75,825
hog88 said:
Nothing is stopping European countries from giving them all the weapons and ammunition they need. Isn't the purpose of the billions of dollars we've spent to protect against Russian expansion and threats to other European nations? Maybe they don't feel as threatened as you want us to believe?
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I agree in principle, but let's be honest Europe/NATO has been riding our defense coattails for so long it would take them the better part of a decade to bolster their defense sufficiently and create stockpiles of weapons needed for their own defense much less sharing enough alone to support Ukraine against Russia.
 
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