War in Ukraine

#75,752
#75,752
hog88 said:
😂 An infantry private, especially a conscript isn’t going to have any operational information nor a chance to sabotage anything. Come on dude.
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Heck, stick ‘em on the front line and tell them to walk until they reach an obstacle or Ukrainian troops. Now you have intel on possible obstacles and enemy troop locations. If they refuse, they’re now a “traitor.”
 
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#75,756
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#75,757
#75,757
Rasputin_Vol said:
You believe that nonsense?
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Gang Of Putin enablers aren't interested in the truth, just lies. Anyone, even poorly educated knows Putin and his oligarchs.have suckled at the teats of Russian revenue generators of oil, grains, and more. Enriching themselves at the expense of the Russian people. The Urkie war hasn't changed that. We are where the Good Book says we will come unto regarding what it calls the Lawless one:

He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

So expect the narratives of falsehoods, denials of facts, even when it slaps them in the face. The MAGA-nauts simply can't help themselves. Because they have predetermined their choice, indeed, their preference. Georgie boy has these lie-lovers pegged to when he wrote:
‘War Is Peace. Freedom Is Slavery. Ignorance Is Strength.’
 
#75,758
#75,758
volgr said:
Ukraine isnt putting Russian sympathizers in their military or at least not knowingly. I have never said that. You guys have been in this thread inbreeding so long you've become retarded. Good Lord.
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there have been claims about Ukraine press ganging war protesters and those fleeing the country to avoid service. how is that any different that what is happening in Russia with those individuals?

You are just calling them western sympathizers because they dare display the smallest amount of freedom from the Putin enforced group think. Russia is a big country, with 150+ million people. There is plenty of a gray between fully supporting everything Putin does, and wishing for a western take over.
 
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#75,759
Pacer92 said:
What about the videos aplenty of Ukrainians being pulled off the streets…away from their families…to go fight for the deranged lunatic that is Zelensky?!
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never said otherwise.

got any more red herrings you want to toss out to avoid the discussion at hand?
 
#75,760
#75,760
Pacer92 said:
No, pull all the kids and old men…ala Hitler and Zelensky.

That’s a recipe for a “win”, right?

Common sense says to cede some land instead of a whole generation or two of Ukrainian males…
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so Stalin should have just surrendered to Hitler and given up western Russia?

war is always about breaking the will of the other. its funny that you hate on our politicians for being limp wristed when it comes to our war making; but here you are championing giving up as soon as things look bad.
 
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#75,761
#75,761
Rasputin_Vol said:
View attachment 621749
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soon as in 6 to 9 months from now?

all of those places had been on the border for a good long while.

and you want to go on record about overall Russia's strategy now? Is land acquisition the goal now? Because previously you have openly dismissed any land grabs as completely meaningless. of course you have me blocked because you can't answer any of my questions directly.
 
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#75,762
#75,762
WestTennesseeVol said:
Heck, stick ‘em on the front line and tell them to walk until they reach an obstacle or Ukrainian troops. Now you have intel on possible obstacles and enemy troop locations. If they refuse, they’re now a “traitor.”
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its been a strategy for probably all of warfare. at least since medieval times with "Forlorn Hope" type troops. no reason to trust prisoners or political dissidents, but they have been used for dying plenty of times.
 
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#75,763
#75,763
www.yahoo.com

Europe clearly now wants Vladimir Putin to win

If Nato’s leaders are to draw any lesson from Ukraine’s bitter two-year-long conflict, it is that the alliance remains woefully ill-prepared to deal with the existential threat Moscow poses to its future security.
www.yahoo.com www.yahoo.com

I am seeing more and more of these doom and gloom, pour more money into Ukraine articles. It gets tiring.
 
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#75,764
#75,764
volgr said:
Doesnt matter where you put them, they arent going to risk either internal sabotage or defects running to the other side and giving them operational info. Also, you guys think Putin is a murderous thug so why wouldnt he just kill them and not risk the above? It makes no sense.
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Are you denying Putin as a murderous thug?

If so nothing else you say can be taken seriously.
 
#75,766
#75,766
KB5252 said:
Are you denying Putin as a murderous thug?

If so nothing else you say can be taken seriously.
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I am not a fan of Putin but how is he any different from Elizabeth I, Louis 14th, Czar Peter the Great, Czar Catherine the Great, Emperor Meiji, King David of Israel, Alexander the Great, Augustus Caesar, Julius Caesar, Charlemagne, or 95% of most world rulers in history?

He isn't a leader that I would want but when you are looking at the world, his actions are pretty in line with how the vast majority of rulers have behaved throughout history.
 
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#75,769
LouderVol said:
there have been claims about Ukraine press ganging war protesters and those fleeing the country to avoid service. how is that any different that what is happening in Russia with those individuals?

You are just calling them western sympathizers because they dare display the smallest amount of freedom from the Putin enforced group think. Russia is a big country, with 150+ million people. There is plenty of a gray between fully supporting everything Putin does, and wishing for a western take over.
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Watch videos from actual Russians. They know what Navalny was and who he was involved with. If Russians are out mourning him publicly, they are almost certainly western sympathizers.
 
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#75,770
#75,770
KB5252 said:
Are you denying Putin as a murderous thug?

If so nothing else you say can be taken seriously.
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No more than any other western leader, maybe less.

As Putin said, you cant beat the west when it comes to propaganda. The west just does a better job at hiding their murderous thugs behind propaganda narratives.
 
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#75,771
#75,771
volgr said:
Watch videos from actual Russians. They know what Navalny was and who he was involved with. If Russians are out mourning him publicly, they are almost certainly western sympathizers.
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so again. comply with the group think or you aren't a real Russian....how convenient.

funny I thought all that mattered was if one was ethnically Russian that made you Russian, even in other countries. Putin will invade another country to "save" some ethnic Russians, but come to ethnic Russians in his own country and he will treat you like crap if you don't agree with him.
 
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#75,772
#75,772
volbound1700 said:
I am not a fan of Putin but how is he any different from Elizabeth I, Louis 14th, Czar Peter the Great, Czar Catherine the Great, Emperor Meiji, King David of Israel, Alexander the Great, Augustus Caesar, Julius Caesar, Charlemagne, or 95% of most world rulers in history?

He isn't a leader that I would want but when you are looking at the world, his actions are pretty in line with how the vast majority of rulers have behaved throughout history.
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the most recent example you gave has been dead for more than 100 years. several of them dead for 2000 years.

you don't think there has been some necessary changes to standards during that time? Especially when it comes to the treatment of your own citizens?

just like it dumb to hold those listed to our standards today, its similarly dumb to judge someone today against standards 100s of years gone.
 
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#75,773
LouderVol said:
the most recent example you gave has been dead for more than 100 years. several of them dead for 2000 years.

you don't think there has been some necessary changes to standards during that time? Especially when it comes to the treatment of your own citizens?

just like it dumb to hold those listed to our standards today, its similarly dumb to judge someone today against standards 100s of years gone.
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I would arguing that going to war might be to the benefit of a people and maybe the best choice of a leader. History is full of nations that went to war and grew because of it. Winning wars is, sometimes, the greatest method to advance your nation and your people's standard of living.

Look at the Empires of Antiquity. Macedon grew because of Alexander and Phillip (as well as Greece as a whole), Rome grew because of the wars with Carthage, Greek states, Celts, etc.

Europe was no different. Wars of expansion and colonialism grew England, France, Portugal, Castile (which became Spain), Brandenburg (which became Prussia and then Germany), etc. until world super powers and brought prosperity and wealth to their nations.

Even the USA would not be where it is currently without the war of 1812 securing our borders to the Mississippi and in the North, the Louisiana Purchase, the Mexican-America War, the numerous wars against Native Americans, and the Spanish-American War.

USA gained significant territory, wealth, and resources from warfare and by committing "war crimes". Now we want to judge the rest of the world when we have 1/4 to 1/3 of the land mass of Continental North America, more eligible farmland than any nation on Earth, and countless Natural Resources. Other nations don't have these resources so you can't blame them, at times, for wanting war to expand their territory or obtain resources to make life better for their people or make their nation stronger.

I totally think Putin went to war with Ukraine to expand borders and take resources from Ukraine. I don't think it was about NATO or the other stuff he keeps pandering. I do believe that he sincerely thought Ukraine wouldn't put up much of a fight and sincerely believes Ukraine is "Russian".

At the same time, I have a hard time calling him a murderous thugs when most leaders in human history did the same or worse than him. I can agree Hitler or Stalin were a special variety of evil due to genocides that they willingly committed. That separates them from other problematic dictators. I also think those are the type of leaders that should really be tried for war crimes.

I do think Putin is playing a very dangerous game and is perhaps the greatest threat to get the World into a major World War today. However, his track record, to date, still doesn't put him on the same footing as a truly evil dictator like a Hitler, Tojo, or Stalin.
 
#75,774
#75,774
volgr said:
No more than any other western leader, maybe less.

As Putin said, you cant beat the west when it comes to propaganda. The west just does a better job at hiding their murderous thugs behind propaganda narratives.
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You seem to hold Putin in high regard. Putin has his political opponents killed. Dissidents fall out of windows at rates unheard of.

I'm not a fan of our domestic leaders at all but you must understand how your fluffing of Putin has a very negative effect on your credibility right?
 
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#75,775
#75,775
volbound1700 said:
I am not a fan of Putin but how is he any different from Elizabeth I, Louis 14th, Czar Peter the Great, Czar Catherine the Great, Emperor Meiji, King David of Israel, Alexander the Great, Augustus Caesar, Julius Caesar, Charlemagne, or 95% of most world rulers in history?

He isn't a leader that I would want but when you are looking at the world, his actions are pretty in line with how the vast majority of rulers have behaved throughout history.
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Right he's a relic, a throwback to our less civilized and barbaric human history. That's kind of my point.
 
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