Recruiting Football Talk VII

[mrMet]

No we didnt.

Here we see the Titans GM trying to motivate his team. Its really comical, because its absolutely effing crystal clear to every non Titan fan, what ownership wants. And yes, its the real world 'personification' for lack of better terms, of that very idea.

You aint goin' back tuh Houston, idgits.

No, you’re just being a moran thinking they want to go back to Houston. Jesus

 

[knoxvol52]

I don't think the wheels are falling off by any means. I posted earlier that the record isn't what people are pointing to, it's the way we lost. We got blown out of all our losses, not competitive against any team with a pulse.

The problem this year was lack of good QB play and another, 3rd year of a bad defense. It's my opinion we will never compete for anything meaningful as long as Tim Banks is the DC.

For this year to be a success, we needed the defense to take a step forward to offset some lost production on offense. That didn't happen. If you look at next year, while I think the offense will improve with Nico, it's not likely to be running on all cylinders. If we portal, similar to last year, I don't see the defense making significant strides. Sure, recruiting is trending the right way but we're still middle of the SEC at #7. Also, those players can't be counted on to contribute significantly as true freshman.

My point is, how long does Banks need to field a competent defense. If he doesn't next year, then can we expect year 5?

I believe Banks is here next year,whether I like it or not...saying that CJH needs to go to Banks and say what changes you think we need on defensive side of ball....CWM will be the scapegoat...if CJH hires an upgrade at DB coach and secondary doesn't improve ...then was it really CWM makes you wonder about scheme...Banks gets next year after that who knows...

 

[Orange.]

Comrade @Jackcrevol hit hardest

 

[Smokey123]

I think it has to do with more 3 and outs. Wright ran in 6 of 10 series.

People are complaining about Sampson not being more involved. You can’t have it both ways. The fact is that we are having more 3 and outs, and these guys don’t have as many chances.

Agreed… but my problem is them getting a combined 11 carry’s in a game Joe was not looking good in at all. You have to find ways to get your playmakers the ball. I think Joe had 30 attempts and his inconsistency was a big reason for the 3 and outs

 

[Jackcrevol]

No, you’re just being a moran thinking they want to go back to Houston. Jesus

Im always a moran, and I do think they hwhant too.

Listen, if @InVOLuntary gets his SEC conspiracy. I get my #Titans Conspiracy.

 

[InVOLuntary]

We're not near that now. We're three years in, so we'll add hyperbole to the accusation of impatience.

But we won't do well by giving into impatience, firing coached, adding chaos and instability, and resetting the clock.

But again, what you're doing here is complaining about timeline as opposed to breaking down the components that would dictate a reasonable timeline. That's symptomatic of impatience as opposed to rational analysis.

You own a company that builds boats. I can't imagine you managing in this way.

"So, what you're telling me is that there have been catastrophic interruptions to the supply chain and we just can't get parts B, F, H S, T, W, Y, and Z. You've worked your ass off to try to get them, but we just can't get them for four years. So, you've worked your ass off to get them, but also designed boat models that we can build in the meantime."

"OK. You're fired and I'll go shout at the ceiling while I wait for the next person I hire, who probably won't be able to do any better, and probably won't take the job anyway because they're good at their job, won't be desperate enough to work for a boss that fired the last guy for irrational expectations and manages via shouting at the ceiling."

It's not hyperbole, next year will be year 4. If you look at the trajectory of this defense, it won't be any better. It actually could be worse given the attrition. So I'm asking, is year 5 the breakout year? Or should we wait for year 6 or 7?

I've been here a long time. These conversations are about as predictable as the seasons. It's always the same, "wait till he gets his guys in here. " meanwhile, 3 years in, in a time when rebuilding has never been easier, and we have a defense that couldn't cover mother Theresa. But there's always next year, or the year after, or the year after that. Meanwhile, recruiting suffers because people see that you can't field a competent defense, and we have the excuse that we need more players but we can't get them because we suck at playing defense.

Tim Banks will never field a defense capable of winning anything of significance.

 

[knoxvol52]

I don't think he has much chance of getting drafted high enough to be guaranteed a roster spot at this point.

Was Trey Smith drafted?

 

[therickbol]

Was Trey Smith drafted?

You think that unique extreme example is a good reasoning for Bru to choose to go pro after this season? Come on....

 

[MoCo_Vol]

So 5,6,7 years to field a competent defense?

Did Mizzou or FL have better players or coaches?

Why is the automatic go to is to throw the players under the bus rather than the coaches who get millions to field a team?

I partly agree with your stance...but I also think the defense has improved. Last class was the first really good recruiting class for defensive talent, I'm sure in year 2 or 3 those guys will be playing the majority of the snaps.

Defense only had 3 games where they gave up more than 360 total yards. Only 3 games giving up 150 or more rushing yards.

But they didn't really improve in pass defense and 3rd down efficiency. The biggest difference was when the injuries hit and the offense started stalling more often.

So the biggest stat imo that really shows a lack of improvement is first downs given up, they gave up 20 or more 5 times 4 of those games we lost, the other was Kentucky.

 

[knoxvol52]

You think that unique extreme example is a good reasoning for Bru to choose to go pro after this season? Come on....

Okay well we may disagree but ..I think he goes pro ..if he doesn't great for Tennessee....

 

[Revived2002]

I present Kevin Steele vs Brent Venables.... Clemson was good but didn't turn Elite until Venables got there. If you think that guy is out there go get him. Banks is closer to Steele then he is Venables.

My point is it’s a total crapshoot on hiring new coaches. You never quite know if you are getting Venables or Sal Sunseri. Bob Shoop was supposed to be our Venables, but turned out a bust. We’ve tried that path many times in the past decade or more.

I’m just not a believer that Tennessee is Alabama, being held back by the administration, stubborn coaches and stingy donors. I think we’re a middle third SEC program (especially in the new SEC) and we need coaching stability to sustain quality recruiting, coupled with elite QB play and a few breaks to punch through to the top. That’s what I’m pulling for.

 

[HoleInTheRoof]

 

[InVOLuntary]

I believe Banks is here next year,whether I like it or not...saying that CJH needs to go to Banks and say what changes you think we need on defensive side of ball....CWM will be the scapegoat...if CJH hires an upgrade at DB coach and secondary doesn't improve ...then was it really CWM makes you wonder about scheme...Banks gets next year after that who knows...

I think, hope, pray he's gone this year. I'm indifferent on Martinez because I think he's a victim of incompetence of his boss.

We need an innovator at DC. Sort of a Josh Heupel DC that can get more out than the sum of the parts. If a DC needs more talent than the next guy, well I'm not sure how great of a coach he is.

Whether it's this year, or next year, or the following year, he'll never field a defense that can be complementary to the offense.

 

[InVOLuntary]

I partly agree with your stance...but I also think the defense has improved. Last class was the first really good recruiting class for defensive talent, I'm sure in year 2 or 3 those guys will be playing the majority of the snaps.

Defense only had 3 games where they gave up more than 360 total yards. Only 3 games giving up 150 or more rushing yards.

But they didn't really improve in pass defense and 3rd down efficiency. The biggest difference was when the injuries hit and the offense started stalling more often.

So the biggest stat imo that really shows a lack of improvement is first downs given up, they gave up 20 or more 5 times 4 of those games we lost, the other was Kentucky.

If you take those stats and realize that they played a significantly weaker schedule when it comes to offense, I'm not sure you can make the claim they are better. It's my opinion they are at best equal.

 

[Jackcrevol]

No, you’re just being a moran thinking they want to go back to Houston. Jesus

Ive got a bet. Whats the over/under this place will make it?#nobody wants to work

Insomnia Cookies to open store in Johnson City

JOHNSON CITY, Tenn. (WJHL) — Insomnia Cookies, a national cookie store that specializes in delivery and late-night options will open its first Tri-Cities store in Johnson City’s Earth Fare sh…

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[InVOLuntary]

My point is it’s a total crapshoot on hiring new coaches. You never quite know if you are getting Venables or Sal Sunseri. Bob Shoop was supposed to be our Venables, but turned out a bust. We’ve tried that path many times in the past decade or more.

I’m just not a believer that Tennessee is Alabama, being held back by the administration, stubborn coaches and stingy donors. I think we’re a middle third SEC program (especially in the new SEC) and we need coaching stability to sustain quality recruiting, coupled with elite QB play and a few breaks to punch through to the top. That’s what I’m pulling for.

The problem with that line of thinking is things are never static. You're either going up or down. 2-3 years of static is the inevitable start to going down. If we don't improve that defense we'll be in a constant fight with SC, KY and the other bottom half of the SEC teams.

 

[knoxvol52]

I think, hope, pray he's gone this year. I'm indifferent on Martinez because I think he's a victim of incompetence of his boss.

We need an innovator at DC. Sort of a Josh Heupel DC that can get more out than the sum of the parts. If a DC needs more talent than the next guy, well I'm not sure how great of a coach he is.

Whether it's this year, or next year, or the following year, he'll never field a defense that can be complementary to the offense.

Oh I agree ..I'm just saying CWM will take the fall for Banks this season..as they say **** rolls downhill....

 

[MoCo_Vol]

Something else I just noticed looking at stats...

Lowest offensive penalties of the season

Virginia 2 against Tennessee
Florida 5 against Tennessee
UTSA 5 against Tennessee
South Carolina 5 against Tennessee
Texas A&M 11 against Tennessee
Alabama 1 against Tennessee
Kentucky 4 against Tennessee
UConn 6 against Tennessee
Missouri 7 against Tennessee
Georgia 2 against Tennessee

The bold are the only teams where we weren't one of their lowest for the season. I don't know how many of those were live ball penalties though, but I'd be surprised if many were actual OL holding calls.

 

[jakez4ut]

I don't think the wheels are falling off by any means. I posted earlier that the record isn't what people are pointing to, it's the way we lost. We got blown out of all our losses, not competitive against any team with a pulse.

The problem this year was lack of good QB play and another, 3rd year of a bad defense. It's my opinion we will never compete for anything meaningful as long as Tim Banks is the DC.

For this year to be a success, we needed the defense to take a step forward to offset some lost production on offense. That didn't happen. If you look at next year, while I think the offense will improve with Nico, it's not likely to be running on all cylinders. If we portal, similar to last year, I don't see the defense making significant strides. Sure, recruiting is trending the right way but we're still middle of the SEC at #7. Also, those players can't be counted on to contribute significantly as true freshman.

My point is, how long does Banks need to field a competent defense. If he doesn't next year, then can we expect year 5?

i think when you look at the injury at LB losing Pili early and losing Hadden, that really affected the defense. there were more than a couple of games this season where i looked at the defense as a much improved unit, and other times, not so much. we don't adjust well in the game, we definitely didn't adjust to other teams' offensive adjustments, and we need upgrades big time at LB and DB.

if there's a reason to be hopeful it's b/c there is some young talent that we haven't seen yet. and with a lot of the guys that have been here for like 10 years, there's going to be some real competition at some of those spots.

and i think a lot of our short term success is dictated by how well we do in the portal this year. we've not done "bad" mind you. but i think we need more than bodies at OL and DB and maybe even WR. Thornton was a bust up to this point. Thomas was pretty good at OT. Bru's injury hurt big time. Cassels was.....serviceable? im sure i'm forgetting some others.....point being, i think we need a couple of impact players at those positions....while i like this class and last, relying and true freshmen and sophomores to play NOW because they have to is not how you build depth. so we need some upgrades anyway, and we need to be able to work the younger guys in at a good pace...not throw 'em in to the deep end.

i think next year is a ? simply because we don't really have a clue what the roster changes will be right now. i think we probably all share similar positional concerns, and at the same time are excited about what Nico brings to the table. the DL should be good again. RB room is still very good, and if nothing else WR room experience this year. OL depth, TE, LB, DB...all ?'s.

The schedule is "lighter" i guess....Bama and Florida at home, no Missouri...but at OU and UGA, and a sneaky game against NCSU in Charlotte. it looks kinda like this year's schedule...where 8-4 on face value wouldn't surprise me, but i see potential for more. the problem with the schedule, really, is outside those big 4 games, OU, Bama, Florida, UGA...the other conf games aren't gonna really get any juice....you don't get the revenge game against Mizzou. no Shane Beamer to hate on and feel good about destroying....UK, MSU, Vandy and ARk. so 4-4 would feel kinda meh, looking at it right now, making next year's 8-4 feel different that this year's 8-4....i think we felt good about beating USCe down and i'm happy about beating aTm.....love beating a hyped up UK at the Kroger. so in my head 9-3 looks like a good floor to shoot for, but that's going to be dictated by what happens this off season with the roster....so we'll see.

 

[MoCo_Vol]

Definitely
Cooper Mays
Javontez Spraggins
John Campbell
Bru McCoy
Dont'e Thornton
Tyler Baron
Omari Thomas
Elijah Simmons
Doneiko Slaughter

Maybe
Jabari Small - Depends on if there's a better back in the portal. Small is consistent and knows the playbook.
Keenan Pili
Gabe Jeudy-Lally
Wesley Walker
Tamarion McDonald

The maybe's depend on what we could possibly get in the portal.

I'd take back the bold names off your maybe in a heartbeat. I actually think GJL with another off-season could be REALLY good next year. Walker I thought was one of the more consistent guys with Hadden and I'd contribute those two being hurt as a lot of what changed with our pass defense.

 

[knoxvol52]

Ive got a bet. Whats the over/under this place will make it?#nobody wants to work

Insomnia Cookies to open store in Johnson City

JOHNSON CITY, Tenn. (WJHL) — Insomnia Cookies, a national cookie store that specializes in delivery and late-night options will open its first Tri-Cities store in Johnson City’s Earth Fare sh…

www.wjhl.com

Well if they depend on high school kids to work ..then they're screwed....you will lots of retired individuals looking to make ends meet working ...the younger generations work habits are crappy as heck....

 

[mr.checkerboards]

My point is it’s a total crapshoot on hiring new coaches. You never quite know if you are getting Venables or Sal Sunseri. Bob Shoop was supposed to be our Venables, but turned out a bust. We’ve tried that path many times in the past decade or more.

I’m just not a believer that Tennessee is Alabama, being held back by the administration, stubborn coaches and stingy donors. I think we’re a middle third SEC program (especially in the new SEC) and we need coaching stability to sustain quality recruiting, coupled with elite QB play and a few breaks to punch through to the top. That’s what I’m pulling for.

And I think you're very wrong. Even when TN was bad, coaches could still recruit a top 25, we have recruiting grounds all around us, we have one of if not the biggest fan bases all around the country, a top stadium, the money and resources to have a successful program.
Step 1 was getting competence at the top.
Step 2, if you want to play with dogs you better be prepared for fleas. This I think is where our problem is, the people around the program at least say they want to win, but want to put their white gloves on and be prim and proper. To beat Bama, UGA, and OH St, you're gonna have to do things that may not be illegal but may be in a gray area. Same thing with academics, how a kid like Pickens stayed eligible at UGA I'll never understand, but TN needs to take those kids and do those things.

 

[MoCo_Vol]

Was Trey Smith drafted?

He was, round 6th with pick 226

 

[jakez4ut]

Who do you want to see back? I could see Mays, Spraggins, & Simmons staying.

Mays
Spraggins
Campbell
Davis
Baron
big O
Pili
McDonald

i'd say Lampley too b/c we need dept at OL, but i don' t know that he's more than just a body at this point. i think Slaughter hit his ceiling in the UK game in 2022. and i don't really have an opinion on Lally. stay, go, either way....he wasn't bad. i just don't know he's a difference maker.

McCoy....that's a tough one. my gut says yes. we don't have another guy at WR like him....he's a hines ward type. ok, i talked myself in to that. McCoy too.

 

[jakez4ut]

LETS GOOOOOOOOO! HAPPY THANKSGIVING TO MEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

they were SOOOOOOOOOOO bad on Sunday. Pickett sucks too. loved the way Warren ran the ball..... but the offense in general is bad.