The (many) indictments of Donald Trump

#5,702
#5,702
Hunerwadel said:
If you dumb ******s nominate Trump again that's exactly what you will get.
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"We'll huff and puff and blow the house down" is no way to demonstrate your feelings if you lose an election ... especially in a country where everybody is supposed to have equal input. You can complain, but you take your lumps and move on, and try to do better the next time ... unless you can rig an election with unvetted ballots that can come from anybody anywhere.

Threatening revolution if you don't get your way is no different except in degree from what toddlers do when throwing tantrums. It's hardly the case to make for a supposedly educated and classy political group who refer to themselves as "progressive". It's certainly no way to intimidate the other political party into watering down their agenda or throwing you a patsy for the opposing candidate.
 
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#5,703
#5,703
lawgator1 said:
Sad that the GOP is reduced to, if you didn't get convicted, you did nothing wrong.

But that is the Trump playbook. Working with the MAGA resentment class, but we will see in the general.
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Isn't that the rule? Innocent unless proven guilty?
 
#5,707
#5,707
AM64 said:
As long as the other side recognizes that some of us think the last election was rigged. That kind of thing (proof vs belief) cuts both ways.
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I respect your right to have an opinion, even if I don't respect the validity of your opinion. But I'm not sure how a criminal law adage is an appropriate analogy to formulating your opinion on whether someone is fit for the presidency. It almost seems like you're saying there's a "beyond a reasonable doubt standard" for bad acts by a candidate.
 
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#5,710
#5,710
AM64 said:
"We'll huff and puff and blow the house down" is no way to demonstrate your feelings if you lose an election ... especially in a country where everybody is supposed to have equal input. You can complain, but you take your lumps and move on, and try to do better the next time ... unless you can rig an election with unvetted ballots that can come from anybody anywhere.

Threatening revolution if you don't get your way is no different except in degree from what toddlers do when throwing tantrums. It's hardly the case to make for a supposedly educated and classy political group who refer to themselves as "progressive". It's certainly no way to intimidate the other political party into watering down their agenda or throwing you a patsy for the opposing candidate.
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I don't get it Big Dan. All I'm saying is almost any Republican should win in '24 except IMO Donald Trump. He hasn't gained any ground in popularity and no one is going to feel sorry for poor old persecuted Don Trump. I don't want Biden reelected again but it will happen if Trump is on the Ticket. I hope Biden drops out tomorrow.

The last election? Over and done with. Voter fraud is like those little green men. You gotta have proof. You can't just say it happened and make it true.
 
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#5,713
#5,713
AM64 said:
Isn't that the rule? Innocent unless proven guilty?
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Not when it comes to Trump. The progressive liberal nonsense for him is guilty until proven innocent. It’s why the whole world laughs at the progressive left. They are the low IQ idiots of the known world.
 
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#5,714
#5,714
Hunerwadel said:
I don't get it Big Dan. All I'm saying is almost any Republican should win in '24 except IMO Donald Trump. He hasn't gained any ground in popularity and no one is going to feel sorry for poor old persecuted Don Trump. I don't want Biden reelected again but it will happen if Trump is on the Ticket. I hope Biden drops out tomorrow.

The last election? Over and done with. Voter fraud is like those little green men. You gotta have proof. You can't just say it happened and make it true.
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Sorry. I got off the beaten path a bit. I had in my mind something from back up the thread about the country not surviving, and I was thinking riots rather than more impeachments and continual efforts to get Trump. On that track I completely agree that should Trump be reelected, he would be a continual target and the country would suffer. I really think a lot of people are right that if ignored, Trump would have faded away. In the same light the continual attempt to get him while in office creates two negatives - the first being the obvious waste of time like we saw the last go around. The other being that Trump was forced to be defensive, and his temperament and judgement actually diminished by the constant harassment - that serves no one. If Biden were subject to the same by the press, he'd be a blob of jello.

With respect to voter fraud the last time around. I do think it existed but not in the normal sense. With the mail in balloting, it was just too easy to cast ballots without knowing who actually filled them in and without the verification process that in person voting required. In short it "got out the vote" of people who wouldn't normally trouble themselves to show up at the polls. You and I are both old enough to know that there is a lot of stuff that goes on in the world that would evade all but a really determined effort to uncover, and that often it is more convenient to people in power to ignore and sometimes be served by it than to root it out.
 
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#5,716
#5,716
lawgator1 said:
You WANT it to have been rigged. Big difference.
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I believe votes were cast and counted; I have doubts about who cast the votes. You doubtless believe in process being followed in the legal field; in the last election we just expediently tossed the rules by the wayside. Anyone who really thinks that the voter who cast a mail in ballot was identified as the person who voted is a fool. First the person who held the ballot was never identified as would be done when voting in person. Second, unlike when voting in person, someone else could have filled in the ballot. That would be no different from a witness in court never being identified personally and never being challenged for the truth ... hearsay would be perfect admissible, and I believe you would be offended by the lack of procedure.
 
#5,717
#5,717
AM64 said:
I believe votes were cast and counted; I have doubts about who cast the votes. You doubtless believe in process being followed in the legal field; in the last election we just expediently tossed the rules by the wayside. Anyone who really thinks that the voter who cast a mail in ballot was identified as the person who voted is a fool. First the person who held the ballot was never identified as would be done when voting in person. Second, unlike when voting in person, someone else could have filled in the ballot. That would be no different from a witness in court never being identified personally and never being challenged for the truth ... hearsay would be perfect admissible, and I believe you would be offended by the lack of procedure.
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As I said. You WANT it to have been rigged.
 
#5,719
#5,719
lawgator1 said:
As I said. You WANT it to have been rigged.
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oh, no doubt it was rigged. It is the sheer SCALE of the rigging I have trouble with - and that it will now continue to happen until crushed out. Had it just been a one time thing, we could have all just been pissed but moved on with our lives. As it is though, it must be stopped, by nearly any means - while we are still able to - or there simply will be no point in having a national level election anymore, or state level elections in all but the most conservative states either for that matter.
 
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#5,722
#5,722
AM64 said:
A rigged vote would be better than admitting 81M (allegedly) people could be so stupid. Falls under the category of their supposedly proving themselves stupid vs just being suspect.
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That's sort of why I and millions of others found Russian collusion and interference far more palatable than a citizentry that would actually knowingly and willingly elect Trump. It's still to this day beyond my comprehension.
 
#5,723
#5,723
luthervol said:
That's sort of why I and millions of others found Russian collusion and interference far more palatable than a citizentry that would actually knowingly and willingly elect Trump. It's still to this day beyond my comprehension.
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Hillary’s arrogance > Russian Collusion

She took states for granted, not Trump.
 
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#5,724
#5,724
luthervol said:
That's sort of why I and millions of others found Russian collusion and interference far more palatable than a citizentry that would actually knowingly and willingly elect Trump. It's still to this day beyond my comprehension.
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It's the nature of populist movements from either side of the spectrum. You have a group of people who have not participated in the economic boom of the last 28 years, if anything it has destroyed their livelihoods in what seems random from their perspective.

I am absolutely stunned when I sit back and look at the wealth that has been created since 1992. But it has created disparities not seen in American history. Sure there the robber barons of the 19th century, but this has been mind-blowing.

If you're someone left behind in all of this, it makes sense that you would want deep and radical changes and you don't care if the changes are positive or negative, they just want something different. Enter Trump.

And then there are the people who just hate other people whether it's because they're black, or they're Hispanic, or they're asian, or disabled, or they want to immigrate to the US, whatever makes them different. Trump is perfect for them not because he's a bigot but he is willing to channel their bigotry.
 
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#5,725
#5,725
WBO said:
It's the nature of populist movements from either side of the spectrum. You have a group of people who have not participated in the economic boom of the last 28 years, if anything it has destroyed their livelihoods in what seems random from their perspective.

I am absolutely stunned when I sit back and look at the wealth that has been created since 1992. But it has created disparities not seen in American history. Sure there the robber barons of the 19th century, but this has been mind-blowing.

If you're someone left behind in all of this, it makes sense that you would want deep and radical changes and you don't care if the changes are positive or negative, they just want something different. Enter Trump.

And then there are the people who just hate other people whether it's because they're black, or they're Hispanic, or they're asian, or disabled, or they want to immigrate to the US, whatever makes them different. Trump is perfect for them not because he's a bigot but he is willing to channel their bigotry.
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This is what I mean when I refer to the MAGA resentment class. Trump is as much a symptom as he is a cause. But he's found a way to tap in to a wide swath of people that actually celebrates its defiance of fact, it's ignorance of science, it's refusal to acknowledge change.
 
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