The (many) indictments of Donald Trump

#5,451
#5,451
CobbVol said:
You following Peter Strzok ...

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https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/06/politics/trump-strzok-page-deposition/index.html

He who laughs last ....
 
#5,453
#5,453
hog88 said:
I do wonder what the legal differences between the MI 2020 case and this one. Must be some otherwise these people would have been charged.

Rogue electors brief Clinton camp on anti-Trump plan
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Yeah, pretty obvious difference:

Clinton’s strategy was trying to persuade the actual Trump electors to vote for her. Trump’s strategy started with having fake electors submit fake votes.

Not saying I like what Clinton did, and some states had addressed it, resulting in some of the electors being punished.
 
#5,454
#5,454
RockyTop85 said:
Yeah, pretty obvious difference:

Clinton’s strategy was trying to persuade the actual Trump electors to vote for her. Trump’s strategy started with having fake electors submit fake votes.

Not saying I like what Clinton did, and some states had addressed it, resulting in some of the electors being punished.
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How would fake electors submit a vote?
 
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#5,455
#5,455
hog88 said:
How would fake electors submit a vote?
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Actually this is worse

“We’re really doing this on our own,” said Polly Baca, a Democratic elector from Colorado and organizer of “Hamilton Electors,” the group encouraging Republican defections from Trump. “This is something we have to do as electors. This is our responsibility.”


But Clinton will not be able to avoid getting drawn into the Electoral College machinations. That’s because her husband — former President Bill Clinton — is a Democratic elector from New York. Aides to the former president have declined repeated requests for comment on whether he intends to fulfill the role or pass it to an alternate when New York’s Electoral College members convene in Albany on Dec. 19. Baca has indicated that she intends to reach out to all electors — including Clinton — for support.
 
#5,459
#5,459
whodeycin85 said:
The electors allowed to submit those votes are honorary and trend to be party affiliated... So how does the party who lost, who electors are not longer electors submitting those votes?
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What do you mean by “allowed?” What stops the losing electors from submitting votes? I think you’ve hit on the crux of the issue.
 
#5,460
#5,460
SpaceCoastVol said:
source?
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This isn’t new information. It’s been out there since early 2021. It was rehashed during the January 6 committee meetings. It’s probably detailed in the Michigan indictment or related news articles.

Don’t you think that knowing the basics of what happened is a pretty important predicate to deciding whether people should be prosecuted for their actions?

You should know how this works by now: if you want me to go looking for a source to convince you of the existence of info that’s been around for 30 months, I’m going to need you to explain what difference it will make to you if it’s proven or else find some other way to amuse me (usually making a fool of yourself by publicly exclaiming that it didn’t actually happen because I didn’t immediately provide you with a link to something you should have already known and could easily find for yourself will suffice).
 
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#5,461
#5,461
RockyTop85 said:
This isn’t new information. It’s been out there since early 2021. It was rehashed during the January 6 committee meetings. It’s probably detailed in the Michigan indictment or related news articles.

Don’t you think that knowing the basics of what happened is a pretty important predicate to deciding whether people should be prosecuted for their actions?

You should know how this works by now: if you want me to go looking for a source to convince you of the existence of info that’s been around for 30 months, I’m going to need you to explain what difference it will make to you if it’s proven or else find some other way to amuse me (usually making a fool of yourself by publicly exclaiming that it didn’t actually happen because I didn’t immediately provide you with a link to something you should have already known and could easily find for yourself will suffice).
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Yeahhhhhh you are gonna have to use something other than than J6 kangaroo court.
 
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#5,462
#5,462
RockyTop85 said:
What do you mean by “allowed?” What stops the losing electors from submitting votes? I think you’ve hit on the crux of the issue.
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I thought that only the electors of the winning side were allowed to vote? Hence why it's an honorary position....
 
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#5,463
#5,463
whodeycin85 said:
I thought that only the electors of the winning side were allowed to vote? Hence why it's an honorary position....
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I mean I think those are the lawful votes and the only ones that should be counted, but what stops the losers from submitting fake votes? What stops the various next steps that those votes were intended to allow?

It should be common decency and respect for voters, the constitution, and electoral process but in the event that all of that fails to be sufficient I’m fine with criminal prosecution as a backstop.
 
#5,464
#5,464
SpaceCoastVol said:
Yeahhhhhh you are gonna have to use something other than than J6 kangaroo court.
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Yeahhhhhhhhhhh, I don’t.

I know what happened. Showing you that it happened might make you seem like less of an ignorant dipshit and is against my own personal interest in being amused by your ignorant dipshittery.

Give me a better reason to prove it or go look it up yourself (like you should have already done).
 
#5,465
#5,465
RockyTop85 said:
I mean I think those are the lawful votes and the only ones that should be counted, but what stops the losers from submitting fake votes? What stops the various next steps that those votes were intended to allow?

It should be common decency and respect for voters, the constitution, and electoral process but in the event that all of that fails to be sufficient I’m fine with criminal prosecution as a backstop.
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Submit them to who tho... Being honorary shouldnt who ever accepts those votes know that only that parties votes should be accepted.. Because this isn't like these electors are going to a precinct correct.. It's a procedure to accept these votes from my understanding
 
#5,468
#5,468
whodeycin85 said:
Submit them to who tho... Being honorary shouldnt who ever accepts those votes know that only that parties votes should be accepted.. Because this isn't like these electors are going to a precinct correct.. It's a procedure to accept these votes from my understanding
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Electoral votes or “certificates of ascertainment” are submitted to the national archives who merely catalogues them and transmits them to congress to be counted on the appropriate day. We don’t want the national archivist unilaterally deciding which votes are valid anymore than we want the vice President doing it. Right?
 
#5,469
#5,469
RockyTop85 said:
Electoral votes or “certificates of ascertainment” are submitted to the national archives who merely catalogues them and transmits them to congress to be counted on the appropriate day. We don’t want the national archivist unilaterally deciding which votes are valid anymore than we want the vice President doing it. Right?
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Correct but if they are only to accept the party the won electors then it seems they should know who they are and only accept those.... So if say you me and lg are Dem electors for TN.. The archivists know TN won by GOP and therefore would not accept acting other then GoP electors.... Correct
 
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#5,473
#5,473
TN Ribs said:
Accountability, the Rule of Law, and personal responsibility are much stronger.
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That's funny, neither side shows accountability, deference to the rule of law, or accountability. If you cared about any of those things, you would be equally disgusted by both parties. Yet you only seem to care about on parties' issues. Stop pretending you care about any of that. You just want "your side" to beat the other.
 
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#5,475
#5,475
hog88 said:
How? Did they mail them, fax them, email them? Is the submittal of electoral votes not secure or have some authentication process?
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No idea. Don’t know why that’s relevant in light of what I’ve written below.

whodeycin85 said:
Correct but if they are only to accept the party the won electors then it seems they should know who they are and only accept those.... So if say you me and lg are Dem electors for TN.. The archivists know TN won by GOP and therefore would not accept acting other then GoP electors.... Correct
Click to expand...

whodeycin85 said:
Correct but if they are only to accept the party the won electors then it seems they should know who they are and only accept those.... So if say you me and lg are Dem electors for TN.. The archivists know TN won by GOP and therefore would not accept acting other then GoP electors.... Correct
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No.

The archivist doesn’t get to decide which votes to accept. If the archivist is the one who got to decide, then why couldn’t the party who appointed the archivist just run this same scheme for every election with the knowledge that the archivist would only accept their elector’s votes?

Maybe if there was a law that strictly defined which votes the archivist had to select, and could therefore be predictably enforced by courts, but even then I don’t want some appointed flunky resolving a legitimate dispute if one ever arises.

The law that does exist gives the task to congress. It is poorly written but at least the people tasked with the decision are our representatives, unlike the archivist.

There’s not some magical force that prevents the losing party from submitting an alternate certificate of ascertainment. Again, that should be common decency and respect for voters, the constitution, and electoral process but in the event that all of that fails to be sufficient I’m fine with criminal prosecution as a backstop.
 
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