Who knew Dave Ramsey is a Tennessee fan

#5
#5
ButchPlz said:
They're fine if you are like Mike in the OP, with crippling debt. Otherwise there are ways to use managed debt and investment to generate wealth intelligently. His stuff is chemo for people with financial cancer.
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Debt is not a sin but it’s not wise.
 
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#8
#8
Nationdom said:
Debt is not a sin but it’s not wise.
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Again, it depends. If you have opportunities to "buy" someone else's money confidently knowing you can pay it back in the near future, it can open a lot of doors. Much of our country's economic growth has happened because of availability of debt. It helps normal people preserve some liquidity but engage in the market in ways only the wealthiest could in the past.

If you're borrowing to fund your drinking habit, or take vacations you shouldn't be, or buying too much house, or any of those other irresponsible uses, then sure, it's unwise. But to label all debt as "bad" is wrong.
 
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#10
#10
ButchPlz said:
Again, it depends. If you have opportunities to "buy" someone else's money confidently knowing you can pay it back in the near future, it can open a lot of doors. Much of our country's economic growth has happened because of availability of debt. It helps normal people preserve some liquidity but engage in the market in ways only the wealthiest could in the past.

If you're borrowing to fund your drinking habit, or take vacations you shouldn't be, or buying too much house, or any of those other irresponsible uses, then sure, it's unwise. But to label all debt as "bad" is wrong.
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Agree with your thoughts but credit also allows vendors and manufacturers to inflate the cost of their products. Credit is like insurance in that there are certain items you would not be able to afford without it. For instance, the cost of healthcare exploded with the concept of insurance. Before insurance, healthcare was affordable and contained. Something happens with goods bought with credit. Not to mention that we are an impatient society.
 
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#11
#11
I attended FPU several years ago and his principles got me back on track and out of debt. He gives a lot of common sense solutions that people for some reason just need to be told what to do. We still follow his principles for the most part, including using cash envelopes. However, a lot of his advice is just simply not feasible, such as manual underwriting for a mortgage, only being 25% of your income. It’s very expensive to live here in SoCal and his principles would make it impossible to live here. That being said, I really like Dave and am a fan of his teachings.
 
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#12
#12
Nationdom said:
For a certain individual it could be but the Bible does not say “debt is a sin”
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Honest debt like a Home Mortgage or Car Note is ok. Charging stuff on your credit card just because you can ; knowing you probably won't pay it off; That is a sin sure as stealing. Same thing. IMO.
 
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#13
#13
JohnWardForever said:
Honest debt like a Home Mortgage or Car Note is ok. Charging stuff on your credit card just because you can ; knowing you probably won't pay it off; That is a sin sure as stealing. Same thing. IMO.
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I agree on home as long as it’s a 15 year mortgage but don’t agree with a car note. And agree with credit cards being bad
 
#14
#14
Appreciate that Ramsey has helped many people.

We have not lived by his principles and have done very well. We don't carry credit card debt... we do use our credit to our benefit. We pay our bills in full and have never defaulted on anything.
 
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#15
#15
JohnWardForever said:
Honest debt like a Home Mortgage or Car Note is ok. Charging stuff on your credit card just because you can ; knowing you probably won't pay it off; That is a sin sure as stealing. Same thing. IMO.
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Yes. Taking a loan you do not intend to pay back is sin and dishonest. But where does the Bible specifically say that you cannot take out a loan for anything?

Our credit rating is as close as a person can get to maxed out. We borrow money and have a long history of paying it back.
 
#16
#16
Nationdom said:
I agree on home as long as it’s a 15 year mortgage but don’t agree with a car note. And agree with credit cards being bad
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They only cause issues when people buy things they can't afford, and the credit card companies rely on that with predatory interest rates.

I used to think credit cards were bad, but I use one to buy groceries, gas, and other needed purchases. Pay it off every month and rack up points. Wife and I took a vacation last year almost completely paid for with points. If you do your homework and use it smartly a credit card can be useful.
 
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#18
#18
Vol737 said:
Depends on how you use it.
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Going into debt is not wise. Even at 0% it’s not wise because you are still at risk. Pay cash for everything, including home if able. And if you can’t pay cash or get a 15 year then you need to move or increase your income. Too many people think they deserve to live in a certain neighborhood or drive a certain car. They are putting their future at risk and have no self control. I know many people like this as I’m sure most of y’all do. Average car payment is $700 now.
 
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#19
#19
rjd970 said:
They only cause issues when people buy things they can't afford, and the credit card companies rely on that with predatory interest rates.

I used to think credit cards were bad, but I use one to buy groceries, gas, and other needed purchases. Pay it off every month and rack up points. Wife and I took a vacation last year almost completely paid for with points. If you do your homework and use it smartly a credit card can be useful.
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Your points are coming from the single mom who can’t meet her minimum. In the largest study ever done on millionaires, over 10k of them, little to non said they got there by using credit cards to accumulate points.
 
#20
#20
Nationdom said:
Your points are coming from the single mom who can’t meet her minimum. In the largest study ever done on millionaires, over 10k of them, little to non said they got there by using credit cards to accumulate points.
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His points are coming from the merchants from whom he makes purchases. The credit card company takes a percentage of each of his transactions as their fee for processing them.
 
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#21
#21
ButchPlz said:
They're fine if you are like Mike in the OP, with crippling debt. Otherwise there are ways to use managed debt and investment to generate wealth intelligently. His stuff is chemo for people with financial cancer.
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Very true. Debt is a tool in our society, and used wisely, one can wield it to produce value and derive benefit from that value. Used poorly, well, that's when the "cut up your credit card" schtick does have some merit. Dave gives structure to those who use it poorly.

Nonetheless, debt is a tool and not the boogey-man. There are some people who decry the reality of easy money and easy debt in the modern world, and for a long time I was one of them - in some ways perhaps I still am. But it is reality, and part of that reality is that even if you don't play by the system's rules, the next person can and will. True of any system of organization, I suppose, but, there it is.
 
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#22
#22
Nationdom said:
Your points are coming from the single mom who can’t meet her minimum. In the largest study ever done on millionaires, over 10k of them, little to non said they got there by using credit cards to accumulate points.
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Who even came close to making the claim that got to be a millionaire by accumulating credit card points?
 
#25
#25
allvol123 said:
Some people should not have a credit card.

If you have common sense and some discipline, it is silly not to take advantage of they points system the offer.
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Hey I’m not going to get mad at you if you chose to use credit cards. I personally don’t and don’t think anyone should.
 
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