Rick Barnes discussion (merged)

[Chris4Vols22]

The pinnacle of Barnes's tenure here was the '18-19 season, and that's not debatable - nearly 5 years removed at this point. The argument that the program is on an upward trajectory is shaky at best, but that's not to say it's in a bad spot. I am very hesitant to expect outstanding results for this coming season, as we still only have one PG and have invested a lot in the transfer portal of which has thus far produced 0 players that have met expectations. Maybe we really are a top-10 team, and maybe the results of this coming season will reflect that, but that's not what I'd put my money on at this time.

 

[mr.checkerboards]

The pinnacle of Barnes's tenure here was the '18-19 season, and that's not debatable - nearly 5 years removed at this point. The argument that the program is on an upward trajectory is shaky at best, but that's not to say it's in a bad spot. I am very hesitant to expect outstanding results for this coming season, as we still only have one PG and have invested a lot in the transfer portal of which has thus far produced 0 players that have met expectations. Maybe we really are a top-10 team, and maybe the results of this coming season will reflect that, but that's not what I'd put my money on at this time.

It's not even any of that which bothers me. Anytime you have this conversation it always turns into but what about Green, Peterson etc...... I understand our AD ignored basketball in the past so because of that just assuming we can't do better is insane. There is more money coming into TN athletics than ever before, we have competent adults in charge for the first time in a long time. I'd rather have a young coach that you can give the program too that can grow with the program.
TGO pointed out the Weeklys earlier, I'm not sold that Karen will ever get it done, I really want to see how next years roster does and where the season goes, if they're not a solid team then I think there's an argument that we need to make a change there too.
But the two most exciting programs on campus at the moment have young coaches with programs trending to places they've never been becore. Vitello has made the postseason. 4 times already with two Elites Eights, in 6 years. Year 2 Heupel has a really had football program in the top 5 and winning NY6 bowl games against one of the more dominant teams in college football in the last 10 years. Men's basketball is just stagnant.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

You can't have a conversation without insulting someone can you?

I do all the time. But stupid posts deserve to be ridiculed. Your fantasy about pushing Barnes out of his job is as ridiculous as posts come.

 

[mr.checkerboards]

I do all the time. But stupid posts deserve to be ridiculed. Your fantasy about pushing Barnes out of his job is as ridiculous as posts come.

I lurl through here all the time, I have never seen you have a respectful conversation with anyone who has a differing opinion of yours about Barnes.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

It's not even any of that which bothers me. Anytime you have this conversation it always turns into but what about Green, Peterson etc...... I understand our AD ignored basketball in the past so because of that just assuming we can't do better is insane. There is more money coming into TN athletics than ever before, we have competent adults in charge for the first time in a long time. I'd rather have a young coach that you can give the program too that can grow with the program.
TGO pointed out the Weeklys earlier, I'm not sold that Karen will ever get it done, I really want to see how next years roster does and where the season goes, if they're not a solid team then I think there's an argument that we need to make a change there too.
But the two most exciting programs on campus at the moment have young coaches with programs trending to places they've never been becore. Vitello has made the postseason. 4 times already with two Elites Eights, in 6 years. Year 2 Heupel has a really had football program in the top 5 and winning NY6 bowl games against one of the more dominant teams in college football in the last 10 years. Men's basketball is just stagnant.

Wasn’t Karen Weekly just in the Final Four?

Stagnant basketball? One year removed from just the 2nd SECT Championship in 40+ years. The Battle 4 Atlantis champion versus a loaded field. Wins over #1 and #3 in the country.

Sweet 16s mean only 8 teams went further AND the NCAAT is a flawed event to measure the overall success of a non-blue blood program. Single elimination. Made for TV seedings. Inconsistent, ****** officiating.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

I lurl through here all the time, I have never seen you have a respectful conversation with anyone who has a differing opinion of yours about Barnes.

I said that your Barnes bashing posts are dumb. That isn’t defined as a personal attack.

 

[mr.checkerboards]

Wasn’t Karen Weekly just in the Final Four?

Stagnant basketball? One year removed from just the 2nd SECT Championship in 40+ years. The Battle 4 Atlantis champion versus a loaded field. Wins over #1 and #3 in the country.

Sweet 16s mean only 8 teams went further AND the NCAAT is a flawed event to measure the overall success of a non-blue blood program. Single elimination. Made for TV seedings. Inconsistent, ****** officiating.

Correct she was, but it was an extremely loaded roster. That her and Ralph had built. I want to see what she can build on her own. Also she needs to give up pitch calling responsibilities she isn't good at it, and that's not just coming from me, that's a common theme in the LV forums.

As far as that S16 game, I've said it many times..... yes the officials made some terrible calls late, but sitting Grant at the start of OT and letting Purdue get all the momentum never gave TN a chance and thats a coaching issue.

 

[walkenvol]

I predict Danny White would loose his job within 3 years after firing Barnes. You keep referencing Texas - what happened there after firing Barnes? They grabbed the hottest young coach in Smart who promptly couldn’t make the tourney. Barnes has been getting us in the tourney consistently. Can’t go far if you’re not in and there’s no evidence to prove the next coach will be successful. It’s been proven over and over again that hiring a new coach is a crap shoot.

All you seem to value is a deep tournament run which doesn’t make you unique. I still don’t comprehend how folks with that opinion place zero value on running a winning program with student athletes who represent the university in a positive light. With all the recent successes some still don’t appreciate what he’s doing / done. The “if you ain’t first your last” mentality of some of our fanbase is really laughable to me. We’ve got a good thing going and should appreciate it and hang onto it until it’s not. JMO, TIFWIW, AARP

 

[mr.checkerboards]

I predict Danny White would loose his job within 3 years after firing Barnes. You keep referencing Texas - what happened there after firing Barnes? They grabbed the hottest young coach in Smart who promptly couldn’t make the tourney. Barnes has been getting us in the tourney consistently. Can’t go far if you’re not in and there’s no evidence to prove the next coach will be successful. It’s been proven over and over again that hiring a new coach is a crap shoot.

All you seem to value is a deep tournament run which doesn’t make you unique. I still don’t comprehend how folks with that opinion place zero value on running a winning program with student athletes who represent the university in a positive light. With all the recent successes some still don’t appreciate what he’s doing / done. The “if you ain’t first your last” mentality of some of our fanbase is really laughable to me. We’ve got a good thing going and should appreciate it and hang onto it until it’s not. JMO, TIFWIW, AARP

Yeah not every hot shot young coach works out, that's a given, but plenty do. TN basketball is where TN football was in the 90's( maybe not quite the same spot but the analogy fits.) When the football program was turned over to Fulmer what happened? Or even Stoops at Oklahoma, he was the old guard, he had them good but couldn't get over the hump, Lincoln came in and took the program to new heights.
Waiting too long to make the change is just as determental as making the wrong change.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

If he had a better history at Texas, I wouldn't say it, but when you look at his whole body of work that's what he is.

His whole body of work includes E8’s & F4…don’t say whole body and now rebuttal with throwing in “x” number of years caveat.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

Correct she was, but it was an extremely loaded roster. That her and Ralph had built. I want to see what she can build on her own. Also she needs to give up pitch calling responsibilities she isn't good at it, and that's not just coming from me, that's a common theme in the LV forums.

As far as that S16 game, I've said it many times..... yes the officials made some terrible calls late, but sitting Grant at the start of OT and letting Purdue get all the momentum never gave TN a chance and thats a coaching issue.

You don’t have all of the information about coaching decisions. Maybe Grant was out of gas and the staff wanted him to get some extra rest. Tired players commit fouls. Grant fouled out of that game. If he had started OT he wouldn’t have played more minutes

 

[bleedingTNorange]

The pinnacle of Barnes's tenure here was the '18-19 season, and that's not debatable - nearly 5 years removed at this point. The argument that the program is on an upward trajectory is shaky at best, but that's not to say it's in a bad spot. I am very hesitant to expect outstanding results for this coming season, as we still only have one PG and have invested a lot in the transfer portal of which has thus far produced 0 players that have met expectations. Maybe we really are a top-10 team, and maybe the results of this coming season will reflect that, but that's not what I'd put my money on at this time.

Not debatable???

3 year run including 18-19 season:
73-31 (70.1%)
2 NCAAT
1 S16
1 SEC Regular Season Split Title

Current 3 year run:
70-28 (71.4%)
3 NCAAT
1 S16
1 SECT Championship

 

[Chris4Vols22]

Not debatable???

3 year run including 18-19 season:
73-31 (70.1%)
2 NCAAT
1 S16
1 SEC Regular Season Split Title

Current 3 year run:
70-28 (71.4%)
3 NCAAT
1 S16
1 SECT Championship

Correct, the point in time of Barnes's pinnacle at Tennessee ('18-19) is not debatable. Like I said, the program is not in a bad spot. The stats you've quoted are nice, but they do not support the idea of the program being on an upward trajectory; they suggest a plateau with a nice view. I am not, and I never have, discounted any of Barnes's accomplishments. I am simply allocating to Barnes his fair share of blame for the team's shortcomings instead of looking for any and every other scapegoat (not saying that you in particular are doing this; I think your takes are much more fair than many others).

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Correct, the point in time of Barnes's pinnacle at Tennessee ('18-19) is not debatable. Like I said, the program is not in a bad spot. The stats you've quoted are nice, but they do not support the idea of the program being on an upward trajectory; they suggest a plateau with a nice view. I am not, and I never have, discounted any of Barnes's accomplishments. I am simply allocating to Barnes his fair share of blame for the team's shortcomings instead of looking for any and every other scapegoat (not saying that you in particular are doing this; I think your takes are much more fair than many others).

If you are drawing a line based on results that overall trajectory is upwards, not downwards or a plateau with a nice view, the line is moving upwards. It’s hard to point to 1 single season and say definitely that’s the peak that will ever be reached, especially when the results overall don’t really support that.

 

[Delmar]

No, you give him a nice retirement package behind the scenes and publicly say he decided to step down.
Dont wait until the program is on a downtrend to get the next guy, do it now while things are looking good all across Knoxville.

Ain’t going to happen. Unless there is a downturn in the program (which I do not see), Barnes is there until he decides to retire. You and the other Barnes haters might as well learn to live with it because that’s the way it is. Waste of time to discuss it further.

 

[calban]

I've come to accept the basketball program as Stable, Consistent (in some good and some bad ways), but Predictable. Difference for me is that now we at least have something in between seasons to look forward to. I'm excited about football again and I recently found myself watching baseball in the wee hours of the morning as the 102 MPH fastballs whizzed past our opponents. As far as the other BBall, I remind myself to, "Enjoy it, we could be KY." But that's just me. I understand the Frustrated.

 

[BernardKingGOAT]

@livefaith, im not going to crowd the other thread with this argument.
I think we have reached as far as Barnes will ever take the program, I get being scared of change because previous admins have not given basketball a second thought, but with the leadership we have in charge, I think we can get someone younger in with a higher ceiling.

List the name(s)

 

[BernardKingGOAT]

Go back and look at his time at Texas, Its been nearly 2 decades since hes made it past the S16. Hes not going to get any further, the best team hes had and probably will ever have in Knoxville, he still couldnt get past the S16. He is what he is, id rather find a coach that can make those deep runs in March, and I think with DW at the helm we could pull someone better than people think.

Once again, name them.

You don't really know, do you?

Aren't you the guy who claimed you could coach a game better than Barnes?

 

[BernardKingGOAT]

But hes not improving, we know what he is. Id rather he go find a young energetic coach more in line with Vitello and Heupel and give him time then continue to let the basketball program toil around and be ok but not great.

We're a hell of a lot better than "ok". We have one if the best programs in the country. Barnes is one of the best coaches in the country.

 

[BernardKingGOAT]

I understand who Danny hired and didnt hire, but coaches want a competent admin, Danny is that.

Also, im not sure bringing in a bunch of mid major roster fodder is considered reloading, the roster is pretty bad for this upcoming season.

People who actually have credibility say the exact opposite about the roster.

You"re a troll, aren't you?

 

[mr.checkerboards]

You don’t have all of the information about coaching decisions. Maybe Grant was out of gas and the staff wanted him to get some extra rest. Tired players commit fouls. Grant fouled out of that game. If he had started OT he wouldn’t have played more minutes

Sure the SEC POY was going to ask to be sat at the end of that game because he's tired. Grasping at straws with this one.

 

[VolsAgainstTheWorld15]

I understand who Danny hired and didnt hire, but coaches want a competent admin, Danny is that.

Also, im not sure bringing in a bunch of mid major roster fodder is considered reloading, the roster is pretty bad for this upcoming season.

Huh? I’m not sure I buy into some of the top 10 talk that has bounced around, but if you think the roster is “pretty bad” then you’re either trolling or, with all due respect, you don’t have a clue what you’re talking about.

 

[VolGee4]

Correct, the point in time of Barnes's pinnacle at Tennessee ('18-19) is not debatable. Like I said, the program is not in a bad spot. The stats you've quoted are nice, but they do not support the idea of the program being on an upward trajectory; they suggest a plateau with a nice view. I am not, and I never have, discounted any of Barnes's accomplishments. I am simply allocating to Barnes his fair share of blame for the team's shortcomings instead of looking for any and every other scapegoat (not saying that you in particular are doing this; I think your takes are much more fair than many others).

The problem with this argument is that going from no NCAAT to the SS is a huge jump in program status. Getting over the hump to an EE is very tough.

It’s akin to an amateur golfer improving from a 12 handicap to a 6. But getting to less than a 4 from there is very difficult. It’s not the same jump. That “plateau” is a hell of a status for a program that has gone stretches of being dreadful. One day, this fan base will realize how special this run has been.

 

[mr.checkerboards]

Huh? I’m not sure I buy into some of the top 10 talk that has bounced around, but if you think the roster is “pretty bad” then you’re either trolling or, with all due respect, you don’t have a clue what you’re talking about.

Too many minutes will be going to mid major roster fodder and then it's expecting 2 guys in Aidoo and Mashak to take major, pretty unrealistic steps forward to be good.

 

[walkenvol]

Too many minutes will be going to mid major roster fodder and then it's expecting 2 guys in Aidoo and Mashak to take major, pretty unrealistic steps forward to be good.

Both were top 50 guys in their 3rd seasons and both have shown spurts of excellent play. I don’t think it’s a reach to expect to see a higher percentage of excellence from Aidoo and Mashack. JMO TIFWIW, AARP