Gun control debate (merged)

#27,127
#27,127
hog88 said:
Then so would any new law you want to pass.
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Some laws are harder to break than others.

It's easier to lie on a form, than it is to convince a legal dealer to break the law by selling you more guns than he is allowed.
 
#27,130
#27,130
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#27,132
#27,132
Gun crazies always like to refer to the "criminals" who commit crimes/mass shootings with guns. Many if not most of the people who commit gun-violence
crimes are first-time offenders. There is no line separating gun-toting "criminals" and law-abiding gun owners. They overlap--that's the problem. Law-abiding guns owners become criminals, for many different reasons. This attempt to demarcate between "good guys with guns" and "bad guys with guns" is nonsense.
 
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#27,133
#27,133
luthervol said:
Then why did you even ask?
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I asked to point out that you made a false, or at least, unsubstantiated claim to justify your bs. that he bought all the guns in a short time.

Its quiet typical of you on the subject matter. and I could be wrong but, I believe the 1 per month was below some previous acceptable thresholds you had thrown out. so in that regard it was also show that you are inconsistent as always, and always trying to take more.
 
#27,134
#27,134
luthervol said:
That line is different for every felon.
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ok, but what line would you make?

this is the problem with your rational and reasonable bs. You claim to want things because it will fix the problem. you are then informed that those rational and reasonable things already exist in practice. and that those rational and reasonable measures don't actually work, which matches what we say. you then have to jump to the next thing to try and take away even more claiming that this new thing is actually the rational and reasonable thing, and it will work. it will be totally different than the previous rational or reasonable thing that you thought would work.
 
#27,135
#27,135
turbovol said:
Gun crazies always like to refer to the "criminals" who commit crimes/mass shootings with guns. Many if not most of the people who commit gun-violence
crimes are first-time offenders. There is no line separating gun-toting "criminals" and law-abiding gun owners. They overlap--that's the problem. Law-abiding guns owners become criminals, for many different reasons. This attempt to demarcate between "good guys with guns" and "bad guys with guns" is nonsense.
Click to expand...
lol, another false narrative due to sampling bias. The mass shootings YOU hear about may be performed by people with no criminal past. but that does not make up "most", and depending on the definition of "many" wouldn't qualify. the vast majority of mass shootings are by gang members. You just don't hear about the daily mass shooting because it was gang A shooting gang B, and that doesn't push a narrative. Instead the media has to push the obvious bs that many if not most of the mass shootings are good guys turned evil by guns.

the media runs false equivalency into their stories so that the mass consumer, who doesn't do their own homework, doesn't know the difference. They talk about the "good guy" gone bad for this shooting, and then just throw in all these other shootings into the same category without actually saying the majority were good guys gone bad. they left it unsaid and let the audience fill in the blanks.
 
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#27,136
#27,136
it also helps their narrative after Obama changed the definition of mass shootings.

It used to be 4 dead, excluding the shooter. Now 4 people don't even have to be shot, and it counts as a mass shooting, and the criminal is included in that 4. I do believe cops shootings also got thrown in where it wasn't previously, but I could be wrong on that. that was another way they got mass shootings to be more of a problem than they are. just change the definition until they got the results they want.
 
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#27,140
#27,140
hog88 said:
Oh, you wanted me to provide the data proving you are FOS? Ok here you are.

Past year methamphetamine users U.S. 2009-2021 | Statista

Methamphetamine Use, Overdose Deaths, and Arrests Soared From 2015 to 2019

Many more where those came from showing meth use has increased since 2005 when it became federal law to regulate the amount of drugs with Pseudoephedrine that can be purchased.
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Please. The federal law came about because of the massive growth in use. Everyone knew it was a growing problem that was quickly becoming epidemic. There is no possible way to know how much greater the growth would have been without the laws which were enacted.

It's like if a hurricane is forecasted to hit a city. You put out sand bags, board up windows, and issue evacuation orders. The hurricane causes massive property damage and some loss of life. No one would even dream to say, "see all of those precautions and evacuation orders were ineffective because we still had massive property damage and loss of life."
That's idiotic.
A reasonable person understands that even though it was horribly bad, it could have and would have been worse.

Same with meth. It was a hurricane that could not be stopped. You could only try to lessen the damage.

Our crazy gun culture is sort of in the same category.
 
#27,142
#27,142
turbovol said:
Gun crazies always like to refer to the "criminals" who commit crimes/mass shootings with guns. Many if not most of the people who commit gun-violence
crimes are first-time offenders. There is no line separating gun-toting "criminals" and law-abiding gun owners. They overlap--that's the problem. Law-abiding guns owners become criminals, for many different reasons. This attempt to demarcate between "good guys with guns" and "bad guys with guns" is nonsense.
Click to expand...

The data doesn’t back that up at all. Once again white Americans own the majority of guns in this country, are more likely to own guns, are legally allowed to own more guns (lower felony rates), and commit far less homicides, gun crimes, and violent crimes in general.

Yes, there’s a major difference between law abiding gun owners and criminals
 
#27,143
#27,143
LouderVol said:
I asked to point out that you made a false, or at least, unsubstantiated claim to justify your bs. that he bought all the guns in a short time.

Its quiet typical of you on the subject matter. and I could be wrong but, I believe the 1 per month was below some previous acceptable thresholds you had thrown out. so in that regard it was also show that you are inconsistent as always, and always trying to take more.
Click to expand...
He did buy them in a short amount of time. I'm not sure what all thresholds I have thrown out. You guys seem to pay a lot more attention to those than I do.
My whole point has always been - "I don't know; it's negotiable, there is room for compromise."
I'm just kind of the idea guy.
 
#27,144
#27,144
LouderVol said:
ok, but what line would you make?

this is the problem with your rational and reasonable bs. You claim to want things because it will fix the problem. you are then informed that those rational and reasonable things already exist in practice. and that those rational and reasonable measures don't actually work, which matches what we say. you then have to jump to the next thing to try and take away even more claiming that this new thing is actually the rational and reasonable thing, and it will work. it will be totally different than the previous rational or reasonable thing that you thought would work.
Click to expand...
I only read the first sentence.
I have never claimed anything will fix the problem.
In fact I will state again "NOTHING WILL FIX THE PROBLEM".
I just want rational and reasonable regulations and restrictions that will minimize the problem and the resulting damage to society.
 
#27,148
#27,148
Vol8188 said:
The data doesn’t back that up at all. Once again white Americans own the majority of guns in this country, are more likely to own guns, are legally allowed to own more guns (lower felony rates), and commit far less homicides, gun crimes, and violent crimes in general.

Yes, there’s a major difference between law abiding gun owners and criminals
Click to expand...
White gun owners commit far more homicides, gun crimes, and violent crimes than white non-gun owners.
 
#27,149
#27,149
luthervol said:
Are you nuts?
Innocent people are always punished because of the crimes of others.
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And that is ok for you? What if they limited your access to cars/driving because we had intoxicated people driving? No driving for you after 8pm because that is when drunk people are on the road.
 
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