The DeSantis containment thread -- all things DeSantis go here

[clarksvol00]

It didn't happen on his watch . There is the proof. Joe has dementia and spends the better part of his day be handled. Xi and Putin have enough spies to know. Xi will act on Taiwan and probably has enough on the Biden's to earn nothing more than some sanctions. Everyone can have a Ukrainian flag and a Taiwan flag on their social media . That'll fix it. I feel sorry for Taiwan.

Is this hypothetical question going to absolve Joe and his handlers ? Trump is not the president and probably won't be again. If they would have left him alone he wouldn't have ran again. I believe that.

Love him or hate him Trump kept our young men and women out of a another useless war .

Correlation does not equal causation. Let me know if you come up with any Trump foreign policy positions that you think kept putin from invading Ukraine.

 

[NCFisher]

How am I overlooking freedom of association for the employee or customer? Nobody is forcing people to patronize or work for an employer that requires the jab. I hate to tell you this but employers already are entitled to a certain level of control over employee medical history. There are pre-employment physicals, drug screens and ability to preform physicals done daily as a condition of employment. By banning an employers right to set their employment conditions FL/DeSantis restricted liberty and you’re right. Conservatives need to WTF up and see DeSantis for what he is and that is not conservative.

Speaking of conservatives waking up, no conservative would support punitive legislation against a person or business for political disagreement.

I'll word it differently; if you're not vaxxed, should markets be able to prevent you from shopping for food, clothing, medication, go for a bank transaction, for instance? Bar you from medical treatment? Without arguing whether they can, I say no to that.

I'm well aware of health screenings/fairs/programs in the workplace that is to gauge you're physically able for duty, or incentivize better health and hold down the group's insurance rate. That's quite different from forcing you to take an EUA - experimental - drug, to remain employed or gain employment. A drug that neither prevents acquiring or transmitting the virus. I say no to that, too.

Do employers no longer have the same employment conditions as pre-pandemic? Sure they do, DeSantis has said you can't do this thing. Again, no to forcing a drug that has been shown to injure at a rate that would have had other vaccines already pulled from the market. That's good governance, whatever your other complaints regarding him are.

"for political disagreement" is your characterization; media left does the same. You have to ignore Disney basically saying we're against legislation that prevents K-3 from being exposed to things that are not age appropriate, screw parents and what they want to see in their child's education and in our programming. Again, hard 'no' from me and the good folks in FL.

Disney picked this fight; they aren't owed special status that other corporations don't have, corporatism that conservatives and libertarians alike say they're against. This is where libertarians especially need to open their eyes; when corporations work as proxy enforcers for government policy, a free market - and free country - in which you have choice is a fading fantasy.

 

[NCFisher]

derp

Do you consider yourself a leftist or liberal.
Derp back at you, guy.

 

[RockyTop85]

“To hell with private property rights because I’ve warped reality to the point that they appear to no longer be in the interest of the common good.”

FYP

Last week it was the first amendment and now private property. What’s next for you?

 

[NCFisher]

FYP

Last week it was the first amendment and now private property. What’s next for you?

Whatever piques my curiosity.

So, Disney's property rights have been destroyed because they can't force vaccination on employees, or because FL owes them special status?

 

[Septic]

Do you consider yourself a leftist or liberal.
Derp back at you, guy.

I consider myself an independent - but that's wholly secondary to your assertion that only one side of your political spectrum is capable of understanding scripture.

 

[hog88]

I'll word it differently; if you're not vaxxed, should markets be able to prevent you from shopping for food, clothing, medication, go for a bank transaction, for instance? Bar you from medical treatment? Without arguing whether they can, I say no to that.

I'm well aware of health screenings/fairs/programs in the workplace that is to gauge you're physically able for duty, or incentivize better health and hold down the group's insurance rate. That's quite different from forcing you to take an EUA - experimental - drug, to remain employed or gain employment. A drug that neither prevents acquiring or transmitting the virus. I say no to that, too.

Do employers no longer have the same employment conditions as pre-pandemic? Sure they do, DeSantis has said you can't do this thing. Again, no to forcing a drug that has been shown to injure at a rate that would have had other vaccines already pulled from the market. That's good governance, whatever your other complaints regarding him are.

"for political disagreement" is your characterization; media left does the same. You have to ignore Disney basically saying we're against legislation that prevents K-3 from being exposed to things that are not age appropriate, screw parents and what they want to see in their child's education and in our programming. Again, hard 'no' from me and the good folks in FL.

Disney picked this fight; they aren't owed special status that other corporations don't have, corporatism that conservatives and libertarians alike say they're against. This is where libertarians especially need to open their eyes; when corporations work as proxy enforcers for government policy, a free market - and free country - in which you have choice is a fading fantasy.

Yes, private business should be able to set it's employment and service conditions as they see fit even if they are discriminatory. I'm a firm believer that the free market will correct mistakes. That is freedom all around for everyone. And before you go down the road, I am 100% opposed to the government at any level issuing mandates requiring employees be vaxxed or really mandating any employment conditions.

How will you feel when a Dem administration passes legislation to punish a company for political disagreement with them? Do you support the federal government pressuring credit card issuers to decline charges made in gun stores? It's the same thing, using the power of government to silence dissent and/or punish a business they disagree with. No matter what your political persuasion is it is wrong and dangerous.

 

[Gandalf]

I find it fascinating that all of a sudden, the MSM is deciding to give Trump critical TV time (a complete town hall event with an actual conservative as host) to get his messaging out in an early primary state. It's almost as if they are interested in him winning the primary.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/a...woke_media_trump_agrees_to_cnn_interview.html

I do think Trump and Desantis look at media differently.

Trump has always thought of them as a frenemy, where they were useful tools. He was using them, they were using him. He knew the base would eat it up to tweak them. As much as they learned to hate Trump because of his (relatively new) policy shifts, the MSM couldn't look away because he drove (and still drives) ratings. It was only because of Twitter that Trump was able to do an end run around the media the first time. I think he saw how much difference it made once twitter canceled him and then the MSM blasted him after J6. He completely distrusts them but it warms the cockles of his heart to be spoken about on MSM, especially in a good or neutral light.

Desantis has shown that he really thinks that the MSM are the enemy. Not just in the jaundiced way that every politician looks at reporters who are always out to get a story off of any misstep you make but a real ENEMY, both to his ideology as well as his administration/campaign. I think he sees the progressive left as something akin to the Taliban and considers himself (and the state of Florida) at war with them. Certainly in a political and cultural sense. There can be items to work together on occasionally but either conservatism prevails or the left does and there is no compromise. It is a Jihad, just as much as he sees the progressives dedicated to their version.

With Trump, things are personal. With Desantis, things are principals. I think that makes it harder for Desantis to work with the MSM and I think a tougher path to the primary.

 

[n_huffhines]

The culture war is a disease

 

[hog88]

Correlation does not equal causation. Let me know if you come up with any Trump foreign policy positions that you think kept putin from invading Ukraine.

What foreign policy position or about Biden in general do you think led Putin to invade Ukraine when he did? Go back a little further, what foreign policy position or about Obama in general do you think led Putin to take Crimea when he did?

 

[Gandalf]

The culture war is a disease

Yeah, hard enough to be a kid as it is without your famous parents politics screwing up your head. Its a shame, Gabrielle is a FINE looking woman. Wade is reported to be a Christian but clearly must not read the bible that often lol

 

[NCFisher]

Yes, private business should be able to set it's employment and service conditions as they see fit even if they are discriminatory. I'm a firm believer that the free market will correct mistakes. That is freedom all around for everyone. And before you go down the road, I am 100% opposed to the government at any level issuing mandates requiring employees be vaxxed or really mandating any employment conditions.

How will you feel when a Dem administration passes legislation to punish a company for political disagreement with them? Do you support the federal government pressuring credit card issuers to decline charges made in gun stores? It's the same thing, using the power of government to silence dissent and/or punish a business they disagree with. No matter what your political persuasion is it is wrong and dangerous.

But no employer has an absolute right now; government already sets conditions that are inviolate. You can pass on an Hassidic Jew or black American or someone over a certain age who's otherwise capable, but you better keep it to yourself. I already know you (rightly) oppose gov. vax mandates and we agree.

This isn't a political side I'm taking, so the "Dem administration" comment is misplaced. I oppose government or private industry creating a hot list of gun purchases for whatever usage, or denial of those legal purchases (yes I'm aware FFL dealers must maintain such lists to trace crime guns, a legitimate purpose that could be abused by government). I oppose coerced vaccination, period, by anyone. You own you, you are your property; it is the basis from which all subsequent rights flow, and no one should be allowed to violate that right.

I'm aware of the Disney-DeSantis optics as cast by media/opponents, and that the courts will settle the matter. We'll find out if they assign validity to the assertion that corporations aren't entitled to supra-legal status/tax breaks and the governor is acting upon the will of Floridians or just a political disagreement and retaliation.

 

[n_huffhines]

Yeah, hard enough to be a kid as it is without your famous parents politics screwing up your head. Its a shame, Gabrielle is a FINE looking woman. Wade is reported to be a Christian but clearly must not read the bible that often lol

Why would you assume the parents' politics are at play here? My read is that Dwayne Wade has had immense struggles with this, but he's trying to be a loving and supportive Father. Nothing about Wade suggests he would be driving this. I would guess you fabricated this take on their parenting out of thin air. Impressive.

 

[NCFisher]

I consider myself an independent - but that's wholly secondary to your assertion that only one side of your political spectrum is capable of understanding scripture.

Then you understand the difference between an actual liberal and leftist.

It was a tongue in cheek remark with legitimate basis I didn't think needed blue font; the LEFT doesn't tire of "What would Jesus do?" while either not understanding scripture they point to or purposely miscasting it, to throw something back at people who do and don't. That's it.

 

[NCFisher]

I find it fascinating that all of a sudden, the MSM is deciding to give Trump critical TV time (a complete town hall event with an actual conservative as host) to get his messaging out in an early primary state. It's almost as if they are interested in him winning the primary.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/a...woke_media_trump_agrees_to_cnn_interview.html

I do think Trump and Desantis look at media differently.

Trump has always thought of them as a frenemy, where they were useful tools. He was using them, they were using him. He knew the base would eat it up to tweak them. As much as they learned to hate Trump because of his (relatively new) policy shifts, the MSM couldn't look away because he drove (and still drives) ratings. It was only because of Twitter that Trump was able to do an end run around the media the first time. I think he saw how much difference it made once twitter canceled him and then the MSM blasted him after J6. He completely distrusts them but it warms the cockles of his heart to be spoken about on MSM, especially in a good or neutral light.

Desantis has shown that he really thinks that the MSM are the enemy. Not just in the jaundiced way that every politician looks at reporters who are always out to get a story off of any misstep you make but a real ENEMY, both to his ideology as well as his administration/campaign. I think he sees the progressive left as something akin to the Taliban and considers himself (and the state of Florida) at war with them. Certainly in a political and cultural sense. There can be items to work together on occasionally but either conservatism prevails or the left does and there is no compromise. It is a Jihad, just as much as he sees the progressives dedicated to their version.

With Trump, things are personal. With Desantis, things are principals. I think that makes it harder for Desantis to work with the MSM and I think a tougher path to the primary.

Agree with much of that. I don't think it's a personal ideology battle for DeSantis but what he views as an existential culture war between a constitutional republic and those who wish to fundamentally transform it as Obama put it, into a quasi-socialist or authoritarian society, a distinction without a difference. The left is way out front on this and conservatives are playing catch-up. Even with the few fringers in the House, there are promising people there; the Senate - egads; lots of work to do.

My ears went up when the legislature and DeSantis revoked Disney's special status. I listened to his side of the story, viewed the timeline of events against the backdrop of that broader battle, and decided it's not without merit, optics notwithstanding. I've been quiet on it and content to let the courts work it out, only getting involved upon seeing the silly "fascist...tyrant" denunciations. He's a good representative governor, and I don't know if he has presidential upside, but am willing to see if he jumps in and what his policy positions are. I don't think Trump's a winner in 2024, and view DeSantis as more electable in a general if he could get out of the primary. I think you're on point that the left would rather see Trump nominated.

 

[NCFisher]

Why would you assume the parents' politics are at play here? My read is that Dwayne Wade has had immense struggles with this, but he's trying to be a loving and supportive Father. Nothing about Wade suggests he would be driving this. I would guess you fabricated this take on their parenting out of thin air. Impressive.

"Funches-Wade said in her filing that Wade invited her to one of his Atlanta homes in April, and that during that visit he told her that “a lot of money had been already made and that additional money will be made in relation to our child’s name and gender issue.”

In her objection to Zaya’s name change, Funches-Wade said Wade told her he intended to make their child “very famous due to the name and gender issue” and also informed her that “there would be endorsements/contracts associated therewith.”
Dwyane Wade's ex-wife files objection to daughter Zaya's name change

 

[Gandalf]

Why would you assume the parents' politics are at play here? My read is that Dwayne Wade has had immense struggles with this, but he's trying to be a loving and supportive Father. Nothing about Wade suggests he would be driving this. I would guess you fabricated this take on their parenting out of thin air. Impressive.

I dont question his love for his kid or his faith (because we are all imperfect and what do I know?). But for certain I can say his parenting skills need serious help. I can say that because he is not helping his kid get through whatever mental breakdown they are having but rather moving from the state to where his child can get support to completely mutilate themselves for life.

I have an 11 yo who is on the spectrum (>20% of all trans are autistic). By definition, they don't feel they belong so they are especially susceptible to this tranny BS poison whispered into their ears by these demon groomers and the culture that has begun to worship them (the demon groomers). I cannot claim to be the ideal father I want to be but at least my son knows who he is and is learning what a man is and how to grow into one from a child. Moreover, I don't pimp out my child when they are having issues to the media so that I can stay popular with the in crowd now that my career is over.

 

[NCFisher]

And you think they liked or respected Trump? Are you delusional? The only guys who liked Trump were Putin and the Saudis. Europe loves Biden, especially on Ukraine. You clearly know nothing about international relations.

Of course they do. What's not to like about a country who's protection you've lived under for 70 years, and who foots the bill for wars in your backyard while you fund your social programs instead of your military?

Sure nice to be our little brothers.

 

[n_huffhines]

I dont question his love for his kid or his faith (because we are all imperfect and what do I know?). But for certain I can say his parenting skills need serious help. I can say that because he is not helping his kid get through whatever mental breakdown they are having but rather moving from the state to where his child can get support to completely mutilate themselves for life.

I have an 11 yo who is on the spectrum (>20% of all trans are autistic). By definition, they don't feel they belong so they are especially susceptible to this tranny BS poison whispered into their ears by these demon groomers and the culture that has begun to worship them (the demon groomers). I cannot claim to be the ideal father I want to be but at least my son knows who he is and is learning what a man is and how to grow into one from a child. Moreover, I don't pimp out my child when they are having issues to the media so that I can stay popular with the in crowd now that my career is over.

WTF are you talking about, dude? None of this has anything to do with the point. You baselessly said their politics are corrupting them and their child. That's what we're talking about.

 

[NCFisher]

I'm curious if you feel there are instances where a business is allowed to refuse goods/services to a paying customer. I'm also curious as to what requires a medical provider to accept anyone as a patient.

Sure; I think I respond to these in #2502 and #2512.

 

[Gandalf]

WTF are you talking about, dude? None of this has anything to do with the point. You baselessly said their politics are corrupting them and their child. That's what we're talking about.

Nothing baseless about it. Their boy is 15 yo and thinks he is a girl since before age 12. From an interview:

During an interview with Good Morning America, Dwyane opened up about what it was like learning Zaya identifies as trans, and the ways that she's leading the conversation in their home.

"It was a process for us to sit down with our daughter and find out who she is and what she likes, and not put something on her," Dwyane said. "As parents, we put our hopes and we put our fears on our kids. With Zaya, we decided to listen to her. And she's walking us on the journey."

"I'm not going to sit here and act like we have all the answers," he added. "I'm not going to sit here and act like before our child sat us down that we weren't ignorant parents. When I say we're learning from our 12-year-old, we're literally learning from our child."

I learn from my child too. But when I listen to him say he sucks at something and never will be good at it because he has crippling anxiety and just wants to sit in his room all day, I dont say GREAT IDEA! and help him build a more isolating room. I actually PARENT!!!! and help him through the challenge he is facing. This BS drivel of "our child sat us down". Whatever you want to say about that idiot, he is an all star basketball player and Giselle is a successful actress - both of them over 50. THERE ARE VERY FEW THINGS THAT A 12 YEAR OLD CAN TEACH THEM ABOUT REAL LIFE BUT A HELLUVA LOT THEY CAN TEACH THAT 12 YEAR OLD. Doesnt mean both can't learn from each other but the premise is non sensical. Same idiot idea where teens go to university so they can teach the professor. Completely assinine.

 

[n_huffhines]

Nothing baseless about it. Their boy is 15 yo and thinks he is a girl since before age 12. From an interview:

During an interview with Good Morning America, Dwyane opened up about what it was like learning Zaya identifies as trans, and the ways that she's leading the conversation in their home.

"It was a process for us to sit down with our daughter and find out who she is and what she likes, and not put something on her," Dwyane said. "As parents, we put our hopes and we put our fears on our kids. With Zaya, we decided to listen to her. And she's walking us on the journey."

"I'm not going to sit here and act like we have all the answers," he added. "I'm not going to sit here and act like before our child sat us down that we weren't ignorant parents. When I say we're learning from our 12-year-old, we're literally learning from our child."

I learn from my child too. But when I listen to him say he sucks at something and never will be good at it because he has crippling anxiety and just wants to sit in his room all day, I dont say GREAT IDEA! and help him build a more isolating room. I actually PARENT!!!! and help him through the challenge he is facing. This BS drivel of "our child sat us down". Whatever you want to say about that idiot, he is an all star basketball player and Giselle is a successful actress - both of them over 50. THERE ARE VERY FEW THINGS THAT A 12 YEAR OLD CAN TEACH THEM ABOUT REAL LIFE BUT A HELLUVA LOT THEY CAN TEACH THAT 12 YEAR OLD. Doesnt mean both can't learn from each other but the premise is non sensical. Same idiot idea where teens go to university so they can teach the professor. Completely assinine.

None of this demonstrates what you originally claimed. You keep talking about other stuff now. Stop trying to bury me in BS.

 

[n_huffhines]

Is this the genius that will turn things around for America?

 

[clarksvol00]

What foreign policy position or about Biden in general do you think led Putin to invade Ukraine when he did? Go back a little further, what foreign policy position or about Obama in general do you think led Putin to take Crimea when he did?

I don't know. I didn't say anything about Obama or Biden. I just asked the people that Trump would have stopped this for their reasoning and nobody can back up their position.

 

[Dergibvol]

Nothing baseless about it. Their boy is 15 yo and thinks he is a girl since before age 12. From an interview:

During an interview with Good Morning America, Dwyane opened up about what it was like learning Zaya identifies as trans, and the ways that she's leading the conversation in their home.

"It was a process for us to sit down with our daughter and find out who she is and what she likes, and not put something on her," Dwyane said. "As parents, we put our hopes and we put our fears on our kids. With Zaya, we decided to listen to her. And she's walking us on the journey."

"I'm not going to sit here and act like we have all the answers," he added. "I'm not going to sit here and act like before our child sat us down that we weren't ignorant parents. When I say we're learning from our 12-year-old, we're literally learning from our child."

I learn from my child too. But when I listen to him say he sucks at something and never will be good at it because he has crippling anxiety and just wants to sit in his room all day, I dont say GREAT IDEA! and help him build a more isolating room. I actually PARENT!!!! and help him through the challenge he is facing. This BS drivel of "our child sat us down". Whatever you want to say about that idiot, he is an all star basketball player and Giselle is a successful actress - both of them over 50. THERE ARE VERY FEW THINGS THAT A 12 YEAR OLD CAN TEACH THEM ABOUT REAL LIFE BUT A HELLUVA LOT THEY CAN TEACH THAT 12 YEAR OLD. Doesnt mean both can't learn from each other but the premise is non sensical. Same idiot idea where teens go to university so they can teach the professor. Completely assinine.

Maybe listening was the only way they could help their child? What if the conversation was, if you don't help me or love me for who I am, I am going to die? Maybe they tried therapy and that's why he said the were ignorant? Maybe they told their child it was a mental illness and that's why he said they were ignorant? We don't know the story so I sure as heck ain't going to judge them.

One of my best friends sons decided to transition last year. I had not a clue until I told them that they seemed off, short, and almost reclusive. At that point the friend explained the situation to me. I didn't ask questions and honestly I don't understand it to this day but then again I haven't had to LIVE it. One of these days I'm going to sit down and ask questions to help me understand. In the end I may never understand but I'll respect my friend and their daughter. If they elected to move to make their child feel safer I wouldn't fault them one bit. We all want the same for our children. A happy, purposeful life.