War in Ukraine

#62,356
#62,356
volgr said:
You guys keep going back and forth. One day Russia is a well trained military force the next day they are an poorly trained incompetent military that have a hard time doing the most basic of tasks. Pick one, please.
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After the first couple of months of this war no one has claimed Russia is a well trained military.
 
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#62,358
#62,358
volgr said:
I think Vietnam and the Gulf Wars did far more to hurt enlistment than the tranny stuff (although it certainly isn't helping either). What parent in their right mind would allow their child to enlist and put their life in the hands of these scumbag corrupt politicians?
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:oops:
 
#62,361
#62,361
KB5252 said:
No, we want Russia to lose because they are the aggressor in classic David/Goliath scenario.

One could argue it's you Russia that wants this bloodshed. It's the same reason the Russians are using derogatory slang terms for the people they are oppressing. It's easier to mistreat them. Blame them for everything, when in fact Russia wants the resources and population center of that region and decided to take it when it wasn't given to them. They have utterly destroyed it though, and galvanized a nation against them. Russia will never be able to use this region in peace for decades even if they win it.
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Classic case of confession through projection
 
#62,362
#62,362
volinbham said:
which begs the question of why is the domino theory still so often cited as why Russia must be defeated soundly here.
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Oh they aren’t a threat to say Poland, Germany, or France but their incompetent overwhelming peon horde can still overrun Ukraine, Moldova, and other small ill equipped satellites like that.
 
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#62,364
#62,364
volinbham said:
they can't topple the first domino as we've seen, let alone hold it and advance from there.
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Only because that domino was propped up. No one expected them to survive a month but they did. Then finally the aid started coming. They would have fallen by now without the arms and ammunition influx I don’t see how it could be argued otherwise they didn’t have the stockpiles.
 
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#62,366
#62,366
NorthDallas40 said:
Only because that domino was propped up. No one expected them to survive a month but they did. Then finally the aid started coming. They would have fallen by now without the arms and ammunition influx I don’t see how it could be argued otherwise they didn’t have the stockpiles.
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it may have fallen but being held and used as a launching point seems highly skeptical to me.

it appears the domino theory was exaggerated
 
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#62,368
#62,368
volinbham said:
it may have fallen but being held and used as a launching point seems highly skeptical to me.

it appears the domino theory was exaggerated
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I’d disagree on that they are a threat to the satellites I think fairly obviously

Also if Kiev falls then it’s time to help? That’s the time to commit and try to support a government in exile? My guess is the next take is it’s too late so we need to do better next time. Rinse repeat ad nauseam 🤷‍♂️
 
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#62,369
#62,369
volinbham said:
which begs the question of why is the domino theory still so often cited as why Russia must be defeated soundly here.
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Because Russia's plan has always been ( at least in my lifetime) to take a bite here and a bite there until they have devoured it all. Just because their military has proven to be less than analyst expected doesn't mean that Russia can't or won't try to fix it. I believe we should always push back against Russian aggression, especially when they invade a sovereign nation that borders our NATO allies.
 
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#62,372
#62,372
KB5252 said:
Classic case of can't refute the obvious so I'll just avoid it completely because I can't make a concise argument to the contrary.
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My refutation is that you live in upside down world. Just about everything you wrote applies to the West, not Russia. Russia is the David fighting against the Western aggressor Goliath. Russia is the one who has tried to end this conflict peacefully, only to be met with continued escalation. Russia is not killing western citizens, but Western Death Cult Nations are giving equipment and logistical support to Ukraine knowing that Ukraine will target civilians inside Russia. Russia suffers this provocation in an effort not to escalate this into a nuclear world war that the Western Death Cult seems hellbent on starting.
 
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#62,373
#62,373
volgr said:
You guys keep going back and forth. One day Russia is a well trained military force the next day they are an poorly trained incompetent military that have a hard time doing the most basic of tasks. Pick one, please.
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So do you guys. One day its Russia can take on the whole world with its hand behind its back. Next Russia is a helpless victim and Ukraine shouldn't be fighting back. yet to see you address that dichotomy either.

I have always considered Ukraine a little Russia. Corruption, military, culture, pretty much whatever. In that mindset Russia is a relatively "poorly trained incompetent" military compared to the US, but also well trained when considering who they are actually fighting.

For me its like watching Texas A&M play App State this year. TAMU/Russia has every reason on paper to win. They have better players, better coach, better resources than App State/Ukraine. TAMU/Russia believe they are playing at home, but apparently all of their dire hard fans failed to show up and support them. TAMU/Russia should win, they have every reason to win. But the game still has to be played. Even the best military can lose. History is full of examples. and in this case Russia's sloppiness could cost them the win despite being "more/better" than the Ukrainians.
 
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#62,374
#62,374
volgr said:
My refutation is that you live in upside down world. Just about everything you wrote applies to the West, not Russia. Russia is the David fighting against the Western aggressor Goliath. Russia is the one who has tried to end this conflict peacefully, only to be met with continued escalation. Russia is not killing western citizens, but Western Death Cult Nations are giving equipment and logistical support to Ukraine knowing that Ukraine will target civilians inside Russia. Russia suffers this provocation in an effort not to escalate this into a nuclear world war that the Western Death Cult seems hellbent on starting.
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It applies to both. In this instance it applies to Russia.

Russia started a fight, a fight they didn't count on Ukraine being able to sustain. Russia's terms are we keep what we've taken. Ukraine says the fight ends when you go home. You don't get to invade a neighbor then claim they are the one escalating the conflict. That's utter nonsense.

Civilians get targeted in war. Let's not pretend Russia isn't purposefully targeting civilians, it's a must to claim the slightest shred of intellectual honesty.

Honestly dude, this is why people call you a clown......I don't however. You telling anyone they have things backward is ironic, humorous and sad, all at the same time.
 
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#62,375
#62,375
volgr said:
My refutation is that you live in upside down world. Just about everything you wrote applies to the West, not Russia. Russia is the David fighting against the Western aggressor Goliath. Russia is the one who has tried to end this conflict peacefully, only to be met with continued escalation. Russia is not killing western citizens, but Western Death Cult Nations are giving equipment and logistical support to Ukraine knowing that Ukraine will target civilians inside Russia. Russia suffers this provocation in an effort not to escalate this into a nuclear world war that the Western Death Cult seems hellbent on starting.
Click to expand...
yup, right back to Russia being the helpless victim. Russia "didn't do nuffin".

I miss where all these proxy troops crossed into Russia.

and I like the distinction you make on civilians, apparently those Ukrainian citizens don't count in your math. because this round of nonsense started with Ukrainian citizens dying. Thats where the penalty started, now you are upset that Russian citizens are ALSO dying. if you had your way only Ukrainian civilians would be dying.

and the west is hellbent on starting a nuclear war? Its only because of the west this isn't a nuclear war already. We helped disarm Ukraine from their nukes. we did so by signing a treaty saying we would help them via conventional means if they gave up their nukes. They gave up their nukes, so now we are helping via conventional means. the russian's also signed that treaty. in that treaty they swore to uphold the Ukrainian border as they stood at the time of the treaty. Russia is the one who tore up that treaty, the west is fulfilling it.

The west refused to give lethal aid for a long time after Russia took the Donbas in 2014.
It was only after Russia kept up their military operations in Ukraine that the west began to give lethal aid.
That lethal aid started out as defensive weapons, man portable anti-tank, anti-air weapons, small arms.
It wasn't until the full blown Russian invasion that the west started providing heavy equipment like artillery and armored vehicles. the Russians after getting stopped by the limited artillery began targeting civilians.
The west responded by providing longer range artillery that could strike back. After the Russians suffered from that they went from only hitting specific civilian targets near the front line to wide spread attacks hitting anything civilian in the entire country.
That escalation has lead to the west providing even more advanced artillery and now tanks.

every western "escalation" has been in response to a Russian provocation.

and who was it that came out an debunked that "Russian" missile hitting Poland? The west. seems like that would have been a great opportunity to start that nuclear war you claim we wanted.
Or what about the west escalation of taking western Ukraine/Lviv? That hasn't happened.
what about that invasion of Transnistria? Hasn't happened.

Russia on the other hand?
was never going to invade, just western bs projection. Ooops Feb 2022 happened.
The invasion was just to solidify the Donbas as Russian. Oops they pushed towards Odessa for that land bridge with Transnistria, Kiev was going to fall to change the government, and all along the Belarussian border, even though it was just about the Donbas region.
The invasion was going to be the most peaceful invasion ever, and the civilians weren't going to suffer. Ooops the Russians started blatantly targeting civilians and civilian infrastructure.
The invasion was going to remain limited in scope, Russia only had 150k troops in Ukraine. Ooops Russia had to deploy another 500k men less than a year in.

The Russians have consistently upgraded the intensity of the FIGHT. Saying the western words were the real escalation, while telling you guys to ignore the sticks and stones they used to hurt the Ukrainians, who aren't even the real enemy apparently.
 
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