Kellie Harper discussion/debate thread [merged]

[glv98]

Wes Moore or Jeff Walz. To start

Walz because of body of work? Because if any coach has struggled more this year than Kellie, it's Jeff Walz. He's the co disappointment of the year. Makes it alot harder to raise the salary money he wants. Been there, done that last time.

Wes Moore will be 66 years old soon and went to NC State bc it's his wife's hometown and they intend to retire there. I actually thought he would have been a good hire 5 yrs ago, but file this one away this time.

That's the thing. The mattress burning, twitter liking, pitchforking is fun I guess, but there's a whole Part B to this thing. A replacement. And it has to be right this time. I agree it needs to be a big name, outside the family. But those don't grow on trees, as we found out last time. The worst thing we could do is once again hire the best of whoever is available, willing, and affordable. If we're going to that, might as well keep Kellie who the players love, if not recruits lol.

We knew KJH was a gamble at this level. We knew this year was pivotal. Still a bit of time to go and complete turnaround would be epic, but it's unlikely. Unless she gets a portal haul, recruiting is alarmingly invisible, except a couple of kids who don't yet have their learner's permit. Trajectory not good, to say the least.

Nothing will happen this year, but I think any responsible AD would start laying groundwork early on next year if things continue to stay stuck in the mud. Danny White is a very good one to do it IMO and I don't think he'll knuckle under to the Old Guard. But it's a process to get it right, so ya'll stock up on pitchforks.

Meanwhile, back on planet Earth, we have to beat Ole Miss Thursday night.

 

[volfanstuckinga]

To admit we got this Lady Vol coaching hire wrong. Recruiting seems to be down....we don't win big games anymore....we lose games we shouldn't....and this program is quickly becoming an afterthought on the UT landscape. Softball and soccer are surpassing a program that once commanded respect. I said when we hired Harper that I felt Kara Lawson was the better choice. I was told she was inexperienced and not ready for this job. Well she's got NBA experience, international experience, a media presence, and she's got HER team ranked. Time to end this before it gets worse and bring Kara home.

 

[Majors]

Harper should have been coaching this year like the program's life depended on it...because in many ways, it does....and she hasn't. Instead we get all these head-scratching coaching decisions and lack of recruiting.

Or she is and this is as good as it gets. She is a 20 year coaching veteran in D1 basketball and shows little on and off the court that she can return the program to a Top Tier program.

 

[Majors]

My biggest concern is that we’re not seeing any reason to hope things will get better. Does Tennessee have any top 100 recruits committed in the next 3 classes? We’re going to miss on Cambridge, the #1 player in America in the state Capitol, a city that has provided UT athletics with more talent than any in America…but we’re not even a player with her. So if we’re not able to load up on talent, we’d better be out-coaching people. But we’re also getting out-coached.

This move seems kinda obvious. Especially after waiting too long with Holly. The good news is, we have a great AD now. White will make the right decision and make the right hire. I hope he does it after this season and hires someone who can make an immediate splash with recruits (maybe even save Cambridge). The timing couldn’t be better, since you’re not risking losing any recruits by making a move (which was often a concern when talk of firing Holly came up).

The fact that Cambridge does not have us in her Top 3 should be concerning for any LV fan about the state of the program. It's one thing to lose to SC or UConn as an example as long as we did our best in the final days, but not ruled out before it mattered.

 

[Volfan2012]

The fact that Cambridge does not have us in her Top 3 should be concerning for any LV fan about the state of the program. It's one thing to lose to SC or UConn as an example as long as we did our best in the final days, but not ruled out before it mattered.

Concerning about a lot of players, but not her. We could have any coach in America excepting maybe a relative and we wouldn't be in her top three. The family dislikes Tennessee for more reasons that their women's basketball program. They have a dislike for the school in general. So the situation with her is no ones fault. Other players you certainly have an argument.

 

[cincirick]

After watching Kellie Harper for the past 4 years, I have come to the conclusion and she is Holly Warlick version 2.0 I was lukewarm when she was hired, based on her past record. After 4 almost years, her performance has only solidified my belief. Her teams don't rebouund, play defense, always struggle with turnovers, and seem to always struggle to close out games in the 4th quarter. She has now lost every game to ranked teams this year, after being ranked in the Top 5 preseason. Looking at what Kim Mulkey has done at LSU after less than 2 years makes me ill. Until we hire an upgrade, I am afraid we will never return to our once proud tradition of the Lady Vols. We have Barnes, Heupel, Vitello, et al and need to upgrade the Lady Vols head coach before we end up like the football Vols (before Heupel) for many years to come.

 

[NighthawkVol]

I wasn't a huge fan of the hire at the time. Getting fired from her only power 5 job was a red flag and probably should've precluded her from landing the biggest job in women's basketball. But I got on board and supported her (just like I did with Dooley, Buzz, Serrano, Holly, and the litany of other UT coaches who didn't pan out). I did think the team looked better coached her first year. But I think it's clear that her failure at NC State wasn't a fluke or a result of outside forces. And there is no reason for future optimism, since recruiting is abysmal.

Tennessee needs to move on and land a top notch coach who will put this program back where it belongs. It's a great job. We have a great AD. The shadow of Pat is large, but we are now a decade and 2 coaches removed from her. There are really no more excuses at this point.

 

[luballer]

This was a preseason top 5 team. This was supposed to be the big breakout year. The return to Final Four contention. And it’s not going to be. It’s never going to be with this coaching staff.

This was a preseason top 5 team with a healthy Tamari Key. We never got that. Fans are seeing just how important Tamari was/is to this team. Opposing coaches have been saying it for years that they had to change their game plans offensively and defensively due to Tamari. The one constant player over the last 3 years has been Tamari. She played through injuries/illness and never missed a game. She covered up a lot on defense and allowed the guards to be more aggressive defensively and take gambles. Teams are getting drives to the basket this year that they were very rarely successful on in the last 3 years. If they got past the guards, Tamari was waiting because she was excellent at help side defense. On offense, very few teams tried to play her straight up and more often than not she commanded a double team. She had also become a good passer out of the double team leading to open shots for the guard left open from the double team. With a healthy Tamari this is a top 5 team. After watching every AP ranked team multiple times this year, in my opinion they are still a top 20 team.

 

[Volfan2012]

Let's finish out the season see what happens and then see what the AD does. He is not doing anything until the season is over so we'll have to live with that and see where this goes.

 

[Majors]

Concerning about a lot of players, but not her. We could have any coach in America excepting maybe a relative and we wouldn't be in her top three. The family dislikes Tennessee for more reasons that their women's basketball program. They have a dislike for the school in general. So the situation with her is no ones fault. Other players you certainly have an argument.

As someone stated last time this topic came around, if they had a disdain for the program they would not have visited when Kennedy was back open and had both sisters on campus together. Seems that excuse gets tossed around as it's ok, to soften the blow. CKH had plenty of time to mend that bridge with a clean slate and didn't.

 

[Amb3096]

This was a preseason top 5 team with a healthy Tamari Key. We never got that. Fans are seeing just how important Tamari was/is to this team. Opposing coaches have been saying it for years that they had to change their game plans offensively and defensively due to Tamari. The one constant player over the last 3 years has been Tamari. She played through injuries/illness and never missed a game. She covered up a lot on defense and allowed the guards to be more aggressive defensively and take gambles. Teams are getting drives to the basket this year that they were very rarely successful on in the last 3 years. If they got past the guards, Tamari was waiting because she was excellent at help side defense. On offense, very few teams tried to play her straight up and more often than not she commanded a double team. She had also become a good passer out of the double team leading to open shots for the guard left open from the double team. With a healthy Tamari this is a top 5 team. After watching every AP ranked team multiple times this year, in my opinion they are still a top 20 team.

I'm just more convinced that having Tamari caused Kellie to slack off in prioritizing defense for the rest of the team. It's like she had no plan B in case Tamari got in foul trouble or was otherwise unavailable to play.

 

[Amb3096]

Kellie is articulate, says the right things, and looks the part on the sideline...but at her core regarding the ability to lead this team, yeah...she's basically Holly 2.0. There's a reason that no big time programs came knocking on her door after her NCState tenure until Tennessee called.

 

[Memvol44]

To admit we got this Lady Vol coaching hire wrong. Recruiting seems to be down....we don't win big games anymore....we lose games we shouldn't....and this program is quickly becoming an afterthought on the UT landscape. Softball and soccer are surpassing a program that once commanded respect. I said when we hired Harper that I felt Kara Lawson was the better choice. I was told she was inexperienced and not ready for this job. Well she's got NBA experience, international experience, a media presence, and she's got HER team ranked. Time to end this before it gets worse and bring Kara home.

What games did we lose we shouldn't have?

 

[Majors]

Kellie is articulate, says the right things, and looks the part on the sideline...but at her core regarding the ability to lead this team, yeah...she's basically Holly 2.0. There's a reason that no big time programs came knocking on her door after her NCState tenure until Tennessee called.

Holly's resume at this point towers over Harpers. Those first five years of Holly gets overlooked with downfall of the final 3 years. I'm not a Holly fan, but people forget she had some pretty good years before the wheels fell off.

 

[SGMVols]

Key was a decent player, nothing more. Some of you act like she was Chamique Holdsclaw or Candace Parker. Her loss is not the sole reason, or even really any part of the reason we are underachieving. Most of the losses this year actually occurred while she was playing.

 

[Volfaninfl2]

My biggest concern is that we’re not seeing any reason to hope things will get better. Does Tennessee have any top 100 recruits committed in the next 3 classes? We’re going to miss on Cambridge, the #1 player in America in the state Capitol, a city that has provided UT athletics with more talent than any in America…but we’re not even a player with her. So if we’re not able to load up on talent, we’d better be out-coaching people. But we’re also getting out-coached.

This move seems kinda obvious. Especially after waiting too long with Holly. The good news is, we have a great AD now. White will make the right decision and make the right hire. I hope he does it after this season and hires someone who can make an immediate splash with recruits (maybe even save Cambridge). The timing couldn’t be better, since you’re not risking losing any recruits by making a move (which was often a concern when talk of firing Holly came up).

To answer your question, yes, we have early commits from Nyla Brooks, a top 25 player, for the 2025 class, and we have a commit from the #1 player in the country, a generational phenom, Finley Chastain, in the 2027 class. We are very active in recruiting for future LV teams. As for Cambridge, apparently her family are not University of Tennessee fans.

 

[luballer]

I'm just more convinced that having Tamari caused Kellie to slack off in prioritizing defense for the rest of the team. It's like she had no plan B in case Tamari got in foul trouble or was otherwise unavailable to play.

I can see where you’re coming from with that assessment. I think she did possibly take for granted that Tamari is a very durable player, but most coaches would’ve done the same with a player that had never missed in 3 years. I think Jill was her plan B, but she thought she had more time for her to learn under Tamari this season. Jill was the one player I was hoping the Lady Vols signed as a freshman. I was selfishly wanting her to learn under Tamari and Keyen.

 

[Volfan2012]

To admit we got this Lady Vol coaching hire wrong. Recruiting seems to be down....we don't win big games anymore....we lose games we shouldn't....and this program is quickly becoming an afterthought on the UT landscape. Softball and soccer are surpassing a program that once commanded respect. I said when we hired Harper that I felt Kara Lawson was the better choice. I was told she was inexperienced and not ready for this job. Well she's got NBA experience, international experience, a media presence, and she's got HER team ranked. Time to end this before it gets worse and bring Kara home.

Really need to hold off on Lawson being the answer even if they have only lost three games this year. They haven't played the teams that we've played and the one they did play UConn they lost by 28 points so let's not bring another Lady Vol in so quickly. We probably need to be seeking a legitimate highly experience coach that we don't have to keep repeating this every few years like we did in football. I mean Duke is a fairly good team, but if they had played the Lady Vols schedule they would be looking at about 8 losses just like we are.

 

[luballer]

Key was a decent player, nothing more. Some of you act like she was Chamique Holdsclaw or Candace Parker. Her loss is not the sole reason, or even really any part of the reason we are underachieving. Most of the losses this year actually occurred while she was playing.

Key was never healthy this season. Even in the games she played everyone could tell something was off with her. You can try and diminish her importance, but a healthy Tamari makes a huge difference. She’s no Chamique or Candace, not many players are, but she is definitely better than decent.

 

[esarmstrong]

Holly's resume at this point towers over Harpers. Those first five years of Holly gets overlooked with downfall of the final 3 years. I'm not a Holly fan, but people forget she had some pretty good years before the wheels fell off.

Holly was riding Pat's coat tails and reputation those first years after she took the job. There is very little difference between Holly Warlick and Kelly Harper.

 

[1reVOLver]

Last time I looked there were 361 D1 WBB teams. With her demonstrated recruiting skills, Kellie will keep us in, or near, the top 10%. With her demonstrated player development skills, Kellie will keep us comfortably within the top10%. With her in-game rotations, we will struggle, but will make it into the top 10%.

So far, she has got us to a solid position of “also receiving votes”.

Can she do better?

 

[Majors]

Holly was riding Pat's coat tails and reputation those first years after she took the job. There is very little difference between Holly Warlick and Kelly Harper.

She was, and she also coached the team in Pat's final two years. Holly established herself as a top recruiter before she was given the title of HC. If anything, Holly followed the legend....all Kellie has to be is better than Holly and she falls well short at this point.

 

[Shadowboxer]

Holly and Kelly

 

[Amb3096]

Key was never healthy this season. Even in the games she played everyone could tell something was off with her. You can try and diminish her importance, but a healthy Tamari makes a huge difference. She’s no Chamique or Candace, not many players are, but she is definitely better than decent.

Just her defense made her team MVP. Any offense she provided was a bonus.

 

[Majac]

After watching Kellie Harper for the past 4 years, I have come to the conclusion and she is Holly Warlick version 2.0 I was lukewarm when she was hired, based on her past record. After 4 almost years, her performance has only solidified my belief. Her teams don't rebouund, play defense, always struggle with turnovers, and seem to always struggle to close out games in the 4th quarter. She has now lost every game to ranked teams this year, after being ranked in the Top 5 preseason. Looking at what Kim Mulkey has done at LSU after less than 2 years makes me ill. Until we hire an upgrade, I am afraid we will never return to our once proud tradition of the Lady Vols. We have Barnes, Heupel, Vitello, et al and need to upgrade the Lady Vols head coach before we end up like the football Vols (before Heupel) for many years to come.

OMG!