Kellie Harper discussion/debate thread [merged]

[CPA]

Will have to see if big money donors for Lady Vols are finally ready to accept a coach that is not a former player or from Pat's coaching tree. Fulmer said publicly those were restrictions he faced when Holly was finally fired.

 

[glv98]

Coaching is a problem here, even a blind man can see this.

In the very first minute of the game, Darby loses the player she is guarding...That player bombs an uncontested 3 ball....In the first damn minute, we get out played...

Good coaching would have drilled into the players to closely guard their man, don't play help defense and let your player go...

Nah, there are some coaching issues, but this is not one. I'm sure Tess, a high IQ player, knew her assignment and wanted to fulfill it. But this is a talent issue. Tess gambles and helps off on D bc she can't stay in front of elite players. Neither can most of the rest of our players.

In case anyone forgot how wide the gulf is between good players and elite talent, go back and rewatch this game. True elite talent is at an unbelievable level among the best teams and the gap is widening btw them and the rest of us. Of course it's a vicious cycle, the rich get richer, from the portal, from HS recruiting, from NIL. We are clearly on the outside looking in, notwithstanding what a 14 yr old thinks she'll want to do in 4 years.

Outside the obvious talent of JH and RJ (and possibly Jill) we are stacked with good, not great players who have physical limitations which are unlikely to ever allow them to be elite. They're great kids who represent LV nation well, but I'm afraid most are bumping their heads on their ceilings. KJH is constantly robbing Peter to pay Paul, balancing what these players can contribute vs what they cost us.

IMO we're kind of locked as a good SEC team who beats most of the other second tier teams most of the time. We might sneak up and beat someone really good sometimes (maybe?), or even get on a tear and make a little tourney run. But until we get more top talent in here, we won't go beyond that. And obviously, getting that talent, or hell any talent, is not going well.

I think KJH has at least a couple of years, but the deck is really stacked against an emergence into the big time. I could be way wrong, but I can see Kellie walking away after a couple more years of being stuck in the middling mud. I don't think she'll hang on to the detriment of the program like Holly did.

I also think post Kellie it has to be a splashy, big hire if we can get it. Probably the only way to attract the talent we need.

 

[Majors]

[

Nah, there are some coaching issues, but this is not one. I'm sure Tess, a high IQ player, knew her assignment and wanted to fulfill it. But this is a talent issue. Tess gambles and helps off on D bc she can't stay in front of elite players. Neither can most of the rest of our players.

In case anyone forgot how wide the gulf is between good players and elite talent, go back and rewatch this game. True elite talent is at an unbelievable level among the best teams and the gap is widening btw them and the rest of us. Of course it's a vicious cycle, the rich get richer, from the portal, from HS recruiting, from NIL. We are clearly on the outside looking in, notwithstanding what a 14 yr old thinks she'll want to do in 4 years.

Outside the obvious talent of JH and RJ (and possibly Jill) we are stacked with good, not great players who have physical limitations which are unlikely to ever allow them to be elite. They're great kids who represent LV nation well, but I'm afraid most are bumping their heads on their ceilings. KJH is constantly robbing Peter to pay Paul, balancing what these players can contribute vs what they cost us.

IMO we're kind of locked as a good SEC team who beats most of the other second tier teams most of the time. We might sneak up and beat someone really good sometimes (maybe?), or even get on a tear and make a little tourney run. But until we get more top talent in here, we won't go beyond that. And obviously, getting that talent, or hell any talent, is not going well.

I think KJH has at least a couple of years, but the deck is really stacked against an emergence into the big time. I could be way wrong, but I can see Kellie walking away after a couple more years of being stuck in the middling mud. I don't think she'll hang on to the detriment of the program like Holly did.

I also think post Kellie it has to be a splashy, big hire if we can get it. Probably the only way to attract the talent we need.

Outside of JH and RJ our roster is more on par with a solid lower D1 team verses elite Power 5. Reasons you stated, we lack athleticism from #3 down the bench to run with those who have it. The game verses Belmont last year showed we are closer to them than we are UConn and USC. Again goes back to the game plan for anyone who has watched the team.... take RJ or JH out of the game and make a third player step up to be the difference.

 

[Volfan2012]

Nah, there are some coaching issues, but this is not one. I'm sure Tess, a high IQ player, knew her assignment and wanted to fulfill it. But this is a talent issue. Tess gambles and helps off on D bc she can't stay in front of elite players. Neither can most of the rest of our players.

In case anyone forgot how wide the gulf is between good players and elite talent, go back and rewatch this game. True elite talent is at an unbelievable level among the best teams and the gap is widening btw them and the rest of us. Of course it's a vicious cycle, the rich get richer, from the portal, from HS recruiting, from NIL. We are clearly on the outside looking in, notwithstanding what a 14 yr old thinks she'll want to do in 4 years.

Outside the obvious talent of JH and RJ (and possibly Jill) we are stacked with good, not great players who have physical limitations which are unlikely to ever allow them to be elite. They're great kids who represent LV nation well, but I'm afraid most are bumping their heads on their ceilings. KJH is constantly robbing Peter to pay Paul, balancing what these players can contribute vs what they cost us.

IMO we're kind of locked as a good SEC team who beats most of the other second tier teams most of the time. We might sneak up and beat someone really good sometimes (maybe?), or even get on a tear and make a little tourney run. But until we get more top talent in here, we won't go beyond that. And obviously, getting that talent, or hell any talent, is not going well.

I think KJH has at least a couple of years, but the deck is really stacked against an emergence into the big time. I could be way wrong, but I can see Kellie walking away after a couple more years of being stuck in the middling mud. I don't think she'll hang on to the detriment of the program like Holly did.

I also think post Kellie it has to be a splashy, big hire if we can get it. Probably the only way to attract the talent we need.

We have about three or four players that their body can do what their mind tells them to do. I think the rest have very high IQ's but the body can't achieve what the body is requesting. I think we could come with five players to give them or anyone a good game, but we don't have five that are in shape enough to play forty minutes or more likely we just choose to not do it. The group we had together most of the second quarter could play with them evidently they didn't have the stamina to play the entire game. Cause why change that group? At least Coach Harper saw quickly that Karoline was getting dominated in the post and Jill came in and done an effective job. Tess knows what to do body can't do it. I am still trying to understand why Walker was guarding Senechal Lopez.

 

[LadyVol1908]

We have about three or four players that their body can do what their mind tells them to do. I think the rest have very high IQ's but the body can't achieve what the body is requesting. I think we could come with five players to give them or anyone a good game, but we don't have five that are in shape enough to play forty minutes or more likely we just choose to not do it. The group we had together most of the second quarter could play with them evidently they didn't have the stamina to play the entire game. Cause why change that group? At least Coach Harper saw quickly that Karoline was getting dominated in the post and Jill came in and done an effective job. Tess knows what to do body can't do it. I am still trying to understand why Walker was guarding Senechal Lopez.

My thought on the Walker situation is that she is one of our better on ball defenders. Horston is the best, but I’m assuming Kellie wanted to somewhat let Jordan rest on the defensive end so she could score. Horston has the propensity to get fatigued and Senechal is an obsolete terror to guard for ANYONE.

We all know what happens with Horston when she’s tired…..turnovers, forced shots, and lackadaisical defense. I’m confident if she had the assignment of guarding Lou, she wouldn’t have scored half the points she did.

 

[LadyVol1908]

My quibble was with the coaching last night! Both quarters UCONN sucked the life out of us - 1st and 3rd, Kellie didn’t have our best unit on the floor. It scares me that Kellie and her staff didn’t recognize the need to start Horston and Jillian from the get go and starting the 3rd quarter. She quickly recognized Striplin was overmatched in the 3rd, but why even start her after halftime. Come out with your same lineup that got you back in the game in the 2nd quarter.

There’s so much I want to say but I’ll just wait until after the season, I just us to win, it’s so disheartening but it’s just our new reality I guess, my mind accepts it, but my heart won’t.

 

[Volfan2012]

My thought on the Walker situation is that she is one of our better on ball defenders. Horston is the best, but I’m assuming Kellie wanted to somewhat let Jordan rest on the defensive end so she could score. Horston has the propensity to get fatigued and Senechal is an obsolete terror to guard for ANYONE.

We all know what happens with Horston when she’s tired…..turnovers, forced shots, and lackadaisical defense. I’m confident if she had the assignment of guard Lou, she wouldn’t have scored half the points she did.

Her size really limited how she could guard Lopez she was just shooting over her with ease when she was up close. We haven't has what we need at point guard in years. Karoline and Jasmine are really four type players Jill is the only actual center type player. Well anyway we got outscored in that matchup 3 to 26 so that was the game right there.

 

[VolsAgainstTheWorld15]

Are you serious? That's nuts.

Isn’t really that crazy. This year has been a massive disappointment and next year’s roster isn’t shaping up too good. Is it really all that nuts to think it’s better to pull the plug now when all signs point towards next season being worse?

 

[LadyVol1908]

Her size really limited how she could guard Lopez she was just shooting over her with ease when she was up close. We haven't has what we need at point guard in years. Karoline and Jasmine are really four type players Jill is the only actual center type player. Well anyway we got outscored in that matchup 3 to 26 so that was the game right there.

And that’s been our problem all year, Walker and Powell provide too little against the elite teams. If a team has good guard play, we’re cooked, if a team has good post players, we’re cooked (Without TK) I don’t think we’ll have any signature wins this year honestly and that’s concerning.

 

[Volfan2012]

My quibble was with the coaching last night! Both quarters UCONN sucked the life out of us - 1st and 3rd, Kellie didn’t have our best unit on the floor. It scares me that Kellie and her staff didn’t recognize the need to start Horston and Jillian from the get go and starting the 3rd quarter. She quickly recognized Striplin was overmatched in the 3rd, but why even start her after halftime. Come out with your same lineup that got you back in the game in the 2nd quarter.

There’s so much I want to say but I’ll just wait until after the season, I just us to win, it’s so disheartening but it’s just our new reality I guess, my mind accepts it, but my heart won’t.

I could see five that could've gave them a game, but they only played a few minutes together. The job Kellie has to do between April and next season is probably going to be to much. The roster she has coming back is at least middle of the SEC. She may be able to figure out a way to get to the sweet sixteen with the right bracket, but this is season four and we shouldn't be where we are.

 

[glv98]

Horston has the propensity to get fatigued

To be fair, she played her ass off and has been sick.

We haven't has what we need at point guard in years..

Don't worry, got one coming (maybe) in 4 years!

 

[Volfan2012]

And that’s been our problem all year, Walker and Powell provide too little against the elite teams. If a team has good guard play, we’re cooked, if a team has good post players, we’re cooked (Without TK) I don’t think we’ll have any signature wins this year honestly and that’s concerning.

Against the top ten teams we've played we get dominated at the guard positions in scoring and has been to much to make up. Especially when they have elite post players as well.

 

[Volfan2012]

To be fair, she played her ass off and has been sick.

Don't worry, got one coming (maybe) in 4 years!

Even Kellie can't survive four years at the way things are going. I think we needed to step up big this season still can but unlikely. Next season year five is all her team who are they going to be? The ones she is bringing back will kill her coaching career no way there is enough talent there to compete nationally or even at the top of the SEC.

 

[LadyVol1908]

Any thoughts on this? I thought this was an interesting take as I do see Kellie turn to him a lot. I was at the Arkansas game a couple of years ago and noticed this but didn’t really think anything of it. This group is pretty no holds barred so I blurred out the names!

 

[Amb3096]

And that’s been our problem all year, Walker and Powell provide too little against the elite teams. If a team has good guard play, we’re cooked, if a team has good post players, we’re cooked (Without TK) I don’t think we’ll have any signature wins this year honestly and that’s concerning.

The loss of TK doesn't just tilt the balance at the frontcourt; the lack of a rim protector gives the green light to the guards to drive at will without as much risk that their shot will be blocked. Combined with teams with a strong frontcourt, that's a tough hurdle to overcome.

I hope Kellie realizes that Striplin shouldn't be starting off games and Hollingshead needs to get the nod. She got abused in the first few minutes of the game, and that set the tone. She unfortunately brought nothing last night, and for the life of me I can't understand why she was brought in to start the 3rd. She was out of her depth last night.

 

[Prophet1]

We have about three or four players that their body can do what their mind tells them to do. I think the rest have very high IQ's but the body can't achieve what the body is requesting. I think we could come with five players to give them or anyone a good game, but we don't have five that are in shape enough to play forty minutes or more likely we just choose to not do it. The group we had together most of the second quarter could play with them evidently they didn't have the stamina to play the entire game. Cause why change that group? At least Coach Harper saw quickly that Karoline was getting dominated in the post and Jill came in and done an effective job. Tess knows what to do body can't do it. I am still trying to understand why Walker was guarding Senechal Lopez.

I'm trying to understanding why Wynn who's quick and plays defense didn't see the court ?

 

[Cb153181]

And that’s been our problem all year, Walker and Powell provide too little against the elite teams. If a team has good guard play, we’re cooked, if a team has good post players, we’re cooked (Without TK) I don’t think we’ll have any signature wins this year honestly and that’s concerning.

I am testing Kellie womanhood against LSU on Monday. If she refuses to start her best 5 against LSU we will never beat the great teams this season.

Why does she refuse to start Walker, Horston, Hollingshed, Jackson and Darby together. Those are our best 5 right now tess is a liability on defense but we can’t have her not starting. Walker has to start bc her defense is better than Powell.

Kellie gave the game away last night when she started that 3rd quarter with Karo, and Puckett. She went away from what was working she does this in a lot of games. We can’t have those two on the floor together against athletic teams. Kellie has to be the only person who can’t see this. It’s very sad that her own head is in the way right now.

 

[LadyVol1908]

The loss of TK doesn't just tilt the balance at the frontcourt; the lack of a rim protector gives the green light to the guards to drive at will without as much risk that their shot will be blocked. Combined with teams with a strong frontcourt, that's a tough hurdle to overcome.

I hope Kellie realizes that Striplin shouldn't be starting off games and Hollingshead needs to get the nod. She got abused in the first few minutes of the game, and that set the tone. She unfortunately brought nothing last night, and for the life of me I can't understand why she was brought in to start the 3rd. She was out of her depth last night.

If she hasn’t figured out Jackson needs to start games, I’m not confident she’ll figure out Jillian needs to start games! I don’t know what they’re thinking at this point!

 

[Volfan2012]

I'm trying to understanding why Wynn who quick and plays defense well didn't see the court ?

Probably should've at least tried to use her on Senechal. I know she is another no offense player, but she does have some defensive skills.

 

[Amb3096]

I'm trying to understanding why Wynn who quick and plays defense well didn't see the court ?

Because she's a complete liability on offense and doesn't make the best decisions on the court. And I imagine that Lou would have no problems cracking the defense of a player that is faster/more athletic than her, but with much lower bball IQ.

 

[Amb3096]

If she hasn’t figured out Jackson needs to start games, I’m not confident she’ll figure out Jillian needs to start games! I don’t know what they’re thinking at this point!

The other thing was not starting Horston from tip off. That first 10 minutes was brutal, and having Puckett, Striplin and Darby on the court together just assured that UConn was going to get whatever shot they wanted.

 

[LadyVol1908]

Because she's a complete liability on offense and doesn't make the best decisions on the court. And I imagine that Lou would have no problems cracking the defense of a player that is faster/more athletic than her, but with much lower bball IQ.

Bingo, overall low IQ defensively. And honestly, she’s a good on ball defender but I’ve seen her still get lost a lot on defense. Wynn knows how to keep a man in front of her but if she has to navigate cuts, know when to go up/over screens, that’s when she’s in trouble.

 

[LadyVol1908]

The other thing was not starting Horston from tip off. That first 10 minutes was brutal, and having Puckett, Striplin and Darby on the court together just assured that UConn was going to get whatever shot they wanted.

It was so embarrassing! I really hope Kellie learned her lesson from that and we’ll get to see Monday night!

 

[Prophet1]

View attachment 533169Seriously look at this 2023-24 roster. Somebody needs their ass fired!

The not so funny thing about this is there are three starters in this photo.

 

[Amb3096]

The not so funny thing about this is there are three starters in this photo.

The other not so funny thing is that there are no new HS recruits either. Kellie will basically be having an arranged marriage with whichever portaller she can get over the summer.