Gun control debate (merged)

#23,302
#23,302
Volatility said:
I never said guns make people want to commit mass murder. Guns are the vessel. That being said, do you think the Uvalde shooting would’ve happened if access to semi-automatics were restricted to 21+ and/or required a background check, waiting period, training courses etc.?



So what do you think needs to be changed? As far as the “gun control” angle goes, I wouldn’t be upset if semi-automatics were restricted to 21+ unless they’re active duty and/or have extended background checks.
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The only way I support raising the semiauto ownership age to 21 is if the same change is simultaneously tied to voting age. The two should be constitutionally linked. If you aren’t mature enough to own a common everyday firearm, you aren’t mature enough to pick someone to hold political office. I would argue that in 2020, 81 Million people did. more harm to this country with their votes than 81 million gun owners could even contemplate
 
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#23,303
#23,303
OrangeTsar said:
Now discuss the White Swiss with their crazy high gun ownership rates. I never felt safer than when I was in Zurich. And no one, even Hitler, had the ball to even seriously think about invading them in Centuries
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Switzerland has rigid rules regarding ownership of guns and purchasing of ammo iirc. The Swiss also use their tax dollars on themselves, which gives them a higher standard of living. Whereas democrats and republicans just sent $80,000,000,000 to Ukraine.
 
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#23,304
#23,304
Volatility said:
I never said guns make people want to commit mass murder. Guns are the vessel. That being said, do you think the Uvalde shooting would’ve happened if access to semi-automatics were restricted to 21+ and/or required a background check, waiting period, training courses etc.?
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Background checks are required and the shooter passed a background check. You realize the majority of all gun are semi-automatic weapons right?

But yes. It obviously would have still occurred with a revolver, shotgun, or whatever he could have gotten ahold of.
 
#23,305
#23,305
Volatility said:
Switzerland has rigid rules regarding ownership of guns and purchasing of ammo iirc. The Swiss also use their tax dollars on themselves, which gives them a higher standard of living. Whereas democrats and republicans just sent $80,000,000,000 to Ukraine.
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The swiss standard of living is not due to their tax policies (which are far less progressive than ours, given their middle class pays the highest rate), but rather to their free market. Why do you think the phrase "Swiss bank account exists"?

Also worth noting they have more mass shootings than we do.
 
#23,306
#23,306
Hoosier_Vol said:
294503367_1765290243807519_9116655990676236029_n.jpg
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I just want to tip my hat to a guy that under stress scored 8 of 10 hits at 40 yards with a handgun. Well done.

Not only does this whole thing kick the hoplophobe's narrative in the plums outright but really twists the knife on this shrill "but...but...an AR is a weapon of WAR! It's practically a weapon of mass destruction!" A civilian with no LEO or military training took out an active shooter with such a weapon in 15 seconds armed only with courage and a Glock.
 
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#23,307
#23,307
Vol8188 said:
Background checks are required and the shooter passed a background check. You realize the majority of all gun are semi-automatic weapons right?

But yes. It obviously would have still occurred with a revolver, shotgun, or whatever he could have gotten ahold of.
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Right, but what if it required a waiting period, training courses etc.? Can you kill more people quickly with a semi-automatic, pistol or shotgun?

Vol8188 said:
The swiss standard of living is not due to their tax policies (which are far less progressive than ours, given their middle class pays the highest rate), but rather to their free market. Why do you think the phrase "Swiss bank account exists"?

Also worth noting they have more mass shootings than we do.
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They don’t have more mass shootings. Also another factor of their higher standard of living is due to the fact that they don’t spend their tax dollars on foreign nations/wars like we do.

They’re a conservative country, whereas we are ultra liberal when it comes to international intervention. Even when Trump was in office and a conservative majority, we were still using our tax dollars on attacking Syria and giving Israel billions instead of being conservative with our money.
 
#23,308
#23,308
hndog609 said:
I just want to tip my hat to a guy that under stress scored 8 of 10 hits at 40 yards with a handgun. Well done.

Not only does this whole thing kick the hoplophobe's narrative in the plums outright but really twists the knife on this shrill "but...but...an AR is a weapon of WAR! It's practically a weapon of mass destruction!" A civilian with no LEO or military training took out an active shooter with such a weapon in 15 seconds armed only with courage and a Glock.
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He had more guts than the entire Uvalde PD.
 
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#23,309
#23,309
Volatility said:
Right, but what if it required a waiting period, training courses etc.? Can you kill more people quickly with a semi-automatic, pistol or shotgun?



They don’t have more mass shootings. Also another factor of their higher standard of living is due to the fact that they don’t spend their tax dollars on foreign nations/wars like we do.

They’re a conservative country, whereas we are ultra liberal when it comes to international intervention. Even when Trump was in office and a conservative majority, we were still using our tax dollars on attacking Syria and giving Israel billions instead of being conservative with our money.
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A waiting period? He didn't buy the guns and then kill people the next day. And training? Why would we want him to be more proficient?

Yeah they do. They're wealthy because they have an extremely free market. Ranked as the 2nd freest in the world. That's why the phrase "Swiss bank account" exists. You won't find a correlation between foreign wars and wealth, but you will between open markets and wealth. The wealthiest countries are the ones with the most open markets. That's why the Swiss are wealthy and why so many other European countries are poor.

1658333303552.png
 
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#23,310
#23,310
hndog609 said:
I just want to tip my hat to a guy that under stress scored 8 of 10 hits at 40 yards with a handgun. Well done.

Not only does this whole thing kick the hoplophobe's narrative in the plums outright but really twists the knife on this shrill "but...but...an AR is a weapon of WAR! It's practically a weapon of mass destruction!" A civilian with no LEO or military training took out an active shooter with such a weapon in 15 seconds armed only with courage and a Glock.
Click to expand...

When CNN tried to proclaim you couldn't stop a mass shooter with a pistol because the bullets travel too fast I almost died.
 
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#23,311
#23,311
Volatility said:
Insurance companies account for younger drivers when it comes to calculating their insurance premiums though.
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Well thank God you will be compensated for the loss of your loved one killed by that teen driver.

I guess as long as the Uvalde parents had insurance on their kids - they should be good as well.
 
#23,312
#23,312
Volatility said:
Right, but what if it required a waiting period, training courses etc.? Can you kill more people quickly with a semi-automatic, pistol or shotgun?



They don’t have more mass shootings. Also another factor of their higher standard of living is due to the fact that they don’t spend their tax dollars on foreign nations/wars like we do.

They’re a conservative country, whereas we are ultra liberal when it comes to international intervention. Even when Trump was in office and a conservative majority, we were still using our tax dollars on attacking Syria and giving Israel billions instead of being conservative with our money.
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Pretty much every pistol is a semiautomatic. There is a waiting period already from the time you submit the background check form until the agency reviewing it comes back with proceed, delayed, or denied. If you get delayed the agency reviewing the background check legally has 3 business days to either confirm or deny the transaction. After 3 days the firearm can be transferred to the buyer but most dealers still won’t do it.
 
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#23,316
#23,316
Vol8188 said:
Background checks are required and the shooter passed a background check. You realize the majority of all gun are semi-automatic weapons right?

But yes. It obviously would have still occurred with a revolver, shotgun, or whatever he could have gotten ahold of.
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And as the Japanese found out, if someone is really determined enough, they can build one for a single use themselves
 
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#23,318
#23,318
Rickyvol77 said:
The best part was that he chased down the shooter who was hurt and trying to hide in a bathroom and ended him on the floor
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The perp‘s last thoughts were probably along the lines of „this is NOT how I thought this would turn out“. A few more like this and the motivation of copy cats will begin to drop.
 
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#23,320
#23,320
Vol8188 said:
A waiting period? He didn't buy the guns and then kill people the next day. And training? Why would we want him to be more proficient?

Yeah they do. They're wealthy because they have an extremely free market. Ranked as the 2nd freest in the world. That's why the phrase "Swiss bank account" exists. You won't find a correlation between foreign wars and wealth, but you will between open markets and wealth. The wealthiest countries are the ones with the most open markets. That's why the Swiss are wealthy and why so many other European countries are poor.

View attachment 473941
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I’m not sure a psycho would be willing to go through training/certification, whereas now we have a (flawed) background check. I’m not arguing the free market angle either. Switzerland values the free market like we value sending our tax dollars overseas.

Also figure 1 shows America has way more mass shootings compared to other first world countries.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/figure/10.1080/01924036.2022.2052126?scroll=top&needAccess=true
 
#23,322
#23,322
Volatility said:
I’m not sure a psycho would be willing to go through training/certification, whereas now we have a (flawed) background check. I’m not arguing the free market angle either. Switzerland values the free market like we value sending our tax dollars overseas.

Also figure 1 shows America has way more mass shootings compared to other first world countries.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/figure/10.1080/01924036.2022.2052126?scroll=top&needAccess=true
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You are arguing against the free market though because you attempted to proclaim they had somehow taxed themselves into wealth.

Did you even look at this link before you posted it? It doesn't compare America to any 1 country like the info I provided you. Rather it takes an average of a bunch of other countries and compares us to that average. So no, that does not show that we are have more. Just more than the average of countries they picked.
 
#23,323
#23,323
Volatility said:
I’m not sure a psycho would be willing to go through training/certification, whereas now we have a (flawed) background check. I’m not arguing the free market angle either. Switzerland values the free market like we value sending our tax dollars overseas.

Also figure 1 shows America has way more mass shootings compared to other first world countries.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/figure/10.1080/01924036.2022.2052126?scroll=top&needAccess=true
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But the number of historical mass shooting of citizens by the government is quite low here compared to some other „First World“ counties FWIW
 
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#23,325
#23,325
Volatility said:
So would you tell the parents of the murdered children in Uvalde that our system is working perfectly and nothing needs to be changed?


So why does America have more mass shooters than any other developed country? I’m not saying it’s the guns, but there’s clearly something or multiple things in the American fabric that are causing psychos to grab powerful weapons and murder innocent people.
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We also have the most people on ADD and antidepressant drugs, I’m not saying it’s the drugs but there’s clearly something or multiple things in the American fabric that are causing people to turn to psychotic drugs.
 
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