Gun control debate (merged)

#23,203
#23,203
Volatility said:
I don’t think it can be prevented entirely, but that’s not the goal anyway. I do think better laws and controls can reduce the risk of psychos getting their hands on powerful weapons.
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Having armed citizens that can fight back would seem like an effective way to reduce that risk.

Teaching people to respect a tool, and how to handle them properly ensures they arent seen as toys from video games only used for killing.
 
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#23,205
#23,205
LouderVol said:
Having armed citizens that can fight back would seem like an effective way to reduce that risk.

Teaching people to respect a tool, and how to handle them properly ensures they arent seen as toys from video games only used for killing.
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Guns aren't tools, they're weapons.
 
#23,206
#23,206
Volatility said:
I don’t think it can be prevented entirely, but that’s not the goal anyway. I do think better laws and controls can reduce the risk of psychos getting their hands on powerful weapons.
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Given the “easy access” you believe psychos have to weapons, why is that not represented in homicide rates? Shouldn’t our homicide rate be through the roof?
 
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#23,207
#23,207
K-town Vol Fan said:
Guns aren't tools, they're weapons.
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Only if you are ignorant about guns. What you do with something determines if it's a tool or a weapon.

A hammer is a tool. I use it to bash someone's head, it's a weapon. I use my .22 to drive nails, it's a tool. I use it to shoot someone, it's a weapon. I use it to shoot targets, it's a tool. I hang that .22 in a locked glass display case and its art.

The ability to be a weapon isnt a limitation, or the defining characteristic, on anything else. You have to apply inconsistent standards built on acknowledged ignorance to have an argument.
 
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#23,215
#23,215
85SugarVol said:
And what will you have to say when psychos starting wreaking havoc with “less powerful” weapons?
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Let’s cross that bridge if that ever happens.

Vol8188 said:
Given the “easy access” you believe psychos have to weapons, why is that not represented in homicide rates? Shouldn’t our homicide rate be through the roof?
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It is rather high compared to other first world countries: Homicide rate by country, around the world | TheGlobalEconomy.com

We’re also doing abysmal when it comes to gun related deaths in first world countries: Gun Violence in the US Far Exceeds Levels in Other Rich Nations
 
#23,216
#23,216
K-town Vol Fan said:
Why though? Its not impossible for an 18 year old to acquire 6k. Hell maybe he put it on a credit card. Who cares. It doesn't matter.
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I thought how people acquired weapons mattered deeply and we had to work to limit their ability to acquire them?

It matters because he was an 18 year old whose mom was being evicted and who had serious mental health issues. Not exactly a demographic known for their vast wealth
 
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#23,217
#23,217
Volatility said:
Let’s cross that bridge if that ever happens.



It is rather high compared to other first world countries: Homicide rate by country, around the world | TheGlobalEconomy.com

We’re also doing abysmal when it comes to gun related deaths in first world countries: Gun Violence in the US Far Exceeds Levels in Other Rich Nations
Click to expand...

The white homicide rate is between 1-2 per 100k which is on par with Canada and the EU despite having far more guns and far easier access.

So why is the population with the most guns equal to those areas in terms of homicides? Unless there’s no relationship between access and homicide
 
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#23,218
#23,218
Vol8188 said:
I thought how people acquired weapons mattered deeply and we had to work to limit their ability to acquire them?

It matters because he was an 18 year old whose mom was being evicted and who had serious mental health issues. Not exactly a demographic known for their vast wealth
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6k is vast wealth? Damn I'm rich and didn't even know it.


Like I said, credit card, maybe stole a parents credit card. Seems most likely and easiest.
 
#23,219
#23,219
K-town Vol Fan said:
6k is vast wealth? Damn I'm rich and didn't even know it.


Like I said, credit card, maybe stole a parents credit card. Seems most likely and easiest.
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For an 18 year old? Yes. 6k is a lot.

So his mom is being evicted but had a credit card with a 6k limit on it? That seems likely. I’m sure she had great credit
 
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#23,222
#23,222
Vol8188 said:
The white homicide rate is between 1-2 per 100k which is on par with Canada and the EU despite having far more guns and far easier access.

So why is the population with the most guns equal to those areas in terms of homicides? Unless there’s no relationship between access and homicide
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Unless there’s a plan to remove non-whites from America, homicides from all races are going to be included in these statistics, which show that we are way more violent compared to other first world countries.
 
#23,223
#23,223
Volatility said:
Unless there’s a plan to remove non-whites from America, homicides from all races are going to be included in these statistics, which show that we are way more violent compared to other first world countries.
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Doesn't that inherently mean the problem is not with the guns? White Americans have the most guns in the world and yet a lower homicide rate than the EU. Why?

Unless the problem isn't guns
 
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#23,224
#23,224
Vol8188 said:
Doesn't that inherently mean the problem is not with the guns? White Americans have the most guns in the world and yet a lower homicide rate than the EU. Why?

Unless the problem isn't guns
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It would be even lower if we included only Asians or Jewish people, but America is diverse and these studies include all races in America.

Guns are indeed a factor, but not the only factor. Most people don’t wake up and decide to start shootings at a mall/school/grocery store. Why does America have so many people who want to do this?
 
#23,225
#23,225
Volatility said:
Unless there’s a plan to remove non-whites from America, homicides from all races are going to be included in these statistics, which show that we are way more violent compared to other first world countries.
Click to expand...

As a macro I understand your point. I think the argument he's presenting is that when you have the better part of 200 million people with the kind of firearm access being discussed and having the homicide rate cited it questions the "guns are the problem" stance. If it really was firearm access in and of itself wouldn't any demographic be representative in homicide rate?

Anyway, that's what I've taken his argument to mean.
 
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