Gun control debate (merged)

[CagleMtnVol]

You seem to have missed my point.

No one ever understands your point!

 

[luthervol]

Why don’t you give us your definition of what a fully automatic weapon is then .

Because I do not have a defintion.
I would define it (at least partially) as a gun which had a rating of firing more than x rounds per y seconds.

 

[0nelilreb]

If he shot 10 different types of guns, would he get off a different number of rounds per second?
How about you? Have you been able to get off the same number of shots per second on every gun you've fired?

Him not with a revolver that’s a world record . Him with a semi automatic yes even faster because of his abilities and cat like reflexes. Me using the same exact same set up as him , even if he allowed me to use his own set up .. not in this life time . The maximum rate of fire might as well be the speed of light if you can’t reach it , that number is worthless on a non fully automatic weapon . A single shot or semi automatic weapons rate of fire means nothing , the operators rate of fire is everything .

 

[C-south]

Because I do not have a defintion.
I would define it (at least partially) as a gun which had a rating of firing more than x rounds per y seconds.

You would be wrong. As usual.

 

[0nelilreb]

Because I do not have a defintion.
I would define it (at least partially) as a gun which had a rating of firing more than x rounds per y seconds.

This is why you can’t get anyone to believe your reasonable and rational restrictions BS. Gun grabbers are always talking in non specific, general terms , because you goals are to chip away at the 2a . The problem you encounter is that pro 2a people always talk in very specific terms . We understand what your goal is and that words matter when it comes to keeping our rights .

 

[Vol Main]

You are wrong . Your personal, subjective opinion of what something is doesn’t matter .



This is 8 sots in 1 second with a revolver . Let me say that again .. 8 shots off in one second using a wheel load revolver.

Reb, there are people with exraordinarily advanced gun skills. Most mass murder shooters are nowhere near that level. Those are the people we're talking about.

 

[luthervol]

Him not with a revolver that’s a world record . Him with a semi automatic yes even faster because of his abilities and cat like reflexes. Me using the same exact same set up as him , even if he allowed me to use his own set up .. not in this life time . The maximum rate of fire might as well be the speed of light if you can’t reach it , that number is worthless on a non fully automatic weapon . A single shot or semi automatic weapons rate of fire means nothing , the operators rate of fire is everything .

I'll say this one more time.
Gun A - whatever the hell you want to make it
The guy in the video, you, me, and 3 other people selected of differing abilities all fire it as quickly as we can.
Take the average - that's the rating.

Gun B -
Same 6 people - take the average - that's the rating.

That's a simplified version of the concept.

 

[luthervol]

You would be wrong. As usual.

Not if that became the accepted definition.

 

[1vol8]

Banning Assault Rifles


Herschel Walker just gave a rambling speech, with a line about "taking your rights away." I always supported Second Amendment, and I still do. I know all of the arguments for it, and I've made them in the past. I still think everything I said was reasonable and right, except for one thing. When it got a lot of children killed, it stopped being right.


So don't talk to me about taking away your rights or "the security of a free state." High capacity, semi-automatic, high powered rifles on the market do not make us more secure. Obviously, they make us less secure. If you do not believe me, ask parents of those dead children. Ask the children who survived. Ask any sensible person. Do I think police should knock on your door and take away your rifle? No, and I want to quash talk of any proposed legislation to that effect, as quickly as possible. I believe that owning high capacity magazines, i.e. over seventeen, should be illegal. But I do not think that possession of the rifles themselves should become a crime. We need to stop people who want to commit mass murder from walking out of a gun store with one of those guns, and the only way to do that is to ban their manufacture and sale. That is what I support doing.


Look-it, I've owned a few semi-automatic long guns. I enjoyed shooting them and learning about them. I used to carry an M-16 rifle as a soldier and thought I had the right to own a high powered, semi-auto rifle if I wanted as a civilian. No, I don't. I have no right to weapons of war when they are the guns of choice to commit mass murders one after the other. Will the murders continue after people are no longer able to walk out of guns stores with assault rifles? Yes, but the murders will not be nearly as bad, and police will be able to respond more quickly and effectively.


I want gun owners to understand that banning the sale of assault rifles is not the end of their gun rights, not the end of our country, and not the end of the world. I imposed a self-ban, and I'm doing just fine. I do not need one, and neither do you. I do not want one, and I don't think you should.

Let me start by saying thank you for your service. You carried an M16 which is a weapon of war but an AR15 (although the same platform) is not the same gun. It’s the domesticated version of the M16 as I’m sure you already know. Which means it’s NOT a weapon of war when it’s capabilities are not the same. If these mass shootings were happening with fully automatic rifles, I get it. But they’re not. They’re happening with semi automatic rifles that are no more capable than handguns. So you can’t compare. The appearance of a rifle should not be a determining factor on wether or not a civilian can own one when it functions no different than any other semi auto weapon. Doesn’t matter the caliber nor the platform, handgun nor rifle. One squeeze is one round and it’ll shoot as fast as your finger will move. The problem isn’t the gun. It’s the head of the person behind the trigger. You can ban all guns and nothing will change because that crazy in some peoples head will still exist. Someone that wants to kill will find a way to do it. The tool used makes no difference when a butter knife will do the job

 

[0nelilreb]

Reb, there are people with exraordinarily advanced gun skills. Most mass murder shooters are nowhere near that level. Those are the people we're talking about.

Luther is trying to redefine what a fully autimatic weapon is according to his opinion , in order to make a point about how it’s the weapon and not the operator. I posted that about Jerry for a very specific reason .

 

[Orangeburst]

Had a friend in HS in 83 who had the full auto parts for his AR-15, hid the parts in a cutout in a big thick dictionary. We would hop on 4-wheelers deep in the woods and fire that thing

 

[0nelilreb]

Not if that became the accepted definition.

And there it is

 

[Orangeburst]

Luther is trying to redefine what a fully autimatic weapon is according to his opinion , in order to make a point about how it’s the weapon and not the operator. I posted that about Jerry for a very specific reason .

They cannot discriminate X and Y chromosomes..much less any variables

 

[0nelilreb]

I'll say this one more time.
Gun A - whatever the hell you want to make it
The guy in the video, you, me, and 3 other people selected of differing abilities all fire it as quickly as we can.
Take the average - that's the rating.

Gun B -
Same 6 people - take the average - that's the rating.

That's a simplified version of the concept.

I’ll say it one more time .. nobody believe your reasonable and rational Bs . We all know the game , change the meaning of words until they fit your agenda . This is why I can’t stand progressives . You break down cultures with your garbage agendas and then cry that it’s somebody else’s fault .

 

[Mr_Henley]

No thanks. The second amendment isn’t for hunting, it’s for protection from failed and tyrannical government.

The mentally ill 18 year old massacred kids. Not the gun.

The drunk drivers kills the family on the interstate, not the car, alcohol manufacturer, or the store that sold it.

 

[luthervol]

This is why you can’t get anyone to believe your reasonable and rational restrictions BS. Gun grabbers are always talking in non specific, general terms , because you goals are to chip away at the 2a . The problem you encounter is that pro 2a people always talk in very specific terms . We understand what your goal is and that words matter when it comes to keeping our rights .

As I said yesterday, this debate does nothing but lead both side to hold the other in even less regard.
Currently, I can't really seem to lower that regard any further, which is a position I would honestly prefer avoiding.

 

[1vol8]

The United States has the 59th highest homicide rate in the world. A lot of the countries above us do not allow civilians to own firearms. So.............

Facts are not allowed here

 

[0nelilreb]

As I said yesterday, this debate does nothing but lead both side to hold the other in even less regard.
Currently, I can't really seem to lower that regard any further, which is a position I would honestly prefer avoiding.

Too late I’m already there . Progressive which you are firmly in that camp are the absolute worse thing for this country , it’s fundamental values , it’s heart and core that made this place the greatest economic and social experiment since the Roman Empire . You have a blueprint for success in our constitution and there isn’t a day that goes by that your ilk doesn’t try to back door your way into reducing it to just a cheap rambling of slave owners , instead of using the levers that they gave us to change it . You not being able define anything but trying to refine everything so you can attack it from a different direction , isn’t clever , it’s slimy , and the very reason nobody will listen to anything you consider reasonable . “ SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED “ no grey area .

 

[Orangeburst]

Too late I’m already there . Progressive which you are firmly in that camp are the absolute worse thing for this country , it’s fundamental values , it’s heart and core that made this place the greatest economic and social experiment since the Roman Empire . You have a blueprint for success in our constitution and there isn’t a day that goes by that your ilk doesn’t try to back door your way into reducing it to just a cheap rambling of slave owners , instead of using the levers that they gave us to change it . You not being able define anything but trying to refine everything so you can attack it from a different direction , isn’t clever , it’s slimy , and the very reason nobody will listen to anything you consider reasonable . “ SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED “ no grey area .

They hate the USC..period. A living document to manipulate, and at the heart of probably every problem we face today.

 

[85SugarVol]

I agree with OP. Hand guns and long rifles, thats it. Ban high capacity mags. No one on this board can come up with a valid reason they need an AR except for "muh rites'

There’s the first “muh, rights” I’ve seen since the lockdowns.

Remember that time (a few weeks ago) when the Democrats were all fired up and gung-ho about personal freedom and individual rights?

That was nice.

 

[ButchPlz]

There’s the first “muh, rights” I’ve seen since the lockdowns.

Remember that time (a few weeks ago) when the Democrats were all fired up and gung-ho about personal freedom and individual rights?

That was nice.

Without double standards the leftoids wouldn't have standards at all. Here's one just for you:

 

[C-south]

Not if that became the accepted definition.

Well it’s not and won’t. There’s already a definition for “automatic” and “semiautomatic”.

 

[ButchPlz]

Well it’s not and won’t. There’s already a definition for “automatic” and “semiautomatic”.

You aren't scared of fully semi-automatic assault rifles with high capacity clips?

Does anybody remember that USA Today graphic that made it seem like the average AR-15 owner has a grenade launcher attachment? Only in a utopia...

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

You will always find the highest rates where you find the highest concentration of economically and socially disadvantaged.
There is no other variable that even comes close. I've said that all along.

So free college and guaranteed income/minimum wages that they really don't have to work for will improve all that, right?

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

Which denomination or sect of Christianity will provide the lens of clarity for said Biblical morality?

.

At this point, it doesn't matter. Our country's moral compass is completely caged and any path that leads to God is fine. As a supposed Christian, I am surprised you even posed this question.