War in Ukraine

#31,401
#31,401
OrangeTsar said:
Normally as regards Ukraine, I disagree with Ras 98% of the time. But on this one topic, he is right on the money. We need to be helping de escalate this thing for everyone‘s benefit. It is almost like the Biden administration WANTS this war to escalate
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De-escalation isn’t really an option when one sides goal is destruction and annexation.
 
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#31,407
#31,407
Hunerwadel said:
Russia went into expecting to end in days or weeks at the most. You deny it but their intention was to smash Kyiv, overturn the government and occupy the country.
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If everything went according to plan in Phase I, then yes, it would have been over almost immediately. Phase I, however, didn't go as planned as their pre-war assumptions were wrong and thus they went on to Phase 2. Like I have said before, I don't think Russia ever had any intention of occupying the whole of Ukraine, or even most of it. Putin said as much from the start and early ceasefire conditions point to that as well.

They have united and likely expanded NATO which was never a threat to them in the first place.
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That is laughable false.

You scoff at the sanctions as if they are nothing. But they are not nothing. They will inflict damage and it will get worse the longer they stay in place. Outside of their few allies they have become a world pariah. Putin has embarrassed his nation, himself and put his presidency and his life in danger.
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I agree, they aren't nothing. Russia will have to weather them over the next 6-18 months but it is highly likely that they will weather them and it is possible that come out of this with a stronger economy. Much like Russia made some bad assumptions in Phase I of their war, the US/Europe has also made some bad assumptions in their economic war. Putin isn't embarrassing himself, it is the Europeans and Americans who continue to beclown themselves on a daily basis. Russians strongly stand behind Putin. Now let's see the support for our leaders. It is very low.

How can you say Russia is winning and keep a straight face? I don't know if you are stubborn or just plain dumb.
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I say it because it is true. They are achieving their objectives. Maybe not as fast as you expect them or how you expect them, but I don't think they care what you think. Ukraine has had years to fortify the Donbas. This isn't land that is easily taken but Russia's plan to slowly grind forward takes care of all 3 objectives (de-militarization, de-nazification and liberation of Donbas).
 
#31,408
#31,408
OrangeTsar said:
Normally as regards Ukraine, I disagree with Ras 98% of the time. But on this one topic, he is right on the money. We need to be helping de escalate this thing for everyone‘s benefit. It is almost like the Biden administration WANTS this war to escalate
Click to expand...
How would you "help" deescalate if it were up to you? IMO we can't tell Ukraine to negotiate away their country or even part of it. The West tried to tell Putin to knock it off. He obviously didn't listen. Biden has nothing to gain by keeping this going. All wars start to stink the longer they go on.
 
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#31,411
#31,411
Hunerwadel said:
How would you "help" deescalate if it were up to you? IMO we can't tell Ukraine to negotiate away their country or even part of it. The West tried to tell Putin to knock it off. He obviously didn't listen. Biden has nothing to gain by keeping this going. All wars start to stink the longer they go on.
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Help Ukraine but good golly don’t BRAG about tactical targeting assistance for crying out loud. That IS poking the bear (pun intended)
 
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#31,413
#31,413
Hunerwadel said:
How would you "help" deescalate if it were up to you? IMO we can't tell Ukraine to negotiate away their country or even part of it.
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Instead we tell them to keep fighting, don't sign any peace measures and urged them to go back on Istanbul agreements. We've done the exact opposite of de-escalation at every turn.

The West tried to tell Putin to knock it off. He obviously didn't listen.
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I think Putin told the West to knock it off and they didn't listen.

Biden has nothing to gain by keeping this going.
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Biden ain't calling the shots.
 
#31,415
#31,415
tvolsfan said:
Not sure where this myth is coming from that we are forcing Ukraine to fight.

Clearly that plan didn’t work for **** in Vietnam, Iraq, or Afghanistan, but apparently we are just effortlessly manipulating Ukraine into doing our bidding.
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If we are we’ve gotten a helluva lot better at it since last August even.
 
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#31,416
#31,416
Hunerwadel said:
How would you "help" deescalate if it were up to you? IMO we can't tell Ukraine to negotiate away their country or even part of it. The West tried to tell Putin to knock it off. He obviously didn't listen. Biden has nothing to gain by keeping this going. All wars start to stink the longer they go on.
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I would agree with everything except Biden having nothing to gain. First, ANY distraction from the economy is a plus for Joe. Second, his well connected friends in the defense industry (well befriended by Republicans as well) are raking in. TON of taxpayer money. Most of that $40 billion will go straight into contractor‘s pockets. And some of it will trickle straight back to Joe and the others in truly „bipartisan“ accomplishment
 
#31,419
#31,419
VOLSONLY said:
Just me or are the stooges multiplying like rabbits in this thread? You know who you are
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Define stooge. Is it people who are concerned about the amount of money we are pumping in this effort while domestically we are struggling in many areas? Is it the ones wondering why Ukrainian sovereignty seems more important the American sovereignty? Is it people accused of defending Putin? Is it people posting tweets?
 
#31,421
#31,421
OrangeTsar said:
I would agree with everything except Biden having nothing to gain. First, ANY distraction from the economy is a plus for Joe. Second, his well connected friends in the defense industry (well befriended by Republicans as well) are raking in. TON of taxpayer money. Most of that $40 billion will go straight into contractor‘s pockets. And some of it will trickle straight back to Joe and the others in truly „bipartisan“ accomplishment
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Do you really think someone is skimming defense appropriations and funneling cash to Biden? I mean really? That is the kind of thing that is told to these low intellect Alabama rednecks around here so they will go out and repeat it to their buddies.

I'll listen to your answer but that's the last I'm going to say about partisan politics in this thread. The aspects of the war in Ukraine is the first thing the right and left has come close to agreeing on outside of 9/11 in decades.
 
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