War in Ukraine

[KB5252]

The political class in the West wants war.

As do those in the east.

 

[Rickyvol77]

As do those in the east.

No way Fascist Putin was trying to invade for peace and nazi killing. Liberating my comrades

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Azovstal civilians are hostages and human shields. Where is the condemnation of the Azov/Ukrainians not allowing them to leave?

Now, look at the lies by omission by the Western media. No mention of her telling them that they were being held captive by the Ukrainians in The Guardian story, while Der Spiegel tried to memory hole her video interview.

Mariupol evacuee recounts terror in bunkers below Azovstal steelworks - The Guardian

Germany’s Spiegel deletes testimony critical of Ukraine

 

[tvolsfan]

Where was NATO or the US during Rwanda genocide? Oh, and don't say that Rwanda is outside of NATO or the US's realm of influence, because they are now considering moving into the Pacific...

So your argument in favor of overlooking genocide because because we overlooked a different genocide?

 

[Rickyvol77]

So your argument in favor of overlooking genocide because because we overlooked a different genocide?

He doesn’t seem to grasp that we could’ve been wrong in the past and right on this and it STILL doesn’t justify Russia’s illegal invasion of another country

 

[MontyPython]

I guess they call them "Neptune's" for a reason.

Seems that AWOL @volgr and his husband "went down" on the ship too!

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

If you don't agree with The West, they consider you an enemy. They are pushing India away.

Netherlands envoy Oosterom deletes tweet after TS Tirumurti's 'don't patronise us' retort

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

So your argument in favor of overlooking genocide because because we overlooked a different genocide?

I'm simply wondering what makes Ukraine such a high priority when we have other examples of similar situations. Why is Ukraine so special?

 

[NorthDallas40]

No s**t. So what does that say if even he, an open and vocal critic of Trump, even admits that Trump is the only statesman in The West?

That he’s an idiot Communist? Isn’t that a tad redundant Moe?

 

[Septic]

Comrade. Kyiv was never the target. Soviet Russia like angry chihuahua, run up to Kyiv and bark loudly then retreat when kicked in alcoholic fatty liver. It was all a ruse by great comrade Pootin for glorious benefit of the Donbass region. We now retreat from Mariupol after being stymied by evil gay Nazi Satanist C.H.U.D.'s which was all part of Comrade Pootuns 6D chess triple stamp double stamp Triple Lindy maneuver.

The ole' triple lindy.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

He doesn’t seem to grasp that we could’ve been wrong in the past and right on this and it STILL doesn’t justify Russia’s illegal invasion of another country

I fully grasp that. But the problem is that if you claim we are getting it right in this moment in time in Ukraine, then why can't we get it right in this moment in time in other places like Northeast Syria, Yemen, Northern Cypress or Kosovo? All of those are going on right now, yet for some reason, we only single out the Ukraine conflict.

 

[MG1968]

No s**t. So what does that say if even he, an open and vocal critic of Trump, even admits that Trump is the only statesman in The West?

It says that Chomsky is, and always has been, an idiot.

 

[NorthDallas40]

I fully grasp that. But the problem is that if you claim we are getting it right in this moment in time in Ukraine, then why can't we get it right in this moment in time in other places like Northeast Syria, Yemen, Northern Cypress or Kosovo? All of those are going on right now, yet for some reason, we only single out the Ukraine conflict.

“Ok sure. We’re right this time. Butwhatabout…”

 

[Rickyvol77]

I fully grasp that. But the problem is that if you claim we are getting it right in this moment in time in Ukraine, then why can't we get it right in this moment in time in other places like Northeast Syria, Yemen, Northern Cypress or Kosovo? All of those are going on right now, yet for some reason, we only single out the Ukraine conflict.

That was the only place russia fully invaded

 

[NCFisher]

So those "separatists" don't deserve self-determination?

The answer to your question is easily 'No', not when they are a geographically dispersed, minority population who are the spear-tip of a gradualist Russian invasion. In effect, you are arguing the majority of Donbas people who wish to remain Ukrainian - either under the centralized Kyiv system or as an oblast under a federation model - are to have no rights of self-determination but are to be subjects of the minority Russ loyalists. Let's argue Nashville can break away to KY because Brentwood, Nolensville, Mt. Juliet and Spring Hill militamen backed by KY national guard forcefully take over Nashville administrative bldgs.

As I've pointed out prior, let's not forget who the 'separatists' are, a mixture of Russian military and pro-Russ Ukrainians. As many as 10 of 1000s of Russian military personnel have been in-country at any one time since 2014. The Russ loyalists can either subject themselves to a constitutionally legitimate referendum on the issue not administered by Russian but the Ukraine government, move to Russia, or learn to live with the majority of Donbas citizens who don't wish to be a Russian satellite state again.

Ask a hard question next time.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

“Ok sure. We’re right this time. Butwhatabout…”

Not whataboutism. Asking why the Ukraine situation is treated differently.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

That was the only place russia fully invaded

Why does it matter if it is Russia? Our allies the KSA is attacking Yemen, our ally Turkey is still occupying Northern Cypress, a US/NATO base in Kosovo and US occupation in Northeast Syria.

We can ignore all of those actions, but if it is Russia, we feel the need to take action.

 

[NorthDallas40]

Not whataboutism. Asking why the Ukraine situation is treated differently.

It’s a textbook example of whataboutism you do it so damn often you don’t even see it anymore.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

The answer to your question is easily 'No', not when they are a geographically dispersed, minority population who are the spear-tip of a gradualist Russian invasion. In effect, you are arguing the majority of Donbas people who wish to remain Ukrainian - either under the centralized Kyiv system or as an oblast under a federation model - are to have no rights of self-determination but are to be subjects of the minority Russ loyalists. Let's argue Nashville can break away to KY because Brentwood, Nolensville, Mt. Juliet and Spring Hill militamen backed by KY national guard forcefully take over Nashville administrative bldgs.

As I've pointed out prior, let's not forget who the 'separatists' are, a mixture of Russian military and pro-Russ Ukrainians. As many as 10 of 1000s of Russian military personnel have been in-country at any one time since 2014. The Russ loyalists can either subject themselves to a constitutionally legitimate referendum on the issue not administered by Russian but the Ukraine government, move to Russia, or learn to live with the majority of Donbas citizens who don't wish to be a Russian satellite state again.

Ask a hard question next time.

That simply is not correct. Yanukovich won these very same areas in 2004 and 2010 elections and could have only done so with the Ukrainians that live there also supporting him. And there is no reason to think that after the US ousted the candidate they supported, that these same people would not be just as pizzed about the outcome of the coup as their Russian neighbors.

2010 Map

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

It’s a textbook example of whataboutism you do it so damn often you don’t even see it anymore.

Answer the question. What makes this situation different?

 

[hog88]

Davey Crockett and the rest of those seditionists at the Alamo should have done the same. Same goes for the Israelis. Same goes for those Albanian Muslims in Kosovo.

The Texans won.

 

[hog88]

Mexico would be justified if the US was attacking Mexicans. Now the question you have to ask yourself is would the Mexicans be able to counter an American military? Likely not. Its a big difference between being justified to attack and having the ability to attack.

Also, when the shoe was on the other foot and Americans were being harassed and attacked in provincial Texas, what did the US end up doing?

What did the US do about Poncho Villa?

No country, especially a regional power, is going to allow what has been happening in Ukraine to continue for very long on their border.

The Russians were the cause of what was going on.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

The Texans won.

No one is arguing that they didn't win. It's obvious. What point are you trying to make by saying this?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

The Russians were the cause of what was going on.

The Russians did not overthrow a democratically elected president and pizz off the eastern portion of the country that heavily supported him. The US State Department did that.

 

[Hunerwadel]

Noam Chomsky says there is only one statesman in The West that wants to end this conflict...

Trump a statesman? I don't think his most ardent supporters would consider him a statesman.