War in Ukraine

#25,478
#25,478
KB5252 said:
I'm failing to see how a missile system produced in Russia by Russians and sent to bases across the former country prove this missile was used by Ukraine. There are so many different possibilities. Even if we were to be supplied with a list from Russia that would seem a little too convenient.

Take Russia's denial of even using this rocket in Ukraine when it has been shown that's a lie. When that lie didn't work I guess they moved on to it was fired from Ukraine held territory, which again is short of impossible to prove Ukraine did given the missile's mobility factor.

Russia has shown an historical and modern affinity for brutalizing their enemies. Rape is but another tool to bring the enemy to it's knees. If not at the order giving level it is undeniable at the field level. What's a missile to a train station to them? When Occam's razor is applied is difficult but to come to the conclusion Russia did this.

This doesn't mean Ukraine isn't corrupt, every government is to some degree. They certainly aren't innocent of war crimes from what I've seen. Particularly in how they treat Russian POW's and Ukrainian dissidents of Russian heritage. The issue is Ukrainian's are desperate, a desperation imposed on them by Russia.
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If you don't see that "for the children" is a psyop and propaganda, you aren't thinking critically. It is an obvious set up, just like the West tried to do in Syria and Assad allegedly using chemical attacks.
 
#25,479
#25,479
Rasputin_Vol said:
If you don't see that "for the children" is a psyop and propaganda, you aren't thinking critically. It is an obvious set up, just like the West tried to do in Syria and Assad allegedly using chemical attacks.
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Maybe it's a Russian psy-op set up to make you think it's a Ukranian psy-op. Don't criticize my double psy-op theory sheeple.
 
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#25,480
#25,480
Rasputin_Vol said:
If you don't see that "for the children" is a psyop and propaganda, you aren't thinking critically. It is an obvious set up, just like the West tried to do in Syria and Assad allegedly using chemical attacks.
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I don't trust either side, I just trust the side that's leaning on liberation and de-nazification while shelling neighborhoods and murdering civilians less.
 
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#25,482
#25,482
landscapingvol said:
Where does Russia’s responsibility fit in all of this, asking for a friend.
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Tell your friend that Russia spent 8 years holding their hands in their pockets while the Kiev regime attacked the Donbas and that NATO ignored Russia's legitimate security concerns. Tell your friend that the US needs to fix the problems here in America and get out of the regime change business.
 
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#25,485
#25,485
Putin has peaked American interest
That is all he ever wanted to do.
China wanted to see how much the United States of America reacted.

Russia and China know that America has only won 1 war on foreign territory (Japan).
That took a nuclear weapon.
No reason to fight, fights abroad.
 
#25,486
#25,486
T Clifton said:
Putin has peaked American interest
That is all he ever wanted to do.
China wanted to see how much the United States of America reacted.

Russia and China know that America has only won 1 war on foreign territory (Japan).
That took a nuclear weapon.
No reason to fight, fights abroad.
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So he was willing to have his military embarrass itself in front of the whole world just to see America's interest level?
 
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#25,487
#25,487
Rasputin_Vol said:
If you don't see that "for the children" is a psyop and propaganda, you aren't thinking critically. It is an obvious set up, just like the West tried to do in Syria and Assad allegedly using chemical attacks.
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Makes next to zero sense. The tradition of writing messages on bombs goes way back. The message is symbolic, as it's understood the message would be destroyed with the explosive detonating on impact. The message was never intended to be seen by anyone.

The only way anyone would have any expectation the message would legible would be if the rocket body were planted there after or before a controlled detonation intended to kill civilians for "psyops"which for numerous reasons is very unlikely to work with the number of camera phones and the activity required to pull it off would bring attention.

Simple logic and critical thinking would lead anyone to the conclusion that the missile was released with a message intended for only those shooting it off should they chose to remove their tin foil headdresses.
 
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#25,488
#25,488
Gandalf said:
Ok, good info - basically, its more like a factory number of missiles produced in the soviet era that are being used by Russia, Ukraine, Syria and others. Doesn't prove Ukraine did it, nor does it prove Russia did it. I would suspect that each missile does have some specific individual serial but I doubt there is a central registry that shows who each was transferred to last.

Anyway, good info - that is how you at least put your point forward.
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Correct. Just tells you factory of origin for all of them.
 
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#25,489
#25,489
T Clifton said:
Putin has peaked American interest
That is all he ever wanted to do.
China wanted to see how much the United States of America reacted.

Russia and China know that America has only won 1 war on foreign territory (Japan).
That took a nuclear weapon.
No reason to fight, fights abroad.
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???

Gulf War. (Desert Storm) WW I (Germany); WW II (Germany), Spanish-American War (fought in the Caribbean), Boxer Rebellion (fought in China), Kosovo War
 
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#25,490
#25,490
Rasputin_Vol said:
Tell your friend that Russia spent 8 years holding their hands in their pockets while the Kiev regime attacked the Donbas and that NATO ignored Russia's legitimate security concerns. Tell your friend that the US needs to fix the problems here in America and get out of the regime change business.
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I wouldn't say they held their hands in their pockets. They were sponsoring, training and arming separatists in Ukraine.
 
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#25,492
#25,492
Rasputin_Vol said:
If you don't see that "for the children" is a psyop and propaganda, you aren't thinking critically. It is an obvious set up, just like the West tried to do in Syria and Assad allegedly using chemical attacks.
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No doubt there is psyops and propaganda flying around from both directions. But if you are going to dispel it, you can't simply point and say "thats not true". You have to do a credible job of bringing evidence of your argument (not necessarily proof). That evidence should be compelling to the average thinking person. It is like swaying the jury of public opinion.

If you can't deliver, it doesnt help your argument to speak up - EVEN IF WHAT YOU ARE SAYING MAY BE TRUE. Doesnt matter - all that matters is what you can demonstrate. Right now, Ukraine (EU/US Defense/state dept actually) is doing a way better job at that game. Don't complain, get better at it if you want to convince people.
 
#25,493
#25,493
Orangeburst said:
Going to be really interesting how this admin handles the next variant..which is coming
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If it all goes to crap just before the election, all you can say is karma ... and she's usually in a bad mood. Biden's Pootin oil moment is peaking too soon to save his butt; you can only point the fickle finger of fate elsewhere for so long.
 
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#25,495
#25,495
Sea Ray said:
???

Gulf War. (Desert Storm) WW I (Germany); WW II (Germany), Spanish-American War (fought in the Caribbean), Boxer Rebellion (fought in China), Kosovo War
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Sea Ray said:
???

Gulf War. (Desert Storm) WW I (Germany); WW II (Germany), Spanish-American War (fought in the Caribbean), Boxer Rebellion (fought in China), Kosovo War
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When this is the list you bring up..... you make my point.
 
#25,496
#25,496
Gandalf said:
No doubt there is psyops and propaganda flying around from both directions. But if you are going to dispel it, you can't simply point and say "thats not true". You have to do a credible job of bringing evidence of your argument (not necessarily proof). That evidence should be compelling to the average thinking person. It is like swaying the jury of public opinion.

If you can't deliver, it doesnt help your argument to speak up - EVEN IF WHAT YOU ARE SAYING MAY BE TRUE. Doesnt matter - all that matters is what you can demonstrate. Right now, Ukraine (EU/US Defense/state dept actually) is doing a way better job at that game. Don't complain, get better at it if you want to convince people.
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The Russians, Chinese and Indians have been calling for an independent investigation in Bucha and the UK shot that down. Don't point the finger at me or Russia. The West should be more than willing to open up an investigation. What are they afraid of?
 
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#25,497
#25,497
AM64 said:
If it all goes to crap just before the election, all you can say is karma ... and she's usually in a bad mood. Biden's Pootin oil moment is peaking too soon to save his butt; you can only point the fickle finger of fate elsewhere for so long.
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Inflation is that thing a politician can’t wiggle out of. It literally touches everyone.
 
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#25,499
#25,499
allvol123 said:
So he was willing to have his military embarrass itself in front of the whole world just to see America's interest level?
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Absolutely. 2 years of lockdowns have taken a toll on Sh**hole countries. Putin is relying on China to stay afloat. China is locking down Shanghai to keep Joe Biden. United States needs mail in votes to keep Joe Biden. Ukraine is the little brother who takes all the sh**. It's easy to see what is going on.
 
#25,500
#25,500
Rasputin_Vol said:
Sure. But they also were expecting the other side of the conflict to hold up their end of the Minsk II ceasefire agreement.
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So, they arm the opposition they negotiated for and want the other side to abide by cease fire they helped to violate?

It's much more complicated than you make it out to be and had it not been for Russia meddling in their neighbors affairs against the people's will it would have never happened. American influence got into Ukraine in the first place because the people wanted to align west.
 
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