War in Ukraine

#25,351
#25,351
volgr said:
I have answered the question plenty. Russia is only partly at fault and their military operation was justified. That doesn't make me pro-Russian, it just means we disagree in our assessment. As Scott Adams would say, we see 2 movies being played on the same screen. Again, no matter how we got here, we are here. So, realistically, do you expect a Country who is a winning a war to pack up and go home without accomplishing their goals? Come on.
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This is justified? What had Ukraine done to Russia to justify what we are seeing ?
 
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#25,352
#25,352
BigOrangeTrain said:
You don’t think NATO has any blame in this??
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This being Russias invasion of Ukraine? Heck no.

Now is Vlad freaking out about what NATO could possibly do? Yes. But that doesnt mean NATO itself is the cause. What's ironic is that Vlads action make what he is afraid of NATO possibly doing more likely. It's a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy, but it circles back to Russia, not NATO.
 
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#25,353
#25,353
Gandalf said:
This pretty much lays out why my BS meter on Ukraine reporting went ballistic from the start, since this had all the hallmarks of being used as a wag the dog. - and why its not working as planned.

Nolte: Why the Media's Moral Panic Around Ukraine Failed to Save Biden

As we all saw in the first days of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, the goal of Democrats and their corporate media allies was to swamp the news cycle with hysterical, 24/7 stories about this moral outrage. The invasion was deliberately covered in an overwhelming and coordinated flood of “outrage” stories that would knock inflation/crime/illegal immigration/gas prices, etc., out of the news cycle.
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Or maybe there was a lot of coverage because it's the biggest land war in Europe in our lifetime?

Idiotic.
 
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#25,354
#25,354
Gandalf said:
This pretty much lays out why my BS meter on Ukraine reporting went ballistic from the start, since this had all the hallmarks of being used as a wag the dog. - and why its not working as planned.

Nolte: Why the Media's Moral Panic Around Ukraine Failed to Save Biden

As we all saw in the first days of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, the goal of Democrats and their corporate media allies was to swamp the news cycle with hysterical, 24/7 stories about this moral outrage. The invasion was deliberately covered in an overwhelming and coordinated flood of “outrage” stories that would knock inflation/crime/illegal immigration/gas prices, etc., out of the news cycle.

The second goal was to create an actual moral panic. The template would be the same one used to cause so much destruction around the murder of George Floyd and the coronavirus. Remember, it wasn’t enough to want to see justice for George Floyd. You must literally kneel before the terrorists in Black Lives Matter and approve of their riots. It wasn’t enough to get vaccinated. You had to approve of fascist mandates and the abusive masking of two-year-olds. And so, it wasn’t enough to hope Russian President Vladimir Putin was humiliated in Ukraine. You must HATE Putin, HATE all Russians and DEMAND America be on the “right side of history” to destroy Russia and Russians!

Within moments of the invasion, every sector of the organized left (Democrats, neocons, corporate media, entertainment, Big Business, and Big Tech) had mobilized to engineer this moral panic. This is “good versus evil,” they screamed! This is about preserving democracy! Where is your Ukrainian flag?!?! Where is your hatred for Putin, you Putin lover! How dare you read Tolstoy!

We also saw — and this was the most crucial part of the plot — Biden lifted on the shoulders of this moral panic as our warrior and champion. The narrative immediately turned away from record inflation and surging violent crime to Amazing Joe Biden Organizes World Against Evil Putin!

In summation… The two-part plot was to 1) manipulate the public into a moral panic where we cared about Ukraine and only Ukraine, and 2) present Biden as the competent, strong, moral wartime leader and champion of that crusade. The result was supposed to be a presidential reboot, which is the only thing that could save Biden’s presidency and the Democrat party’s backsides in the upcoming midterms.
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I don't buy it. This is a much longer play. Is there anyone who really believes Biden is going to run again? I don't think they are worried about saving his Presidency (hell they could do a Presidential reboot by getting him to resign over the Biden family's scandal...and they get to take the high ground vs the perceived corrupt Trump family) nor do I think high ranking Dems were under any illusion that creating this wag the dog scenario would save them in the mid-terms.
 
#25,355
#25,355
apevol said:
There'll be virtually no young male population of the breakaway republics after this is over.
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That is a very real risk. One that should be factored in by those fighting.

But just because it might be unacceptable to our sensibilities, it may be acceptable to a Slav. And we have seen they get pretty crazy in these Slav-offs.
 
#25,357
#25,357
Rasputin_Vol said:
This has been from the very beginning a Hollywood/Operation Mockingbird program. The blending of media, Deep State talking points and entertainment during this conflict has been on Level 1000. An actor playing a president in Ukraine and a geriatric senile guy that can barely read a teleprompter as POTUS are going to lead us to WWIII... and the sheeple are eagerly lining up behind the effort.

Bizarre ISIS-Style Propaganda Video Shows Ukrainian Woman Mock-Executing Russian Soldier | ZeroHedge

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You mean like the music video the Russians used to try and disprove something the Ukrainians didnt do?
 
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#25,361
#25,361
volgr said:
I dont cheer for Russia as you say. Actually, I have been quite clear that I couldnt care less if they lose and tuck tail back to Moscow and in the same respect I couldnt care less if Ukraine loses and Russia takes/carves up their land. I have also said they arent as disciplined in their tactics as the US and have made plenty of military blunders.

So, it could be we just disagree on narrative and I'm not actually pro-Russian?
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I said from the beginning that Ukraine was winning the propaganda war and I stand by that. Who is winning the ground war, remains to be seen. The only issue I have with your posts, is that you take the Russian propaganda and run with it just like others do with the Ukrainian propaganda. This conflict is far from over and unless you are getting firsthand accounts from the military, you are just guessing as to the actual intelligence as is everyone else. Your "truth" is no more or less relevant and accurate than anyone else's on here.
 
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#25,362
#25,362
volgr said:
I don't buy it. This is a much longer play. Is there anyone who really believes Biden is going to run again? I don't think they are worried about saving his Presidency (hell they could do a Presidential reboot by getting him to resign over the Biden family's scandal...and they get to take the high ground vs the perceived corrupt Trump family) nor do I think high ranking Dems were under any illusion that creating this wag the dog scenario would save them in the mid-terms.
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The media companies are trying to sell advertising and support their political agendas. Covid-19 was a good crisis and sold advertising for a long time. They needed another crisis and they found one. Most of them also like emphasizing stories that help their political allies. Breitbart has it's own audience and agenda. Promoting Harris to President would not help the Democrats. I generally agree with the longer play idea. Even if they don't save control of the house in the mid-terms, they may reduce the losses and improve their position for later. Media enhanced crisis or not, we can still consider competing viewpoints and come to our own conclusions about Russia and Ukraine.
 
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#25,365
#25,365
BigOrangeTrain said:
You don’t think NATO has any blame in this??
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No, and it's a BS question to even suggest it. NATO is a mutual defense pact against aggressors. Don't stray across borders to cause harm to a NATO nation, and NATO doesn't come into play. If a NATO country or any other country wants to support a victim of invasion, that's still not an indication that NATO itself is an active participant.
 
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#25,367
#25,367
NATO is a colossal waste of money for the US, it is an outdated alliance that quite frankly most of Europe has relied on for way too much in terms of defense against Russia. Europe needs to form a defensive alliance on their own against Russia and let the US, Japan, South Korea, and Australia worry about China or North Korea. We cannot continue to afford to prop up many of them militarily when they are more than capable of doing it themselves including our nuclear arsenal.
 
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