War in Ukraine

#23,001
#23,001
DonjoVol said:
My debate tactics are more than fine. I know how to stand my ground and get my points across. The problem is many people don't like when I stand by ground or disagree so they resort to insults, name calling, personal attacks, etc. It's a common tactic here on Volnation. And to top it off. When I throw their behavior back at them I'm the bad guy lol.

Anyways, you want to discuss some of the points I've made today that's fine. I'm willing to do it. You might not change my mind and I might not change yours. Which is fine. As long as people are civil and mostly respectful I can agree to disagree.
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LMAO
 
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#23,002
#23,002
Well, Putin’s “miscalculation” has already awakened the slumbering Germans to military preparation. Looks like a second member of the Axis is joining with the Germans to produce a new generation of “shock” troops 😂

Before long, the Italians will be firing up the pasta works 😉
 
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#23,004
#23,004
KB5252 said:
I'm not a supporter of either side, what happened in 1-6 was bad enough. No need to embellish it as the left so often does. You are no different than the right you make fun of, literally a different side of the same fools coin. But go ahead and assume I'm some right supporting fool. I support neither party, just a spectator watching fools argue which side is worse playing whataboutisms and claiming righteousness.

Carry on
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Remember the last part of the 1st Amendment "or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances." The protesters on 1/6 did assemble and did attempt to address the government. For once the assembly was where those who should be listening were seated vs riotous gatherings in random streets. You may argue the "peaceful" aspect of 1/6, but it was certainly far more restrained than the demonstrations that had been going on for months before - I'd argue that precedent said this wasn't out of line considering months of riots with little government effort to rein them in. Standards should apply evenly or there are no standards.
 
#23,008
#23,008
AM64 said:
Remember the last part of the 1st Amendment "or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances." The protesters on 1/6 did assemble and did attempt to address the government. For once the assembly was where those who should be listening were seated vs riotous gatherings in random streets. You may argue the "peaceful" aspect of 1/6, but it was certainly far more restrained than the demonstrations that had been going on for months before - I'd argue that precedent said this wasn't out of line considering months of riots with little government effort to rein them in. Standards should apply evenly or there are no standards.
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I agree that in a large part many of these demonstrating were frustrated at the lawlessness they saw the and the government's hands off, and in some cases actually encouraging the disruptive and violent behavior.

The demonstrations were fine but the actions of some were over the top.
 
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#23,010
#23,010
Septic said:
It's all smoke an mirrors. You keep pointing at the rouble rebounding vs the dollar and no doubt, Pootin has done a good job at stabilizing the rouble in the short term. But the long term effects are going to be brutal.

Remember when the sinking Titanic was vertical and then broke in half and the stern was floating normally for a few minutes. That's where Russia's economy is right now.
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Good thing for Russia, what actually happens is usually the opposite of what Septic predicts...
 
#23,012
#23,012
KB5252 said:
I agree that in a large part many of these demonstrating were frustrated at the lawlessness they saw the and the government's hands off, and in some cases actually encouraging the disruptive and violent behavior.

The demonstrations were fine but the actions of some were over the top.
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Agreed. I just wish that for once the people reporting and publishing opinion would point out that the 1/6 protesters were actually carrying out the protests (perhaps less than correctly) as the 1st Amendment actually discusses. Further, on 1/6 the legislators who represent the government (and supposedly us) refused to listen as usual. It's a shame congress collectively doesn't have the balls to adhere to it's obligation under the 1st Amendment. Perhaps with openness and maybe a little fear, our legislators might do the bidding of the people.
 
#23,013
#23,013
Ukrainians are so ****ing organized guys. First they went after the howitzers. Big anti aircraft. Then they took out the tanks... and I can post a few, but this guy has been doing a good job imo. Thy are making serious headway. Even if Russia squats, Ukraine will want it all back IMO.
 
#23,015
#23,015
volgr said:
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I can confirm this. I also read the same. But, between what's left of Ukraine (they have not stopped making weapons altogether), and what Russia has given them (They have more components than Russia does), and foreign weapons... I wouldn't **** with them.
 
#23,018
#23,018
landscapingvol said:
You are comparing apples to oranges. The US and it’s allies were engaged with an enemy that implemented a total war strategy. At that point, the allies only option was to fight in the same fashion. The US did not conduct many effective bombing campaigns into the German heartland until mid 1944 due to stiff German air defenses. They didn’t bomb Dresden until 1945. They also bombed during the daytime which further complicated their strategy. I will admit area bombing wasn’t the greatest strategy compared to British strategies but as stated earlier they were left with few options. If the US conducted a total war strategy on an enemy where that strategy was unnecessary, then yes we would deserve it.
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Strategic bombing was still in it's infancy during WW2. Vietnam era fighters could carry a bigger bomb load than B-17s and B-24s. The Norden bombsight was superior to anything else at the time but that and dumb bombs were still just trying to be close - nothing like precision guided munitions of today. Also bomber losses on deep strikes were very heavy until the P-51 as a long range bomber escort came along in numbers and tactics were revised (the best date I've seen is realistically early 1944) and attrition hurt the Germans. The Germans had only so many seasoned fighter pilots, and they weren't rotated, they fought until killed; by late in the war the cream of those pilots were gone. Hitler's micromanaging hurt, too; he kept the German jet fighters from developing faster because he thought they should be bombers.

German strategic bombing failed and it galvanized the British. Allied strategic bombing together with German losses and privations demoralized the German people. Strategic bombing of Japan was probably intended for shock value, and in the end it did work that way.
 
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#23,019
#23,019
volgr said:
I would wager most Americans couldnt find Ukraine on a map before the war started and maybe most still cant now. Russian citizens should be more knowledgeable because this has been an ongoing family feud of sorts in their own backyard. Americans dont give a crap about that.
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Respect national borders, and it's not a problem.
 
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#23,020
#23,020
We are talking about the worlds most elite descended on Ukraine. People who can not escape war. Ukraine has a highly trained ground force rn.
 
#23,023
#23,023
AM64 said:
Respect national borders, and it's not a problem.
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If the World were Utopia I would agree, but unfortunately it isn't. Ukraine and Russia, like 2 little kids, have both been pickin' at each other (as my granny would say back in the day) for years. Which side was pickin' more is up for debate as is obvious in this thread. At the end of the day, a border is just a line on a map that has to be protected by diplomacy and a military, both of which Ukraine failed at spectacularly.
 
#23,025
#23,025
IluvdoubleD's said:
We are talking about the worlds most elite descended on Ukraine. People who can not escape war. Ukraine has a highly trained ground force rn.
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Ukraine's most highly trained are sitting ducks in the middle of a cauldron. They are effed and not effed in the way normal people like to be effed but effed in the way Septic likes to be effed.

At some point, some of you have to come to grips with reality.
 
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