War in Ukraine

#20,876
#20,876
Rasputin_Vol said:
Not every case exactly lines up perfectly. But the point is that you didn't have any issue with the idea of "to the victor, goes the spoils", especially when the aggressor is the one that loses. I'm sure you saw no problem with that in Palestine, so you should see no issue if the Kiev Regime, being the aggressors over the last 8 years against the Donbas, lose some land (or a lot of land) due to their poor decisions. If they would have chosen Minsk II in 2015 and abided by the ceasefire agreements, we wouldn't be where we are now. Instead, the gambled on more war and are destined to lose not just Donbas, but likely their entire Black Sea coast.
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That's not what I said, the caveat was if the aggressor loses the victim can take a little. Not really the same.
 
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#20,879
#20,879
Rasputin_Vol said:
If we would play our cards right, it can be a multipol;ar world, rather than a unipolar/US globalist world.

Maintaining all of this global policing and inserting ourselves in these silly azz regional conflicts is taxing on a country and robs it of productivity and diminishes quality of life for the people at home.

Time for us to focus on America and rebuild our economy here at home rather than worry about Ukraine, South Korea, Israel or Taiwan...
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I don't disagree about building our economy and manufacturing at all. And we should focus more at home for sure.

Those silly regional conflicts would still take place, only there would be a different power working against us and our interests.

How we play our cards has little to do with it. If we relinquish the lead, whether that be by choice or incompetence, it will just be taken by another. There is no real homogeny, there will always be conflict between powers.
 
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#20,880
#20,880
volgr said:
If America had to choose one Country to align with for the next 30 years, who would you rather have...Europe or Russia?
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Russia hands down. Western Europe is a sinking ship with no moral core, politicians that are just as stupid and as "woke" as our present leadership, and don't have any prospects of turning around in the near future.

Russia, on the other hand, seems to be trying to address the demographic issues, has been forced to build a real economy, not one revolving around FIRE (Finance, Insurance, and real estate) and has moved to support the Russian orthodox church.
 
#20,881
#20,881
Rasputin_Vol said:
Oh yeah, that is just me cooking up a crazy hypothetical situation. I do think, however, that the DNC will try to do something to salvage midterms and may go to extreme measures to do so. Very extreme measures...
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The Dems will keep the Senate and maybe even increase their seats but lose the house.
 
#20,882
#20,882
Rasputin_Vol said:
Russia hands down. Western Europe is a sinking ship with no moral core, politicians that are just as stupid and as "woke" as our present leadership, and don't have any prospects of turning around in the near future.

Russia, on the other hand, seems to be trying to address the demographic issues, has been forced to build a real economy, not one revolving around FIRE (Finance, Insurance, and real estate) and has moved to support the Russian orthodox church.
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I would agree and was going to label Europe as a sinking ship myself. They are a frivolous ridiculous lot who have very little left to offer the World.
 
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#20,885
#20,885
KB5252 said:
That sounds eerily like the Communist ideal in that in a perfect world this is how it works work. But history has shown us nations and allied powers seek to control.
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I don't disagree to a certain extent, but at this very moment, I don't think China, Russia or even the US is fully equipped to dominate the world. We are running on fumes and the other two just are not able for one reason or another.

KB5252 said:
As you drew parallels to the absence of Saddam creating a vacuum and bringing chaos and suffering to Iraq. I would argue that's precisely what would happen in the absence of our power. Someone else would establish themselves, until they did the world would be much less stable than it is now.
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Well of course if we retreated back to our hemisphere, the gap will be filled by China and/or Russia. But you are going to have to convince me that the world would be much less stable than it is right now when we have people in the West and US running things right now. All I'm saying is that these guys that are in charge right now in the West are far more dangerous and are a more immediate threat to mankind than anything I've seen out of China or Russia. The main reason why China would be next on the list of concerns is because these same leaders are bribed, controlled and influenced by China. Had we had honest, nationalist politicians instead of corrupt globalists, China wouldn't be much of a concern.
 
#20,886
#20,886
KB5252 said:
That's not what I said, the caveat was if the aggressor loses the victim can take a little. Not really the same.
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And in this case, the aggressor has been the Ukrainians/Kiev Regime over the last 8 years. They have had the option of choosing peace, but the West kept encouraging them to fight on.
 
#20,887
#20,887
Gandalf said:
Amos 3:3 “How can two walk together unless they are agreed?” Cultural homogeneity is the historical foundation for a successful society. Yes, if it is too monolithic, it can become stagnant yet unless the vast majority adhere to similar principles, the society will be torn apart by internal divisions. This goes for organizations as well as civilizations. If the "fringe" element grows past 5-10%, then cohesion suffers. Yet some fringe is necessary to keep challenging and refreshing ideas.

No civilization in history has survived multiculturalism. The great Muslim scholar Ibn Khaldûn chronicled much the same in the preamble, The Muqaddimah, of his magnum opus of history. From his perspective of the 14th century, he saw that societies started out strong because they were cohesive and lean. Later, after rising to power, they became decadent and fat, their ideals and officials corrupted through plurality of their empire. Then, would rise up at the edge of the empire a lean, cohesive peoples who would take over the greater or break it - because the empire was too riven with internal divisions to fight back effectively.

America is not strong because it is multicultural. It has been strong specifically due to its homogeneity of thought in most areas. If you see why America has survived and become preeminent, you can see just how relatively homogenous it has been throughout its history. That is not to say we have not had disagreements but by and large, until recently, the vast majority of Americans agreed on the most core tenents of life. Take religion, whether baptist or Methodist or other, Americans tended to be overwhelmingly protestant Christians or at least culturally so.

Culture is largely proscribed by religion. There are simply few places of agreement between a Muslim, a Catholic, a Buddhist, a Jew and an Atheist. They do not see the world in the same way or see the same things as valuable. While Protestants differ from Catholics and squabble across multiple denominations, this is arguing over the number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin by comparison. Atheists will come and loudly bray that this is not so, but there is no escaping it. In every country we see. Compare countries largely run by a Muslim majority, an atheist majority, a Catholic one, an old line Protestant one (Europe). There is much homogeneity there within them and vast differences between those categories.


RELIGION > CULTURE > POLITICS > LAWS
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Excellent.
 
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#20,888
#20,888
volgr said:
You think they hold or gain in the Senate? That's going to be tough at this point, unless something drastic changes.
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Much easier to manipulate the vote in the large cities than it is to do it in the individual districts. They hold and probably gain in the Senate.
 
#20,889
#20,889
Rasputin_Vol said:
Well no s**t they didn't leave. They were not allowed to after fighting a war over the issue.

They supported the Donbas republics over the last 8 years of conflict and then invaded once it was clear in their minds that the Ukrainian army was about to make yet another offensive in the region in late February.

The Donbas region waning to break away and thus starting a civil war is not different than the Confederate States wanting to break away from the Union. Or from Eritrea wanting to break away from Ethiopia. Or South Sudan from Sudan. Or any other internal conflict between a country and separatists.
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No, they did not, not even in the separatist held areas. This is fiction.
 
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#20,890
#20,890
KB5252 said:
How we play our cards has little to do with it. If we relinquish the lead, whether that be by choice or incompetence, it will just be taken by another. There is no real homogeny, there will always be conflict between powers.
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I'll say this in closing for now... maintaining our present path is not sustainable. We have pizz poor leadership, a decadent and largely immoral culture and a belligerent and hubristic foreign policy that continues to drain us of blood and treasure. Its time to stop this. Right now. Time to pull back to our borders, clean house here and rebuild. Not just physical rebuilding... we need get away from this immoral, decadent, lazy, "woke", gender-bender nonsense.
 
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#20,891
#20,891
KB5252 said:
Then stop with the Ukraine broke Minsk nonsense. Neither side abided.
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No, that isn't the case. When the talks ended, the Donbas was willing to stop. But the Kiev Regime would go back and start it back up again. So what were they supposed to do, just sit there and not defend themselves?
 
#20,894
#20,894
Rasputin_Vol said:
I'll say this in closing for now... maintaining our present path is not sustainable. We have pizz poor leadership, a decadent and largely immoral culture and a belligerent and hubristic foreign policy that continues to drain us of blood and treasure. Its time to stop this. Right now. Time to pull back to our borders, clean house here and rebuild. Not just physical rebuilding... we need get away from this immoral, decadent, lazy, "woke", gender-bender nonsense.
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Once Pandora's box is opened...... You know the rest. Just isn't going to happen. The only possible way is for a complete collapse and regeneration of society. You know this as well as anyone.

As far as Russia goes, they are headed down the same moral path.... They're just behind the curve.
 
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#20,895
#20,895
hog88 said:
Much easier to manipulate the vote in the large cities than it is to do it in the individual districts. They hold and probably gain in the Senate.
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True, but in a lot of these key swing States, it ain't 2020 any longer. There won't be huge dumps of ballots harvested from mail-ins in the middle of the night. You want to see what voting reforms do, look at Broward Co, Fl before DeSantis got in and cracked down with voting reforms and after. If the vote is legit, I don't see how the Dems hold the Senate.
 
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#20,896
#20,896
KB5252 said:
As far as Russia goes, they are headed down the same moral path.... They're just behind the curve.
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I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on this point. I think they reached their bottom after the collapse of the USSR. A lot of lessons learned by them after 70+ years of communism.
 
#20,897
#20,897
volgr said:
True, but in a lot of these key swing States, it ain't 2020 any longer. There won't be huge dumps of ballots harvested from mail-ins in the middle of the night. You want to see what voting reforms do, look at Broward Co, Fl before DeSantis got in and cracked down with voting reforms and after. If the vote is legit, I don't see how the Dems hold the Senate.
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We shall see.

My newest concern is now what kind of GOP candidates will we have to pick from? Will it be more candidates similar to Trump or thanks to this Ukraine nonsense, more candidates similar to Romney and McCain?
 
#20,899
#20,899
volgr said:
It's almost opposite of what the mainstream news says...
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Odd. You create 10 million refugees, turn every industry in a country upside down and their are revenue issues?

Exactly what about this stupid tweet is the opposite of what anyone was saying? I missed the “if Ukraine will just let Russia invade, they will be flush with cash”.
 
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#20,900
#20,900
volgr said:
It's almost opposite of what the mainstream news says...
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Wait a minute, wasn't there just an announcement on twitter in the past few days about some or a portion of that $14 billion in aid had already made it to Ukraine?

Did Biden sanction Ukraine, also?
 
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