‘23 CA QB Nicholaus Iamaleava (Tennessee)

[Vol8188]

I don't agree with that at all. Competitve balance in the NFL is much better, and the problems they have had recently seem to stem from how important they have made the QB position with rule changes, and there simply aren't that many good QBs. IMO.

Like I said, the NIL money is just labor costs disguised as NIL. The reason it is allowed is because it, theoretically, has nothing to do with the university. But that's a joke.

Are good players getting paid exponentially more because they are exponentially more popular, or because they are exponentially better players? Did AM just pay 30 million dollars because they brought in the most popular 25 high school kids in the country?

By under the table I don't mean illegal. I just mean it has nothing to do with name, image, or likeness per se. That's just the vehicle.

Cleveland, KC, Tampa bay, Nationals, Cubs, Giants, are all teams with below average salaries. Cleveland and KC are chronically in the bottom 5-10 teams. All have won it all in the last decade. The Yankees have won 0.

The last 8 World Series winners consist of 8 different teams, most from the bottom half of the mlb in salary.

That’s a very strong argument for parity. Especially given the NFL has one team that’s one 3 of the last 8 Super Bowls

The rest of your argument is just nonsense. The idea that NIL would/could/ or even should be completely separated from performance is absurd. With rare exceptions (Rodman for example) jersey sales and endorsements have always been a function of production more so than personality. No one arguing for NIL was doing so, nor was the law intended to, on the basis of personality/popularity.

What do you mean it has nothing to do with NIL? If I buy an autographed jersey I’m doing so because the name on the jersey is a player I perceive as elite. What’s happening with nil specifically that you don’t like

 

[SSVol]

Cleveland, KC, Tampa bay, Nationals, Cubs, Giants, are all teams with below average salaries. Cleveland and KC are chronically in the bottom 5-10 teams. All have won it all in the last decade. The Yankees have won 0.

The last 8 World Series winners consist of 8 different teams, most from the bottom half of the mlb in salary.

That’s a very strong argument for parity. Especially given the NFL has one team that’s one 3 of the last 8 Super Bowls

The draft tends to balance things. Prevent UGA or Bama from getting players in the top 100. How long do they stay at the top?

 

[Vol8188]

The draft tends to balance things. Prevent UGA or Bama from getting players in the top 100. How long do they stay at the top?

Who cares how long they stay at the top? Are you wanting to force kids to go to school in Wyoming so you can achieve some fairy tale of fairness?

 

[SSVol]

Who cares how long they stay at the top? Are you wanting to force kids to go to school in Wyoming so you can achieve some fairy tale of fairness?

Man you are just the king of straw men, aren't you? I didn't say I would force anyone to do anything. I was explaining how the draft tended to balance things. Playing off of Dooley's comment that "NSD was just like the NFL draft except that Bama got the first 25 picks", the equivalent of the draft in college ball would be to limit who could take the highest ranked players.

 

[Vol8188]

Man you are just the king of straw men, aren't you? I didn't say I would force anyone to do anything. I was explaining how the draft tended to balance things. Playing off of Dooley's comment that "NSD was just like the NFL draft except that Bama got the first 25 picks", the equivalent of the draft in college ball would be to limit who could take the highest ranked players.

LMFAO.

1. Asking a question "are you wanting to _____" is not a strawman.

2. You pretend this is some terrible mis-presentation of your argument and then 2 sentences later you're back to promoting the idea of telling kids where they can go to school.

Perhaps we could avoid this if you would clearly state your stance. Earlier you seemed to be stating you had no problem with the current system but that the market may reset...okay...fair enough. Markets do that. I don't see the problem.

Now you're promoting the idea of limiting where a kid can go to school?

How about you simply clearly state would you like to see changed and why?

 

[Orange_Crush]

Cleveland, KC, Tampa bay, Nationals, Cubs, Giants, are all teams with below average salaries. Cleveland and KC are chronically in the bottom 5-10 teams. All have won it all in the last decade. The Yankees have won 0.

The last 8 World Series winners consist of 8 different teams, most from the bottom half of the mlb in salary.

That’s a very strong argument for parity. Especially given the NFL has one team that’s one 3 of the last 8 Super Bowls

The rest of your argument is just nonsense. The idea that NIL would/could/ or even should be completely separated from performance is absurd. With rare exceptions (Rodman for example) jersey sales and endorsements have always been a function of production more so than personality. No one arguing for NIL was doing so, nor was the law intended to, on the basis of personality/popularity.

What do you mean it has nothing to do with NIL? If I buy an autographed jersey I’m doing so because the name on the jersey is a player I perceive as elite. What’s happening with nil specifically that you don’t like

Recruiting by definition isn't a thing of popularity. It's based on performance. So, if NIL corresponds roughly to recruiting ranking, it corresponds to perceived performance.

 

[Vol8188]

Recruiting by definition isn't a thing of popularity. It's based on performance. So, if NIL corresponds roughly to recruiting ranking, it corresponds to perceived performance.

I'm still amazed that anyone could believe NIL was intended to or would ever be about popularity separate from performance. It's obvious those drafting the rule, those supporting the rule, everyone is and has always been aware that NIL deals would be closely related to performance.

 

[SSVol]

LMFAO.

1. Asking a question "are you wanting to _____" is not a strawman.

2. You pretend this is some terrible mis-presentation of your argument and then 2 sentences later you're back to promoting the idea of telling kids where they can go to school. If you would clearly.

Perhaps we could avoid this if you would clearly state your stance. Early you seemed to be stating you had no problem with the current system but that the market may reset...okay...fair enough. Markets do that. I don't see the problem.

Now you're promoting the idea of limiting where a kid can go to school?

How about you simply clearly state would you like to see changed and why?

It was a rhetorical statement and rhetorical question.

I am not suggesting anything be changed. My entire involvement in the painful conversation has simply been to offer that I cannot see any reasonable way for high school juniors to be offered more money (in the long term) than NFL draftees are making, and wondering at what time that normalizes to something more sustainable.

I do not care what they make. My only interest in this is when oil money from Texas or grocery money from Kentucky or Walmart money from Arkansas make it difficult for us to remain at the current level we expect, and then people become disillusioned and we can't recruit at a level we're accustomed. In the current environment, once you fall in the hole, it will be very difficult to climb back out.

I look forward to your misstatement of my position.

 

[Orange_Crush]

It was a rhetorical statement and rhetorical question.

I am not suggesting anything be changed. My entire involvement in the painful conversation has simply been to offer that I cannot see any reasonable way for high school juniors to be offered more money (in the long term) than NFL draftees are making, and wondering at what time that normalizes to something more sustainable.

Really? NCAAF is a billion dollar industry, founded on the performance of high-visibility college football players. You can't see any reasonable way that sponsorship money would/could/should be thrown at them?

I do not care what they make. My only interest in this is when oil money from Texas or grocery money from Kentucky or Walmart money from Arkansas make it difficult for us to remain at the current level we expect, and then people become disillusioned and we can't recruit at a level we're accustomed. In the current environment, once you fall in the hole, it will be very difficult to climb back out.

I look forward to your misstatement of my position.

(a) I personally feel it's wrong to limit a person's personal freedoms to promote competitiveness of organizations.
(b) The market would probably correct for the lack of parity if it becomes too much of an issue. If it ruined the game, viewership/interest would drop, as would the money being spent on NIL.

 

[SSVol]

Really? NCAAF is a billion dollar industry, founded on the performance of high-visibility college football players. You can't see any reasonable way that sponsorship money would/could/should be thrown at them?

Y'all are trolling me right?

Again, not what I said. I do not believe that a high school junior has established a value that is greater than a 4th year starter who just got drafted, and yet, the numbers being suggested at TAMU (and hinted at for Nico) are well into NFL money. If this is a market, and it is, it would be considered overbought when people are paying more than a fair market value for something. When markets are overbought, they correct themselves. Like an IPO, values sometimes overshoot, and then correct to sustainable levels. I was asking if that might be what we're seeing. That's it. Will it go back down? Don't know. Thought it was an interesting question. Very, very sorry I asked it.

 

[VolNash17]

So…. Any news about nico. You know the player’s thread? Hope we get him. Weather looks perfect finally and money will be offered. Hopefully it’s enough

 

[SSVol]

So…. Any news about nico. You know the player’s thread? Hope we get him. Weather looks perfect finally and money will be offered. Hopefully it’s enough

Please, please, somebody offer some news.

And I'm sorry. It seemed relevant...at first.

 

[Devo182]

So…. Any news about nico. You know the player’s thread? Hope we get him. Weather looks perfect finally and money will be offered. Hopefully it’s enough

Should be in tonight. Then onto @frank's cabin to eat filet mignon and lobster and sign the deal.

 

[Mr French]

Man you are just the king of straw men, aren't you? I didn't say I would force anyone to do anything. I was explaining how the draft tended to balance things. Playing off of Dooley's comment that "NSD was just like the NFL draft except that Bama got the first 25 picks", the equivalent of the draft in college ball would be to limit who could take the highest ranked players.

You're basically wanting college teams to have a salary cap, problem and the major difference is Tennessee isn't paying the player whereas the Titans are playing the player. NFL players can earn unlimited supplemental income from NIL endorsements. That's the only way college athletes can earn money and it's unethical to try and govern anyone's earning potential. If boosters drop out of endorsing an athlete so be it but there are millionaire boosters always ready to take their place at the table.

 

[DarthVol1]

 

[SSVol]

You're basically wanting college teams to have a salary cap, problem and the major difference is Tennessee isn't paying the player whereas the Titans are playing the player. NFL players can earn unlimited supplemental income from NIL endorsements. That's the only way college athletes can earn money and it's unethical to try and govern anyone's earning potential. If boosters drop out of endorsing an athlete so be it but there are millionaire boosters always ready to take their place at the table.

I'm. Not. Wanting. A. Change.

 

[Mr French]

I'm. Not. Wanting. A. Change.

I saw you're post about being an overbought market value and I agree that it is. I don't see a correction though because facilities were the arms race at one point and still gets absurd money thrown into it. Now it's a player bidding war and the largest booster bases will win the talent. Tennessee is fortunate because we were #10 in the country and that was 2019. With spyres initiative that allows common fans to contribute I'd say that has grown because not a lot of schools have access to an agency such as that. Obviously, if Heupel wins like we hope that means more money from the common fan and less pressure on the boosters who can focus on the facility side for the program. Complete hypothesis but I'm hopeful that's how it plays out.

 

[SSVol]

You're basically wanting college teams to have a salary cap, problem and the major difference is Tennessee isn't paying the player whereas the Titans are playing the player. NFL players can earn unlimited supplemental income from NIL endorsements. That's the only way college athletes can earn money and it's unethical to try and govern anyone's earning potential. If boosters drop out of endorsing an athlete so be it but there are millionaire boosters always ready to take their place at the table.

Caps and draft orders are there to promote parity, coming from the belief that if everyone has a chance to win, it's healthier for the league as a whole. The direction college ball is going will put certain teams at a permanent advantage (even more so than now), and others at a permanent disadvantage. That's simply the economics. I'm not arguing for anything. Just stating what I perceive the facts to be.

Now, one more time, I'm not proposing a change. At all. I'm just pointing out where this likely leads. Folks complain about how the playoffs is always the same X teams. That's about to become even more true. Probably different teams over time (looking at you TAMU), but the rich will get richer and the poor will get poorer. Not yet sure where Tennessee will end up, but given the constant complaining about how cheap our admin and boosters are, not sure the odds are in our favor. Hopefully the power of the brand and size of the fan base wins out, and we become one of the rich getting richer.

 

[onevol74]

Rabbit hole wins again.

 

[Orange_Crush]

Y'all are trolling me right?

Again, not what I said. I do not believe that a high school junior has established a value that is greater than a 4th year starter who just got drafted, and yet, the numbers being suggested at TAMU (and hinted at for Nico) are well into NFL money. If this is a market, and it is, it would be considered overbought when people are paying more than a fair market value for something. When markets are overbought, they correct themselves. Like an IPO, values sometimes overshoot, and then correct to sustainable levels. I was asking if that might be what we're seeing. That's it. Will it go back down? Don't know. Thought it was an interesting question. Very, very sorry I asked it.

I've already agreed that markets are meant to correct. My reply pointed out the billions of $ in NCAAF. And this is the second time you've attributed NIL to high school juniors. There is no HS junior receiving NIL. They are college students, whose performances are generating billions of $ media industry. You're *claiming* they don't deserve the $ (i.e. "overbought"). I'm stating you may be wrong.

 

[Orange_Crush]

I've already agreed that markets are meant to correct. My reply pointed out the billions of $ in NCAAF. And this is the second time you've attributed NIL to high school juniors. There is no HS junior receiving NIL. They are college students, whose performances are generating billions of $ media industry. You're *claiming* they don't deserve the $ (i.e. "overbought"). I'm stating you may be wrong.

I saw you're post about being an overbought market value and I agree that it is. I don't see a correction though because facilities were the arms race at one point and still gets absurd money thrown into it. Now it's a player bidding war and the largest booster bases will win the talent. Tennessee is fortunate because we were #10 in the country and that was 2019. With spyres initiative that allows common fans to contribute I'd say that has grown because not a lot of schools have access to an agency such as that. Obviously, if Heupel wins like we hope that means more money from the common fan and less pressure on the boosters who can focus on the facility side for the program. Complete hypothesis but I'm hopeful that's how it plays out.

See? I'm not so sure about the "overbought" claim just because it's NCAA vs NFL. Considering media money and exposure, is there really much of a difference aside from fan perception, age and false distinction between pro/amateur?

 

[Mr French]

I've already agreed that markets are meant to correct. My reply pointed out the billions of $ in NCAAF. And this is the second time you've attributed NIL to high school juniors. There is no HS junior receiving NIL. They are college students, whose performances are generating billions of $ media industry. You're *claiming* they don't deserve the $ (i.e. "overbought"). I'm stating you may be wrong.


See? I'm not so sure about the "overbought" claim just because it's NCAA vs NFL. Considering media money and exposure, is there really much of a difference aside from fan perception, age and false distinction between pro/amateur?

I'm saying they do deserve the money, Quinn Ewers was paid millions and did nothing on a college field to deserve that money, didn't generate any viewership or made the industrial complex attached to college athletics any profit for it. I also didn't say anything about high school juniors in my post so you're mixing responses to posters. I also said it's an arms race and I see no correction coming. University boosters are going to throw aggressive money at 5* kids whether they pan out or not. That's not going to stop.

 

[SSVol]

I've already agreed that markets are meant to correct. My reply pointed out the billions of $ in NCAAF. And this is the second time you've attributed NIL to high school juniors. There is no HS junior receiving NIL. They are college students, whose performances are generating billions of $ media industry. You're *claiming* they don't deserve the $ (i.e. "overbought"). I'm stating you may be wrong.

So for reference, the class '23 is currently classified as what in school? The offers are being made to and signed by whom exactly?

Never said anything about what they deserved. Why does everyone insist on putting words in my mouth? My opinion is that the market will have a hard time justifying (committing to) paying more to an unproven junior in high school than a 4th year starter who was just drafted 3rd round. It may well be that college players make more than NFL players over the long term. I would be surprised, but it may be. Good for them. Gonna be pretty weird when they take a pay cut to go pro though. The old "get that money" for 3rd year guys with high draft grades might change.

 

[Orange_Crush]

I'm saying they do deserve the money, Quinn Ewers was paid millions and did nothing on a college field to deserve that money, didn't generate any viewership or made the industrial complex attached to college athletics any profit for it. I also didn't say anything about high school juniors in my post so you're mixing responses to posters. I also said it's an arms race and I see no correction coming. University boosters are going to throw aggressive money at 5* kids whether they pan out or not. That's not going to stop.

Sorry. I directed that at the wrong person. My sincere apologies.

(I messed up the quotes in self-edit.)

 

[Mr French]

Sorry. I directed that at the wrong person. My sincere apologies.

(I messed up the quotes in self-edit.)

All good.