War in Ukraine

#6,952
#6,952
MontyPython said:
No. That's not how it works with potential urban combat / siege of Kyiv. If the Ukrainians are willing to fight to the bitter end, tens of thousands of Russian troops will die.
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We shall see. I would prefer your scenario, but I just don’t think a resistance will last long once Russia unleashes more force this weekend.
 
#6,953
#6,953
volbeast33 said:
I’m not a huge Trump fan but that is how he always handles adversaries…. He has talked up Russia some….. China some…. And also North Korea….Biden talks differently than trump about Russia and right now Russia is over there invading Ukraine……. That matters….. you can see how trump felt about Russia when he plainly told Germany not to do the pipeline deal with Russia…. That was something that also mattered.
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The far left will conveniently forget about this.
 
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#6,954
#6,954
BowlBrother85 said:
None of this explains why Donald Trump declined to hold Russia responsible for the cyber-attack on American businesses from December of 2020, while his own regime was still in power. Trump publicly sided with Putin, against the publicly stated conclusion of his own Secretary of State, Mike Pompeo. That was bizarre.

Why does Donald Trump become so testy and defensive whenever Russia is accused of a cyber-attack against the United States? That doesn't make any sense.


As for this latest incursion into the Ukraine, a former American President should not be praising an authoritarian ruler, following a military attack on a sovereign nation, that is considered to be an ally of the United States.

If Donald Trump wanted to bash the Biden administration? Fine. Have at it.... but Trump should not have described Vladimir Putin's justification for this latest act of Russian aggression as being "genius." Nor should Trump have referred to Putin as "savvy."

It is ridiculous that you are defending this. There is no way in hell that the Republican members of this forum, would defend Bill Clinton, if he did the same thing.
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He knows Harris is weak, that's what he's saying. Putin doesn't attack if Trump is in office
 
#6,955
#6,955
davethevol said:
We shall see. I would prefer your scenario, but I just don’t think a resistance will last long once Russia unleashes more force this weekend.
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Yeah, hard to say for sure. Does the average Ukrainian citizen / soldier go "meeeh F it" or full-on angry and defiant.

I *think* it's the latter. If so, Putin's got problems because he seems to be banking on a quick victory.
 
#6,956
#6,956
BowlBrother85 said:
None of this explains why Donald Trump declined to hold Russia responsible for the cyber-attack on American businesses from December of 2020, while his own regime was still in power. Trump publicly sided with Putin, against the publicly stated conclusion of his own Secretary of State, Mike Pompeo. That was bizarre.

Why does Donald Trump become so testy and defensive whenever Russia is accused of a cyber-attack against the United States? That doesn't make any sense.


As for this latest incursion into the Ukraine, a former American President should not be praising an authoritarian ruler, following a military attack on a sovereign nation, that is considered to be an ally of the United States.

If Donald Trump wanted to bash the Biden administration? Fine. Have at it.... but Trump should not have described Vladimir Putin's justification for this latest act of Russian aggression as being "genius." Nor should Trump have referred to Putin as "savvy."

It is ridiculous that you are defending this. There is no way in hell that the Republican members of this forum, would defend Bill Clinton, if he did the same thing.
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How about you talk about what the actual president of the United States says and does instead of what a man with no more power than you or I says.
 
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#6,957
#6,957
volbeast33 said:
I’m not a huge Trump fan but that is how he always handles adversaries…. He has talked up Russia some….. China some…. And also North Korea….Biden talks differently than trump about Russia and right now Russia is over there invading Ukraine……. That matters….. you can see how trump felt about Russia when he plainly told Germany not to do the pipeline deal with Russia…. That was something that also mattered.
Click to expand...
You could see how Trump felt about Russia when he declined to hold them culpable for the December 2020 cyber-attack against American businesses, against the publicly stated conclusion of his own Secretary of State, Mike Pompeo. He would not even consider the possibility that Russia was responsible... but you want people to believe that Trump has been tough on Russia? That is a crock of bull $hit.

That is not "how he always handles adversaries."

Trump held China responsible for the Coronavirus?

Trump held "Little Rocket Man" responsible for North Korea stepping up their weapons of mass destruction tests.

Why not hold Russia responsible for that massive December 2020 cyber-attack? It did significant and costly damage.
 
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#6,958
#6,958
MontyPython said:
Yeah, hard to say for sure. Does the average Ukrainian citizen / soldier go "meeeh F it" or full-on angry and defiant.

I *think* it's the latter. If so, Putin's got problems because he seems to be banking on a quick victory.
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Oh, he’s definitely banking on it. He needs it to end quickly so the next countries realize they have no chance when he invades. If it’s one thing we’ve learned about his actions, it’s that he’s cold blooded and doesn’t care if he kills everyone in the Ukraine. He’s not worried about civilian casualties in the slightest.
 
#6,961
#6,961
Some 137 Ukrainians, a mixture of soldiers and civilians, died Thursday. Britain's Defense Secretary told his country's media Friday that Russia has lost about 450 military personnel.

Sorry to sound cynical, but that's a really good ratio right there if accurate. If Russia gets bogged down in a protracted guerilla warfare situation, there will be the ashes of scores of dead 20 year-olds being shipped back in boxes to mother Russia.
 
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#6,963
#6,963
davethevol said:
Oh, he’s definitely banking on it. He needs it to end quickly so the next countries realize they have no chance when he invades. If it’s one thing we’ve learned about his actions, it’s that he’s cold blooded and doesn’t care if he kills everyone in the Ukraine. He’s not worried about civilian casualties in the slightest.
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Agree 100% on civilians. Russian doctrine is all-out war unlike our 'clean' warfare. But actually doing it will cost Putin big time.

I disagree on Putin moving on to another country. Certainly not a NATO country and I'd wager not anytime soon.

This war could literally go on for years if the Ukrainians are really fighting for their freedom.
 
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#6,964
#6,964
Lessons from Afghanistan / Russian war for Putin:

23px-Flag_of_the_Soviet_Union.svg.png
Soviet forces:
(Soviet estimate)
26,000 killed including 3,000 officers[42] (other sources)

This was against a non-army "army" of nutty religious zealots. Ukraine has a legitimate US-trained army.

Note the # of helicopters and tanks lost. Expect the same in Ukraine as long as we continue supplying them with weapons.

Putin lost 450 soldiers dead yesterday.

Day 1.
 
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#6,965
#6,965
Sandman 423 said:
How about you talk about what the actual president of the United States says and does instead of what a man with no more power than you or I says.
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I disagree that Trump "has no more power than you or I." At the very least, Donald Trump is a serious contender for the 2024 Republican Party nomination, if he decides to run again. I hate to give Trump credit for anything, but it can't be credibly denied that he is still a significant presence on the American political landscape. His praise of Putin was outrageous. Why do that?
 
#6,966
#6,966
MontyPython said:
Presume Putin's objective is to a quick Ukrainian capitulation.... hoping that Ukrainian troops will roll over and quit. Could happen, but they appear to be fighting hard thus far.

If I'm Zelensky, I go the Kyiv fortress route. Pretty big city - 3M.

Bring as many troops into it into defensive positions. Give civilians the choice to stay or go. Putin would have to either choose urban combat or siege the city. Urban combat would cause the war to go on for months and months, at a minimum. Alternatively, a siege with Russia flattening the city one building at a time with air power / missiles, would create an absolute humanitarian crisis with videos that would emerge of babies and children being blown to bits by Russia. And Russia ground troops would still have to sweep the city - resulting in significant casualties on their side. This could have significant effect to bolster domestic hatred of and resistance to Russian occupation, encourage allies to continue helping Ukraine, and stir internal dissent within Russia itself.

Guerilla warfare is the only way Ukraine can survive in the long run... if there is a long run.
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Agreed. Ukraine needs to concentrate on holding out as long as possible and killing as many Russians as possible. How many dead soldiers will the Russian people tolerate before they say enough and turn on Putin?
 
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#6,967
#6,967
MontyPython said:
Agree 100% on civilians. Russian doctrine is all-out war unlike our 'clean' warfare. But actually doing it will cost Putin big time.

I disagree on Putin moving on to another country. Certainly not a NATO country and I'd wager not anytime soon.

This war could literally go on for years if the Ukrainians are really fighting for their freedom.
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I'm honestly thinking more along these lines. The people of Ukraine (and Russia) are nothing like spoiled Westerners. This a hardened group of bastards that very well may fight until every last one of them is dead.
 
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#6,968
#6,968
Franklin Pierce said:
Report: Biden to Divert Agents from U.S. Southern Border, Send Them to ‘Assist’ with Russia-Ukraine Conflict

President Joe Biden’s administration is looking to divert United States Border Patrol agents from their mission at the U.S.-Mexico border to send them overseas “to assist” those fleeing from Ukraine amidst Russia’s invasion, a new report states.

Even as illegal immigration continues pouring through the nation’s southern border at record levels, Biden hopes to entice Border Patrol agents to sign up voluntarily to aid American citizens, green card-holders, and their immediate relatives fleeing Ukraine into Eastern Europe.

Report: Biden to Divert Agents from U.S. Border, Send Them to Poland
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This cant be real
 
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#6,970
#6,970
volbeast33 said:
I’m not a huge Trump fan but that is how he always handles adversaries…. He has talked up Russia some….. China some…. And also North Korea….Biden talks differently than trump about Russia and right now Russia is over there invading Ukraine……. That matters….. you can see how trump felt about Russia when he plainly told Germany not to do the pipeline deal with Russia…. That was something that also mattered.
Click to expand...
You could see how Trump felt about Russia when he declined to hold them culpable for the December 2020 cyber-attack against American businesses, against the publicly stated conclusion of his own Secretary of State, Mike Pompeo. He would not even consider the possibility that Russia was responsible... but you want people to believe that Trump has been tough on Russia? That is a crock of bull $hit.

That is not "always how he handles adversaries."

1) Trump held China responsible for the Coronavirus.

2) Trump held "Little Rocket Man" responsible for stepping up weapons of mass destruction tests.

Why not hold Russia responsible for that massive December 2020 cyber-attack? It did significant and costly damage.
 
#6,971
#6,971
zeppelin128 said:
Now now, this is entirely 100% the fault of the West. Russia doesn't want NATO forces on their borders.

Don't you be looking at a map showing the borders of the NATO Baltic States!
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Or how crossing Ukraine by the Russians moves them closer to NATO.

Putins actions here justifies any nation wanting to join NATO. And puts the lie to any statement of Russia wanting to be left alone.
 
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#6,972
#6,972
kiddiedoc said:
I'm honestly thinking more along these lines. The people of Ukraine (and Russia) are nothing like spoiled Westerners. This a hardened group of bastards that very well may fight until every last one of them is dead.
Click to expand...

Yeah, both the Russians and the Ukrainians are just tougher people. Stalingrad scenario in the 21st century would absolutely crush Putin and his cronies IMO.
 
#6,974
#6,974
hog88 said:
Agreed. Ukraine needs to concentrate on holding out as long as possible and killing as many Russians as possible. How many dead soldiers will the Russian people tolerate before they say enough and turn on Putin?
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Let’s hope. That would be the ideal scenario.
 
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