War in Ukraine

#4,326
#4,326
volbound1700 said:
It will take them time to incorporate Ukraine.

I do think this is being driven for one of the main reasons that war became inevitable for Germany and Japan; both China and Russia are facing major economic and social problems and the only solution seems to be war. This is why wars start. Both Germany and Japan in 1939 would have faced bankruptcy and regime collapse if they hadn't gone to war.
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Actually, by 1939, Germany was in pretty decent shape economically.
 
#4,327
#4,327
OHvol40 said:
The only assumption that was proven wrong was that they couldn’t be attacked from the Ardennes, though I agree that successful blitzkrieg rendered their defenses obsolete. The French were horribly out of position in hindsight.
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I think the "plan" (as plans go lol) was to shift forces over to the coastal plain if Germany did what they did and use the Ardennes to "protect" their flank.

Well, the Germans did exactly that, but again, the Belgians and Dutch just couldn't stop the invasion quick enough for the French to reposition.

Hence, don't ever bet your defenses on another country that might not be taking the threat as seriously as you are.
 
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#4,328
#4,328
OHvol40 said:
The only assumption that was proven wrong was that they couldn’t be attacked from the Ardennes, though I agree that successful blitzkrieg rendered their defenses obsolete. The French were horribly out of position in hindsight.
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The Maginot Line was rendered useless by a handful of demolition troops. If that isn’t proven wrong, I don’t know what is. Again, the Ardennes were considered impassable because they were operating on the already proven wrong assumption that it would be a repeat of WW1. What little armor they had was scattered among infantry units rendering it useless
 
#4,330
#4,330
landscapingvol said:
The French Army that you keep referencing was made up mostly of conscripted, poorly trained soldiers, raw infantry numbers were irrelevant. The German Army that you keep referencing was far better trained and equipped in 1936 but infinitely more superior by 1940. They weren’t in the same stratosphere as the German military, no one was in 1940
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The original point was about the remilitarization of the Rhineland in 1936. At that time, France could have probably halted it. No the Germans were not better equipped in 1936. The French by all measures in 1936 should have destroyed the Heer.

While the Germans were vastly superior in tactics (no one rates German panzers in 1940 superior to French tanks, but their usage was orders of magnitude superior to the French) we know that as a result of 20/20 hindsight. The Germans themselves expected to win, but not like that!
 
#4,331
#4,331
OHvol40 said:
The only assumption that was proven wrong was that they couldn’t be attacked from the Ardennes, though I agree that successful blitzkrieg rendered their defenses obsolete. The French were horribly out of position in hindsight.
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Most militaries train to fight the last war.
 
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#4,333
#4,333
landscapingvol said:
They spent more on their military in 1936 than any other European power
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Not be argumentative here, but did you actually read what my response was in reference to the economic situation of Germany in 1939? 1936 was not even mentioned.

However, Germany was in far better economic shape in 1936 than 1933. They were pulling out of the depression. There is a school of thought that FDR did little towards getting the US out it, but Herr Hitler certainly did when he invaded Poland.
 
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#4,335
#4,336
#4,336
Burhead said:
Putin is acting emotional in this speech and its crazy. He is going after the very notion that Ukraine is an independent state and should nothing be more than a vassal state of the Russians. Even Ras should be concerned where this speech is going.
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Impossible. Rasputin_Vol and grandvol assured us all that the worries about a Russian invasion are just a figment of Biden's imagination.
 
#4,338
#4,338
Orangeburst said:
Bingo..the French were still in static line WW1 warfare and the Germans said nah...mobilization and mechanized warfare. WW1 was nothing but butchery.
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There is a substantial amount of literature on why the French did not militarize their border with Belgium. One reason has been alluded to here, in that the Ardenne was thought to be impassable by armored forces with any speed. There were also massive political issues. Let's just say the Belgian leadership were not the most practical of people in the matter.

As has been correctly pointed out, in 1940 the French Army, their doctrine and political leadership were no match for Germany. I personally also believe the collapse can be partially blamed on how the massive casualties suffered in WW1 impacted morale.

Percentage wise, if the US had suffered the same ratio of battle deaths to population as France, we would have WW1 memorials to over 4,000,000 dead or roughly ten times WW2. A lot of us would not be around because potential grandfathers and great-grandfathers would be buried in Europe.
 
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#4,339
#4,339
Orangeburst said:
SpryFewAdmiralbutterfly-size_restricted.gif
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Perfect.
 
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#4,340
#4,340
I still think an invasion is less than 50. Rhetoric is rhetoric until it is action. I just dont see this invasion being practical for Russian power. It would bleed them financially and materially for decades, not strengthen them.
 
#4,341
#4,341
GroverCleveland said:
There is a substantial amount of literature on why the French did not militarize their border with Belgium. One reason has been alluded to here, in that the Ardenne was thought to be impassable by armored forces with any speed. There were also massive political issues. Let's just say the Belgian leadership were not the most practical of people in the matter.

As has been correctly pointed out, in 1940 the French Army, their doctrine and political leadership were no match for Germany. I personally also believe the collapse can be partially blamed on how the massive casualties suffered in WW1 impacted morale.

Percentage wise, if the US had suffered the same ratio of battle deaths to population as France, we would have WW1 memorials to over 4,000,000 dead or roughly ten times WW2. A lot of us would not be around because potential grandfathers and great-grandfathers would be buried in Europe.
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The just throwing men into the fray for years, just to gain yards. Incredible. The cusp of changing from horse to mechanical movement, Check out Peter Jackson doc movie They Shall Not Grow Old, if you haven't. The Germans were actually having a football match in England when the war broke. They ate together that evening.
 
#4,342
#4,342
Orangeburst said:
The just throwing men into the fray for years, just to gain yards. Incredible. The cusp of changing from horse to mechanical movement, Check out Peter Jackson doc movie They Shall Not Grow Old, if you haven't. The Germans were actually having a football match in England when the war broke. They ate together that evening.
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It is outstanding; I have seen it twice. I also thought 1917 was the most realistic depiction of WW1 Western Front battlegrounds compared to descriptions I have read.

Currently reading Peter Hart's Gallipoli with Max Hasting's Catastrophe 1914 and a book on Passchendaele up next.
 
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#4,343
#4,343
GroverCleveland said:
It is outstanding; I have seen it twice. I also thought 1917 was the most realistic depiction of WW1 Western Front battlegrounds compared to descriptions I have read.

Currently reading Peter Hart's Gallipoli with Max Hasting's Catastrophe 1914 and a book on Passchendaele up next.
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1917 was really good. I felt like I was watching Dan Carlin’s podcast on WW1 turned into video.
 
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