War in Ukraine

#4,076
#4,076
tvolsfan said:
No, his goals are considerably more nationalistic than that. Why shouldn't Russia be included in NATO? Look at the situation between Greece and Turkey and multiply that by 100.
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That's not an answer. Turkey should be expelled from NATO since they are no longer a secular nation, Russia is still secular and not ruled by religion.
 
#4,077
#4,077
InVOLuntary said:
I absolutely think this is plausible. Mashed potatoehead needs some kind of perceived political win given his failures at everything he's touched with the midterms approaching. He could claim he quelled an invasion.
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Yes, the 100k Russian troops, the tanks, the missiles. The shelling. The statements from the Russians themselves.... its all made up.
 
#4,079
#4,079
hog88 said:
That's not an answer. Turkey should be expelled from NATO since they are no longer a secular nation, Russia is still secular and not ruled by religion.
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Nobody is talking about religion. In any case, Russia's goal for joining NATO would be to further military ambitions, not protect their territory.
 
#4,080
#4,080
tvolsfan said:
Nobody is talking about religion. In any case, Russia's goal for joining NATO would be to further military ambitions, not protect their territory.
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How is that different than current NATO members? Also if Russia elected to join NATO wouldn't they have to comply with the rules for membership?

Yeah, yeah I know none of the other members are made to comply but let's assume we're talking about NATO working as it was intended.
 
#4,082
#4,082
hog88 said:
How is that different than current NATO members? Also if Russia elected to join NATO wouldn't they have to comply with the rules for membership?

Yeah, yeah I know none of the other members are made to comply but let's assume we're talking about NATO working as it was intended.
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Pretty sure Poland isn't planning to occupy Kaliningrad anytime soon. Russia is right now making up stories about attacks on their own territory to justify military expansion, and they clearly have territorial ambitions in multiple NATO member states.
 
#4,083
#4,083
lawgator1 said:
Yes, the 100k Russian troops, the tanks, the missiles. The shelling. The statements from the Russians themselves.... its all made up.
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The Russians have denied that they intend to invade. I have no doubt Putin is trolling Ukraine and the west, that's what he does. The shelling is not by Russia.
 
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#4,084
#4,084
if you are not backing the President and Vice President Harris and the US military at a time of need, when a madman with an arsenal is attacking us and our allies, I would say there is a reason for that. Anyone of sound mind left needs to get off social. There is a real world out there to take care of at home. putin maybe a crazy old man, but russia has been a leader at cyber attacks, brain washing, and creating conflict since the late 90's. Being on social media is not a job. It's an opportunity for exploitation. If you don't have the history or knowledge of which you speak stop amplifying the problem. I have full faith in the United States and her allies, and if we don't end this, the people of Russia might. They have already tried several times. Now is their chance. He cannot fight two fronts.
 
#4,085
#4,085
allvol123 said:
That you used those as an attempt to disparage the country, is quite ridiculous.
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Those statements were predicated not of the country, but of its president, who has indicted his two chief rivals on charges of treason, has confiscated the fortune of one of them, and has shut down opposition media. It's curious that our devotees of "freedom" have nothing to say about any of this.
 
#4,086
#4,086
tvolsfan said:
Pretty sure Poland isn't planning to occupy Kaliningrad anytime soon. Russia is right now making up stories about attacks on their own territory to justify military expansion, and they clearly have territorial ambitions in multiple NATO member states.
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Yes, you are correct but maybe if they chose to join NATO none of this would be happening?
 
#4,087
#4,087
I dont trust our own "intelligence" services worth a damn, so all of this could be a wag the dog for Biden's benefit, but one thing I have a hard time with. If I was Putin, why wouldnt I invade Ukraine right now? He has to look at our own weak situation and see Biden has no support in his own country. The EU then will see that and think eh, we will gladly roll over and be Putin's b**ch to suck on his natural gas pipe. Especially since Biden got rid of our ability to supply them almost immediately in his presidency.

If I am Putin and calculating what price Russia (much less Putin himself) will likely pay to take over (at least a part of) Ukraine vs the benefits, I have to think the calculation says go for it. The only thought that might hold him back is our military complex desire to have a decent war to sell more stuff now that Afghanistan is over. He knows the bloodthirsty chicken hawks there hold a lot of sway. I would think his goal is a lighting strike, causing near immediate collapse and enough to get Ukraine within 30 days at most. I think he has no desire to go to war with the West but would be willing to risk a limited engagement on his home turf. Our generals are idiots if they think we can compete with Russia within the black sea in a conventional engagement.

Maybe what will work is he invades and then the chickenhawks sell Poland belurus and the rest a ton of new weapons.
 
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#4,088
#4,088
IluvdoubleD's said:
if you are not backing the President and Vice President Harris and the US military at a time of need, when a madman with an arsenal is attacking us and our allies, I would say there is a reason for that. Anyone of sound mind left needs to get off social. There is a real world out there to take care of at home. putin maybe a crazy old man, but russia has been a leader at cyber attacks, brain washing, and creating conflict since the late 90's. Being on social media is not a job. It's an opportunity for exploitation. If you don't have the history or knowledge of which you speak stop amplifying the problem. I have full faith in the United States and her allies, and if we don't end this, the people of Russia might. They have already tried several times. Now is their chance. He cannot fight two fronts.
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When are you signing up?
 
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#4,089
#4,089
DuckInAPen said:
Those statements were predicated not of the country, but of its president, who has indicted his two chief rivals on charges of treason, has confiscated the fortune of one of them, and has shut down opposition media. It's curious that our devotees of "freedom" have nothing to say about any of this.
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Who elected him?

Then go with that…..not “he supports legalized prostitution and gambling”.
 
#4,090
#4,090
IluvdoubleD's said:
if you are not backing the President and Vice President Harris and the US military at a time of need, when a madman with an arsenal is attacking us and our allies, I would say there is a reason for that. Anyone of sound mind left needs to get off social. There is a real world out there to take care of at home. putin maybe a crazy old man, but russia has been a leader at cyber attacks, brain washing, and creating conflict since the late 90's. Being on social media is not a job. It's an opportunity for exploitation. If you don't have the history or knowledge of which you speak stop amplifying the problem. I have full faith in the United States and her allies, and if we don't end this, the people of Russia might. They have already tried several times. Now is their chance. He cannot fight two fronts.
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War monger ideals served on a platter of fear with a side of admonishment for our role in the situation through social media.

It's well past the time to ween our allies off Uncle Sam's teet.
 
#4,095
#4,095
DuckInAPen said:
I did "go with that" -- twice. And I do find his advocacy of legalized prostitution a discredit to him (and to all others who advocate it).
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And then followed it with this nonsense.

It isn’t a discredit at all and quite a ridiculous notion to try to make it be.
 
#4,096
#4,096
tvolsfan said:
Pretty sure Poland isn't planning to occupy Kaliningrad anytime soon. Russia is right now making up stories about attacks on their own territory to justify military expansion, and they clearly have territorial ambitions in multiple NATO member states.
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You sure didn't seem that concerned when Obama let Russia annex the Crimea...

Or when he pulled the missile defense system from East Europe...

Or when Russia shot down a civilian airliner...

Or when Russia started amassing forces at the border of Ukraine when Trump was in office...

Oh wait, that last one never happened since Russia didn't want to play FA/FO (**** Around and Find Out) with Trump. You see, they know weakness when they see it and they know Biden isn't going to do a thing if they do go in.
 
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#4,097
#4,097
From NPR (Feb 1, 2022): highlighted by me.
According to Ukraine's minister of foreign affairs, Dmytro Kuleba
"If Russia succeeds here in Ukraine, that will send a clear message to everyone who wants to rewrite rules on which the world is based, that this is possible," he told NPR. "That the United States and the democratic coalition led by the United States are incapable to maintain the current world order. That they are weak. And if you behave in a bold, aggressive way, you will eventually succeed."
"So, for all Americans, all I can say is that Ukraine is fighting this war for eight years. We have never requested American boots here on the ground. We always said we are fighting this war. This is our land. These are our people.
"We don't need your boots on the ground, but help us to fight this war diplomatically, militarily. And we will defend the current world order led by the United States and other democratic countries in this part of the world."
 
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