Who are we? Really?

#52
#52
I know what he meant and I disagree. Not all down periods are equal.

Yes, we all go through them, but the one Tennessee is experiencing is different. A genuine comparison would be 1989-1999 at LSU.

But, the period of time people are talking about with Alabama just doesn't compare. And Florida since 2010 doesn't compare either
No, you're right.

FFlorida from 1906 to 1989 is more like the level of bad Tennessee has been for the past decade. Number of national titles over those 80-something years? 0. Conference titles? 0. Division titles? 0. Almost had one somewhere in there, but got caught cheating and had it denied.

You know, abysmal. :)

Florida, a footnote for most of the history of college football. Thank Tennessee boy Spurrier for getting your sad sack program onto the map.

You're right, that's a more accurate comparison.
 
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#56
#56
No, you're right.

FFlorida from 1906 to 1989 is more like the level of bad Tennessee has been for the past decade. Number of national titles over those 80-something years? 0. Conference titles? 0. Division titles? 0. Almost had one somewhere in there, but got caught cheating and had it denied.

You know, abysmal. :)

Florida, a footnote for most of the history of college football. Thank Tennessee boy Spurrier for getting your sad sack program onto the map.

You're right, that's a more accurate comparison.

From 1906-1989, Florida was 26th nationally in wins. Since 2008, Tennessee is 72nd nationally in wins.

But, I get the larger overall point. But, be careful with that argument.

Because this is where I upset everyone on this board. IMO, there are distinctive eras in college football and also distinctive changes to football programs.

Syracuse is the 22nd winningest program all-time. They are below .500 since integration (1970). So, who are they? Really?

Florida State is the 74th winningest program of all-time. They are 9th since integration. So, who are they? Really?

Nebraska is the 8th winningest program of all-time. They are 61st since joining the Big 10. So, who are they? Really?

Arkansas is the 24th winningest program of all-time. They are 56th since joining the SEC. So, who are they? Really?

Tennessee is the 9th winningest program of all-time. Tennessee is the 18th winningest program since 1970 (integration) behind (within the league) Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Auburn and LSU. In that time, they are a combined 53 games below .500 against those schools with a losing record against all of them. So, who are they? Really?
 
#57
#57
Is UT really supposed to be an elite football program? We all seem to think we should be an elite program because of our fan base, our resources, our stadium and the revenue that comes in. Some of us who saw the 90s first hand, myself included, think that’s what we are supposed to be. I would say we were elite from the 30s through the early 50s with Neyland but it was a different game then. In the modern era it has been consistent peaks and valleys. Late 50s to mid 60s we were not good at all. Late 60s to early 70s we were great. Mid 70s to early 80s bad again. Mid 80s to mid 2000s - pretty good and our best post Neyland run followed by our worst losing stretch in our history. Half of our fans think we should fire our coach every 3 years because we aren’t elite. The other half think we need to be realistic and patient with our coach because we are a dumpster fire and will never have the same talent as the big 3. So who are we? Really? Are we supposed to be a powerhouse or are we really a slightly above average program who has a lot of peaks and valleys?

We are the last game we played and the next game we play.
 
#58
#58
What we were in the past has little or nothing to who we are today! Let's watch and see if Coach Heupel can bring us back to the front.
 
#59
#59
No, you're right.

FFlorida from 1906 to 1989 is more like the level of bad Tennessee has been for the past decade. Number of national titles over those 80-something years? 0. Conference titles? 0. Division titles? 0. Almost had one somewhere in there, but got caught cheating and had it denied.

You know, abysmal. :)

Florida, a footnote for most of the history of college football. Thank Tennessee boy Spurrier for getting your sad sack program onto the map.

You're right, that's a more accurate comparison.
oooh-john-cena.gif
😂
 
#61
#61
Tennessee Football, Historical Overview by Decade:

1891-1899, 18-13, tied for 55th in wins for the decade.

I-A Wins 1891-1899

1900-1909, 38-38-10, tied for 64th in wins for the decade.

I-A Wins 1900-1909

1910-19, 40-23-7, tied for 65th in wins for the decade.

I-A Wins 1910-1919

1920-29, 68-18-6, tied for 8th in wins for the decade.

I-A Wins 1920-1929

1930-39, 79-17-5, tied for 2nd in wins for the decade.

I-A Wins 1930-1939

1940-49, 67-19-5, 8th in wins for the decade.

I-A Wins 1940-1949

1950-59, 72-31-4, tied for 6th for the decade.

I-A Wins 1950-1959

1960-69, 67-32-6, 19th in wins for the decade.

I-A Wins 1960-1969

1970-79, 75-39-3, tied for 18th in wins for the decade.

I-A Wins 1970-1979

1980-89, 77-37-5, tied for 18th for the decade.

I-A Wins 1980-1989

1990-99, 99-22-2, 4th in wins for the decade.

I-A Wins 1990-1999

2000-09, 83-44, tied for 20th for the decade.
I-A Wins 2000-2009

2010-19, 63-62, tied for 67th for the decade.

I-A Wins 2010-2019

2020-21, 10-13, tied for 72nd for the decade so far.

I-A Wins 2020-2021

So, cliff notes version:

mediocre to bad, 1891 thru 1910's
elite, 1920's thru 1950's
solid/good, 1960's thru 1980's
elite again, 1990's
solid/good, 2000's
mediocre to bad, 2010 to Present.

Bottom line is throughout history we have generally been solid/good or elite, but have found it harder to be elite since the sport integrated and recruiting dynamics shifted in favor of some of the teams we play. Our 3 big rivals, Alabama, Georgia and Florida are all top 10 in wins the last 60 and 50 seasons, which coincide with the post-integration era:

I-A Wins 1962-2021

I-A Wins 1972-2021

Very interesting. Thanks for sharing. Bottom line is thanks to Neyland from 1920s to early 50s we are a top 10 all team (top 12? Whatever). Dickey from 65-69 and his players in early 70s and Johnny /Phil from 89-01 also contributed to our overall ranking.
 
#62
#62
I'm not sure UGA should be considered in our league overall. They are great right now but other than Alabama, I believe UT is the most decorated SEC program over the whole history of the game.

Agree. I don’t think Georgia had the 120 year history of winning UT has.
 
#64
#64
From 1906-1989, Florida was 26th nationally in wins. Since 2008, Tennessee is 72nd nationally in wins.

But, I get the larger overall point. But, be careful with that argument.

Because this is where I upset everyone on this board. IMO, there are distinctive eras in college football and also distinctive changes to football programs.

Syracuse is the 22nd winningest program all-time. They are below .500 since integration (1970). So, who are they? Really?

Florida State is the 74th winningest program of all-time. They are 9th since integration. So, who are they? Really?

Nebraska is the 8th winningest program of all-time. They are 61st since joining the Big 10. So, who are they? Really?

Arkansas is the 24th winningest program of all-time. They are 56th since joining the SEC. So, who are they? Really?

Tennessee is the 9th winningest program of all-time. Tennessee is the 18th winningest program since 1970 (integration) behind (within the league) Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Auburn and LSU. In that time, they are a combined 53 games below .500 against those schools with a losing record against all of them. So, who are they? Really?


Is now a good time for 0-12?
 
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#65
#65
Agree. I don’t think Georgia had the 120 year history of winning UT has.
I was looking at it by decade in the links to my post earlier and it's hard to get closer than UT and UGA are right now historically. UT has 3 more wins total in 130 years. UT has had a better record than UGA in 6 decades (1900's, 1920's, 1930's, 1950's, 1960's and 1990's) and UGA has had a better record than UT in 6 decades (1890's, 1910's, 1940's, 1980's, 2000's and 2010's) and the two programs actually tied in overall wins in the 1970's. UGA is ahead in the 2020's but we've got a ways to go there.
 
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#66
#66
You know we were cheated in a lot of those losses right? And we had JG and Pruitt for a lot of those losses too. We’d have been neck and neck with Bama’s downtime if the SEC wasn’t out to get us.

Delusional. We are mediocre most years with spikes of good to great years occasionally. One of earlier posters was right. We were at our best from 30s to 50s. That was a hell of a long time ago. Doesn’t mean you can’t pull for the vols to be good and get better.
 
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#67
#67
From 1906-1989, Florida was 26th nationally in wins. Since 2008, Tennessee is 72nd nationally in wins.

But, I get the larger overall point. But, be careful with that argument.

Because this is where I upset everyone on this board. IMO, there are distinctive eras in college football and also distinctive changes to football programs.

Syracuse is the 22nd winningest program all-time. They are below .500 since integration (1970). So, who are they? Really?

Florida State is the 74th winningest program of all-time. They are 9th since integration. So, who are they? Really?

Nebraska is the 8th winningest program of all-time. They are 61st since joining the Big 10. So, who are they? Really?

Arkansas is the 24th winningest program of all-time. They are 56th since joining the SEC. So, who are they? Really?

Tennessee is the 9th winningest program of all-time. Tennessee is the 18th winningest program since 1970 (integration) behind (within the league) Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Auburn and LSU. In that time, they are a combined 53 games below .500 against those schools with a losing record against all of them. So, who are they? Really?

I can't really argue that. I've never been big on all time wins or even all time championships. Cool stat but nobody plays the same schedule and if you can just claim championships it just leaves the door open for debate (Bama) and that's not even including shared titles (not possible to have 2 winners) . Tennessee claims 6 but technically only 98 is outright. Ap voted before the sugar bowl loss in 51. Multiple losses in 67 and found the 1 poll that had them at #1. Could claim others but, again, it's up to interpretation. Integration is good starting point, and where I personally start since it's such a huge game changer , but like you said, football changes. Lsu never was a juggernaut but since this century they have 3 championships and played for another. What happened even 20 years means little today as it's constantly changing. Playoffs is a huge game changer and IMO makes it harder to win one having to beat 2 top 4 teams back to back. NIL will usher in a new change.
 
#69
#69
I am old enough to remember the ups and downs of each and every team in the SEC. I'm also old enough to remember the teams that got the most TV exposure in the 60's and 70's. As one poster mentioned, several of the schools on his list were on every Saturday, with the exception of Miami. Miami is a Johnny come lately, relatively speaking. Recruiting is a whole 'nother animal now than what is was back then, and with NIL coming along, recruiting has changed again in a dramatic fashion. Schools now are put at an advantage or disadvantage, depending on how the NIL is set up. It seems the NCAA gave a few ground rules to go by, but they pretty much left it up to the legislature in each state to write their own policy. I haven't read, nor will I read, the NIL policies of 50 states, but the less restrictive ones will have a very real recruiting advantage. I honestly think it's gonna ruin college athletics in the future. Gone are the days when a kid grew up being a fan of a particular school, and if they had an opportunity to go there to play, it meant something to them. Now it's who can give them the best money deal.
Sad but true. Money corrupts. It has always been there under the surface but now the floodgates are open
 
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#70
#70
I am not sure how the NIL regs are written, but the flip side of the $$$ now is long term security. For the players who will not be making millions from NIL or playing on Sunday, there needs to be a promise of long term income. The really good programs make sure that the faithful players have a job after college whether it be at a car dealership, a store franchise, or an internship at a booster’s company. I don’t know if it can be a written guarantee or if it has to just be a spoken understanding, but if you come to UT, play your 4 years without going into the portal, and keep your nose clean, you will not go hungry or broke if you don’t move on to the next level. THAT will get you recruits and that will get the moms and dads on your side when it is approaching time to sign on the dotted line. VFL should be a 2 way commitment and we should take care of those who commit to and stay with us
 
#71
#71
I am not sure how the NIL regs are written, but the flip side of the $$$ now is long term security. For the players who will not be making millions from NIL or playing on Sunday, there needs to be a promise of long term income. The really good programs make sure that the faithful players have a job after college whether it be at a car dealership, a store franchise, or an internship at a booster’s company. I don’t know if it can be a written guarantee or if it has to just be a spoken understanding, but if you come to UT, play your 4 years without going into the portal, and keep your nose clean, you will not go hungry or broke if you don’t move on to the next level. THAT will get you recruits and that will get the moms and dads on your side when it is approaching time to sign on the dotted line.
And that also should be available for players who suffer a career ending injury. VOLS should be, more than any other program, a family. We take care of our own.
 
#72
#72
I can't really argue that. I've never been big on all time wins or even all time championships. Cool stat but nobody plays the same schedule and if you can just claim championships it just leaves the door open for debate (Bama) and that's not even including shared titles (not possible to have 2 winners) . Tennessee claims 6 but technically only 98 is outright. Ap voted before the sugar bowl loss in 51. Multiple losses in 67 and found the 1 poll that had them at #1. Could claim others but, again, it's up to interpretation. Integration is good starting point, and where I personally start since it's such a huge game changer , but like you said, football changes. Lsu never was a juggernaut but since this century they have 3 championships and played for another. What happened even 20 years means little today as it's constantly changing. Playoffs is a huge game changer and IMO makes it harder to win one having to beat 2 top 4 teams back to back. NIL will usher in a new change.
Bama claims them in the 22nd century
 

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