Who are we? Really?

[VolsnRavens]

Is UT really supposed to be an elite football program? We all seem to think we should be an elite program because of our fan base, our resources, our stadium and the revenue that comes in. Some of us who saw the 90s first hand, myself included, think that’s what we are supposed to be. I would say we were elite from the 30s through the early 50s with Neyland but it was a different game then. In the modern era it has been consistent peaks and valleys. Late 50s to mid 60s we were not good at all. Late 60s to early 70s we were great. Mid 70s to early 80s bad again. Mid 80s to mid 2000s - pretty good and our best post Neyland run followed by our worst losing stretch in our history. Half of our fans think we should fire our coach every 3 years because we aren’t elite. The other half think we need to be realistic and patient with our coach because we are a dumpster fire and will never have the same talent as the big 3. So who are we? Really? Are we supposed to be a powerhouse or are we really a slightly above average program who has a lot of peaks and valleys?

 

[Weezer]

My belief is you all are just figments of my demented imagination. If something happens to me, the rest of you stop existing.

 

[Delmar]

This ain’t rocket science. Our demise is the direct result of inept administration and their poor choices of 4 coaches in a row. I don’t care who you are, that will set any program back. Kiffin might have been OK but we caught him while he had a wandering eye and he couldn’t resist going back to SoCal. But then we proceeded to pick Doofus, Sgt. Carter and Beldar Cornbread. Simply 3 choices as bad as you could make. Maybe we’ve righted the ship with Heupel and maybe not. Too soon to tell. But UT is a historically top program and can be again. Hire competent people and get out of their way. That’s usually how successful businesses are built.

 

[overseasorange2]

Thanks. I feel so much better now. Dang Gator posters.

It's cyclic, but damn Bama's hill sure has been high for the last decade. Is their valley near? I hope......

 

[unfrozencvmanvol]

I have been a college football fan since about 1970. Moved around to different states growing up and then was in the military for 20 years and then moved to TN in 1991. Until I moved to TN, never heard anyone say UT was an elite program. It was always Southern Cal, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Ohio State, Norte Dame, Miami, Penn State. I tend to root for the underdog so I remember pulling for them the couple times I saw them on TV playing Alabama. I met a few people from TN when I was in the military and they never mentioned UT football but some would mention the Lady Vols basketball.
Never even heard on General Neyland until I moved here.
I guess maybe TN was consider “elite” at one time. In the last 50 years they have had flashes of beingvery good but I think the only ones that think of UT currently being elite are die hard UT fans.
I think there is a lot of support for the program so I am sure they can be very good again and who knows, maybe someday be elite again.

At one time I lived in Indiana when Bobby Knight was coached there (he even helped my uncle once who had car problems on a county road near IU). Indiana was considered elite because as coach Branch McCrakin won 2 or 3 NC and then they got Knight. Die hard IU fans still consider themselves an elite basketball program but blame the administration for going cheap on basketball hires. They remind me of the UT die hard football fans. Unlike IU, I think UT is on the right track to make it bac/m.

I remember Branch McCracken, that was Big Earn McCracken's dad, right?



"There comes a time when every bowler has to face the music Roy, and today...that bowler is you."

--- Big Earn McCracken, 1996.

 

[ZippyMorocco]

UT has to recruit nationally to be successful. UGA and UF don't, although UGA cherry picks nationally. It's a chicken or egg deal. Do you have to be successful before you can recruit elite players nationally, or can you recruit elite players to become successful?

 

[bigorangepoppa]

I am old enough to remember the ups and downs of each and every team in the SEC. I'm also old enough to remember the teams that got the most TV exposure in the 60's and 70's. As one poster mentioned, several of the schools on his list were on every Saturday, with the exception of Miami. Miami is a Johnny come lately, relatively speaking. Recruiting is a whole 'nother animal now than what is was back then, and with NIL coming along, recruiting has changed again in a dramatic fashion. Schools now are put at an advantage or disadvantage, depending on how the NIL is set up. It seems the NCAA gave a few ground rules to go by, but they pretty much left it up to the legislature in each state to write their own policy. I haven't read, nor will I read, the NIL policies of 50 states, but the less restrictive ones will have a very real recruiting advantage. I honestly think it's gonna ruin college athletics in the future. Gone are the days when a kid grew up being a fan of a particular school, and if they had an opportunity to go there to play, it meant something to them. Now it's who can give them the best money deal.

 

[OrangeBeachVol]

I believe if you have lived in several different states in your lifetime. like myself and several other posters here, you see the TN program in a different light than those who have grown up in the TN footprint. In the 90's they were looked upon as an elite program but were still not recognized in the O. State, OK, ND, SC group. That's the sports TV media propaganda driven images. TN, even in the 90', was not a high tv draw outside SEC territory.

 

[ru4real-really?]

Is UT really supposed to be an elite football program? We all seem to think we should be an elite program because of our fan base, our resources, our stadium and the revenue that comes in. Some of us who saw the 90s first hand, myself included, think that’s what we are supposed to be. I would say we were elite from the 30s through the early 50s with Neyland but it was a different game then. In the modern era it has been consistent peaks and valleys. Late 50s to mid 60s we were not good at all. Late 60s to early 70s we were great. Mid 70s to early 80s bad again. Mid 80s to mid 2000s - pretty good and our best post Neyland run followed by our worst losing stretch in our history. Half of our fans think we should fire our coach every 3 years because we aren’t elite. The other half think we need to be realistic and patient with our coach because we are a dumpster fire and will never have the same talent as the big 3. So who are we? Really? Are we supposed to be a powerhouse or are we really a slightly above average program who has a lot of peaks and valleys?

You have an entirely different perspective when you have lived through what you have outlined above. You might add as a last question to your above analysis "Am I just too young and will the answer come with age and maturity?

 

[sunnyvol79]

Do remember Bama was god awful (even worse than our blunders) from 1993- 2008. Great football programs go through ups and downs its the nature of the ever changing landscape of college football.

Bama won a national title in 1992 and two sec titles during that time frame along with 6 seasons of 10 plus wins going 13-0 in 1992, 12-1 in 1994 and 10-3 in 1996. Then 10-3 in 1999 and 10-3 in 2002 and 10-2 in 2005. Even during their worst stretch before Saban arrived they were no where near as bad as our run of futility from 2007 on. Since 2007 we have exactly one 10 win and 8 losing seasons so I would say our worst stretch is way worse than Bama’s and of course along with losing the last 15 games to them. We have been a very bad football program post 2005

 

[TennesseeTarheel]

 

[Volizona]

How much did Peyton playing for UT make the general public aware of our program? Had he not played for UT perhaps nobody would still think of us as a big time program any more. Everyone recognizes Peyton and most know that he played at Tennessee so I think that has created a bit of awareness of the type of program we have even though we have not been very good.

 

[PlanetVolunteer]

Is UT really supposed to be an elite football program? We all seem to think we should be an elite program because of our fan base, our resources, our stadium and the revenue that comes in. Some of us who saw the 90s first hand, myself included, think that’s what we are supposed to be. I would say we were elite from the 30s through the early 50s with Neyland but it was a different game then. In the modern era it has been consistent peaks and valleys. Late 50s to mid 60s we were not good at all. Late 60s to early 70s we were great. Mid 70s to early 80s bad again. Mid 80s to mid 2000s - pretty good and our best post Neyland run followed by our worst losing stretch in our history. Half of our fans think we should fire our coach every 3 years because we aren’t elite. The other half think we need to be realistic and patient with our coach because we are a dumpster fire and will never have the same talent as the big 3. So who are we? Really? Are we supposed to be a powerhouse or are we really a slightly above average program who has a lot of peaks and valleys?

Yes we are suppose to be an elite football program because up until the last 15 seasons we were. 100 years worth of being a top 10 program. Nothing about our success was above average. Hardly any schools can say they had it better.

To say we are a slightly above average program with peaks and valleys is dumb. It's like saying "oh well we didn't dominate literally every single year we existed so we aren't a blue blood"

Top ten in wins does not mean we had a lot of peaks and valleys.

Even before Neyland we had a conference title and multiple undefeated seasons. Neyland dominated from the mid 20's to the early 50's and it would have been more dominant if he didn't have to leave for military reasons.

Late 50's we had great years with Johnny Majors. Half the 60's we dominated. Early 70's was great. From 84 to 89 was quite dominate. The entire 90's. Even the 2000's was really good. Ranked almost the entire time. Went to 3 SEC titles and was a game away from the national title in 01.

In the past, even if we weren't dominating we still had decent winning seasons where we went to bowl games and competed. Our recent struggles are literally the only time we've had multiple truly bad teams.

Our administration turned gold into horse crap.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

We are what our record says we are:

-- the 9th-winningest football program in the Power 5
-- the 2nd-winningest team in the SEC (and as recently as 2008, we were still the #1 winningest in the league)

Yes, those statements both remain true, even after this horrible past decade and a half we've had. That's how good we are in total, we can take a hit like 2008 to 2020, and still be among the top 2 in the best conference in college football, and top 10 nationally.

It comes and goes, of course. We're not always up. Sometimes we're down. We are currently at (hopefully) the tail end of arguably our worst down period ever. But this, what you've known for the past decade or so, this is not the norm. It is an anomaly. Champions and winners, that's the norm. That's who we are most of the time.

We'll get back where we belong. Hopefully soon. Really soon.

Go Vols!

 

[vol94]

What?

From 1993-2007, Alabama was 113-71-1 with one SEC title and 4 appearances in the SEC title game. The worst record they had against anyone was 4-10-1 to Tennessee. the worst record against anyone in the division was Auburn and they were 5-10. Record vs the SEC was 68-55-1

From 2008-Present, Tennessee is 85-88 with no SEC titles or SEC title game appearances. Worst record against anyone is 0-14 vs. Alabama. Worst record within the division is 1-13 vs. Florida. Record vs. the SEC is 40-74.

I think you know what he meant. Bama wasn’t elite after their 1992 title. There was a downward spiral two or so yrs after the 92 title. Stalling was shown the door and UT started their own streak. I’m not looking up their records on the net but recall Bama unhappy fans until Sabam’s arrival, as had immediate success.

Bama also had a blunder of coaching hires, include the coach (Price?) from wash st who went to an adult establishment and got so hammered he couldn’t recall the prior nights events, hence he was fired. Shuler wasn’t a good coach, nor was Dubose.
As far as UT, idk if we will make it back to where we were in the 90’s. I would say FL has a better chance than us @ this point due to recruiting as the state of Florida is loaded.

 

[vol94]

I think you know what he meant. Bama wasn’t elite after their 1992 title. There was a downward spiral two or so yrs after the 92 title. Stalling was shown the door and UT started their own streak. I’m not looking up their records on the net but recall Bama unhappy fans until Sabam’s arrival, as had immediate success.

Bama also had a blunder of coaching hires, include the coach (Price?) from wash st who went to an adult establishment and got so hammered he couldn’t recall the prior nights events, hence he was fired. Shula wasn’t a good coach, nor was Dubose.
As far as UT, idk if we will make it back to where we were in the 90’s. I would say FL has a better chance than us @ this point due to recruiting as the state of Florida is loaded.

Edit- meant Shula.

 

[vol94]

I think you know what he meant. Bama wasn’t elite after their 1992 title. There was a downward spiral two or so yrs after the 92 title. Stalling was shown the door and UT started their own streak. I’m not looking up their records on the net but recall Bama unhappy fans until Sabam’s arrival, as had immediate success.

Bama also had a blunder of coaching hires, include the coach (Price?) from wash st who went to an adult establishment and got so hammered he couldn’t recall the prior nights events, hence he was fired. Shula wasn’t a good coach, nor was Dubose.
As far as UT, idk if we will make it back to where we were in the 90’s. I would say FL has a better chance than us @ this point due to recruiting as the state of Florida is loaded.

 

[NEO]

We were an elite program that everyone respected until our college leaders decided athletics was nothing more than an expense and used it to raise money for the academics side only. They also realized the fans would show up no matter what so the product didn’t matter.

I only think this changed back recently to were winning actually mattered and only mattered because the current fans were beginning to no longer care and the new fans were picking other teams to root for. Basically they saw they had bled the cash cow dry and needed a new cow. I think that is the only reason Danny White was hired.

 

[unfrozencvmanvol]

Tennessee Football, Historical Overview by Decade:

1891-1899, 18-13, tied for 55th in wins for the decade.

I-A Wins 1891-1899

1900-1909, 38-38-10, tied for 64th in wins for the decade.

I-A Wins 1900-1909

1910-19, 40-23-7, tied for 65th in wins for the decade.

I-A Wins 1910-1919

1920-29, 68-18-6, tied for 8th in wins for the decade.

I-A Wins 1920-1929

1930-39, 79-17-5, tied for 2nd in wins for the decade.

I-A Wins 1930-1939

1940-49, 67-19-5, 8th in wins for the decade.

I-A Wins 1940-1949

1950-59, 72-31-4, tied for 6th for the decade.

I-A Wins 1950-1959

1960-69, 67-32-6, 19th in wins for the decade.

I-A Wins 1960-1969

1970-79, 75-39-3, tied for 18th in wins for the decade.

I-A Wins 1970-1979

1980-89, 77-37-5, tied for 18th for the decade.

I-A Wins 1980-1989

1990-99, 99-22-2, 4th in wins for the decade.

I-A Wins 1990-1999

2000-09, 83-44, tied for 20th for the decade.
I-A Wins 2000-2009

2010-19, 63-62, tied for 67th for the decade.

I-A Wins 2010-2019

2020-21, 10-13, tied for 72nd for the decade so far.

I-A Wins 2020-2021

So, cliff notes version:

mediocre to bad, 1891 thru 1910's
elite, 1920's thru 1950's
solid/good, 1960's thru 1980's
elite again, 1990's
solid/good, 2000's
mediocre to bad, 2010 to Present.

Bottom line is throughout history we have generally been solid/good or elite, but have found it harder to be elite since the sport integrated and recruiting dynamics shifted in favor of some of the teams we play. Our 3 big rivals, Alabama, Georgia and Florida are all top 10 in wins the last 60 and 50 seasons, which coincide with the post-integration era:

I-A Wins 1962-2021

I-A Wins 1972-2021

 

[unfrozencvmanvol]

We are what our record says we are:

-- the 9th-winningest football program in the Power 5
-- the 2nd-winningest team in the SEC (and as recently as 2008, we were still the #1 winningest in the league)

Yes, those statements both remain true, even after this horrible past decade and a half we've had. That's how good we are in total, we can take a hit like 2008 to 2020, and still be among the top 2 in the best conference in college football, and top 10 nationally.

It comes and goes, of course. We're not always up. Sometimes we're down. We are currently at (hopefully) the tail end of arguably our worst down period ever. But this, what you've known for the past decade or so, this is not the norm. It is an anomaly. Champions and winners, that's the norm. That's who we are most of the time.

We'll get back where we belong. Hopefully soon. Really soon.

Go Vols!

UGA's probably going to pass us in all time wins next year and become 2nd in the conference. They are only 3 games behind us, hopefully we can stay even with Southern Cal or pass them to remain in the Top 10 overall.

 

[LordBolton]

What do you mean by “the big three”. If Florida is one of those right now for you, I understand, but they haven’t been good lately either. We’ve just been worse and have them in our heads.

I'm not sure UGA should be considered in our league overall. They are great right now but other than Alabama, I believe UT is the most decorated SEC program over the whole history of the game.

 

[Volsfannn]

What do you mean by “the big three”. If Florida is one of those right now for you, I understand, but they haven’t been good lately either. We’ve just been worse and have them in our heads.

In our heads?

 

[horde of llamas]

I had to pour 3 fingers of Woodford Rye after reading this.

You, sir, will answer to my internist.

Three fingers, that has got to be worth half a bottle of the stuff

 

[99gator]

I think you know what he meant. Bama wasn’t elite after their 1992 title. There was a downward spiral two or so yrs after the 92 title. Stalling was shown the door and UT started their own streak. I’m not looking up their records on the net but recall Bama unhappy fans until Sabam’s arrival, as had immediate success.

Bama also had a blunder of coaching hires, include the coach (Price?) from wash st who went to an adult establishment and got so hammered he couldn’t recall the prior nights events, hence he was fired. Shuler wasn’t a good coach, nor was Dubose.
As far as UT, idk if we will make it back to where we were in the 90’s. I would say FL has a better chance than us @ this point due to recruiting as the state of Florida is loaded.

I know what he meant and I disagree. Not all down periods are equal.

Yes, we all go through them, but the one Tennessee is experiencing is different. A genuine comparison would be 1989-1999 at LSU.

But, the period of time people are talking about with Alabama just doesn't compare. And Florida since 2010 doesn't compare either

 

[unfrozencvmanvol]

I'm not sure UGA should be considered in our league overall. They are great right now but other than Alabama, I believe UT is the most decorated SEC program over the whole history of the game.

We have 856 all time wins, UGA has 853. We both have 13 SEC championships. We claim more natties, but they have 2 in the last 50 years and we have 1. We trail them 23-26-2 in the all-time series. The two programs are pretty close, they are definitely in our league.