To Protect and to Serve II

#14,054
#14,054
I can't link the video but wanted to get others thoughts on the video of the Metro Nashville Police officer involved shooting yesterday.

IMO this video clears police, classic suicide by cop situation. Officers did what they could to de escalate. The Mt Juliet officer in particular did everything he could IMO to avoid the outcome.
 
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#14,055
#14,055
KB5252 said:
I can't link the video but wanted to get others thoughts on the video of the Metro Nashville Police officer involved shooting yesterday.

IMO this video clears police, classic suicide by cop situation. Officers did what they could to de escalate. The Mt Juliet officer in particular did everything he could IMO to avoid the outcome.
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It's questionable in my mind. They had him surrounded with 5 or 6 cops for something like 30 minutes within 15- 20 feet. Seems like they could have put him down with a taser long before he made that stupid move with the "shinny object".
 
#14,056
#14,056
hog88 said:
It's questionable in my mind. They had him surrounded with 5 or 6 cops for something like 30 minutes within 15- 20 feet. Seems like they could have put him down with a taser long before he made that stupid move with the "shinny object".
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You shoot a guy you fear has a gun with a taser at distance and your odds of a successful deployment are probably south of 40%, lower if he's wearing a thick coat.

Those aren't good odds and could actually cause him to react and fire. They made the best choice under the circumstances IMO.

Edit to clarify, tasers are reportedly somewhere around 50 to 60% effective. There is conflicting info about their use with thick winter clothing.

I still stand by assertion that the odds aren't great, if there is a suspected firearm involved or makes a low percentage taser deployment even riskier.
 
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#14,057
#14,057
KB5252 said:
You shoot a guy you fear has a gun with a taser at distance and your odds of a successful deployment are probably south of 40%, lower if he's wearing a thick coat.

Those aren't good odds and could actually cause him to react and fire. They made the best choice under the circumstances IMO.

Edit to clarify, tasers are reportedly somewhere around 50 to 60% effective. There is conflicting info about their use with thick winter clothing.

I still stand by assertion that the odds aren't great, if there is a suspected firearm involved or makes a low percentage taser deployment even riskier.
Click to expand...

You would have a point if it would have been only 2-3 cops on scene but there was 5 or 6 surrounding the guy. One could have shot him with a taser while the others had him covered, ready to fire if the taser failed and he pulled a firearm.
 
#14,058
#14,058
hog88 said:
You would have a point if it would have been only 2-3 cops on scene but there was 5 or 6 surrounding the guy. One could have shot him with a taser while the others had him covered, ready to fire if the taser failed and he pulled a firearm.
Click to expand...

If they felt they could talk him down why attempt the taser that could provoke a deadly confrontation. It has been 30 minutes. The odds are good in that situation to talk the guy down.
 
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#14,059
#14,059
'We are not safe anymore': Widow of slain NYC cop attacks woke DA Alvin Bragg over his soft criminal justice system as thousands of cops bring Fifth Avenue to halt to honor fallen colleague, 22, who was gunned down in cold blood in Harlem

  • Thousands of NYPD police officers and dignitaries attended funeral Mass for Officer Jason Rivera at St Patrick's Cathedral on Friday
Stunning scenes unfolded outside St Patrick's Cathedral on a snowy Friday morning as a sea of police officers in their finest dress blues surged towards the iconic Manhattan church to honor their murdered brother Jason Rivera, whose young widow delivered a powerful message condemning Manhattan DA's woke policies.

Mourners filling the pews of the historic cathedral heard emotional eulogies from Rivera's family members, including his young wife, Dominique Rivera, who revealed, while choking back tears, that on the day of her husband's killing, the couple had an argument and she refused to let him drive her, even after Jason told her, prophetically, that this might be the last ride he gives her. The inconsolable widow, wearing a silver pendant in the shape of her husband's police shield, called her decision 'the biggest mistake of my life.'

Dominique also used the solemn occasion to vent some of her anger at the city and state's leaders, many of whom were seated in the audience before her, accusing them of failing to protect her husband and his colleagues. In her pointed remarks, the widow singled out New York District Attorney Alvin Bragg, who has been accused of being soft of crime.

'This system continues to fail us,' she proclaimed. 'We are not safe anymore, not even the members of the service. I know you were tired of these laws, especially the ones from the new DA. I hope he’s watching you speak through me right now.

'I’m sure all of our blue family is tired too. But I promise, we promise, that your death won’t be in vain.'

53489965-10450959-image-a-6_1643384847503.jpg

A sea of officers are standing shoulder to shoulder outside St Patrick's Cathedral on a snowy Friday morning in Manhattan to honor their fallen brother, Officer Jason Rivera

53494581-10450959-image-a-18_1643391102291.jpg

The family of Officer Rivera, including his widow, seen clutching an American flag, and his mother, seen doubled over, stand outside St Patrick's Cathedral after the funeral, surrounded by a sea of blue

NYC gives final salute to slain NYPD officer | Daily Mail Online
 
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#14,061
#14,061
KB5252 said:
If they felt they could talk him down why attempt the taser that could provoke a deadly confrontation. It has been 30 minutes. The odds are good in that situation to talk the guy down.
Click to expand...

It appears they were wrong in that also. The more you defend them the worse they look.
 
#14,063
#14,063
hog88 said:
It's questionable in my mind. They had him surrounded with 5 or 6 cops for something like 30 minutes within 15- 20 feet. Seems like they could have put him down with a taser long before he made that stupid move with the "shinny object".
Click to expand...
Taser wouldn’t have worked in that situation and you don’t deploy a taster when a guy may have a firearm
 
#14,066
#14,066
hog88 said:
Why wouldn't a taser have worked and there was no indication the guy had a firearm.
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You always assume they may have a firearm especially with what he was saying and doing. Also tasers only work from close range and he had too much clothing for the probes to attach successfully
 
#14,067
#14,067
Rickyvol77 said:
Is there anyone you don’t want to shoot and kill?
Doctors, police, game wardens, government officials, nurses, hospital admin?

You are insane
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I figured that would get you riled up.

But these guys are very lucky that they were not shot at installing these cameras on private property.
 
#14,068
#14,068
Rickyvol77 said:
You always assume they may have a firearm especially with what he was saying and doing. Also tasers only work from close range and he had too much clothing for the probes to attach successfully
Click to expand...

They were within 10-15 feet of the guy, not sure what he was wearing but looked like a light jacket and shirt. If tasers won't work in that environment why the hell do they even have them?
 
#14,069
#14,069
hog88 said:
It appears they were wrong in that also. The more you defend them the worse they look.
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Turns out he wanted to commit suicide by cop, they did the right thing by keeping him talking and trying to connect. Whatever he was going through was too heavy for him. The officers didn't do anything wrong here IMO.

We can play coulda shoulda woulda but that can be countered with sound reasoning.

You could be right, a well placed taser may have stopped this, or it may have just as easily escalated the situation resulting in his death because of the direct actions of law enforcement. They decided to play it safe and attempt to talk him down. I see nothing wrong with the way they handled it.
 
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#14,071
#14,071
hog88 said:
They were within 10-15 feet of the guy, not sure what he was wearing but looked like a light jacket and shirt. If tasers won't work in that environment why the hell do they even have them?
Click to expand...
I didn't catch the thickness of his jacket. But I will say I read a study a few years ago about tasers and I often wonder why they are used. It is roughly a 50 to 55% rate of success for most jurisdictions for a successful deployment. They are notoriously inaccurate/inneffective. In fact there are some reports that the newest models are less reliable.
 
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#14,073
#14,073
So, just looking at the first few minutes of this Nashville video, I don't think officers understand that saying we don't want to hurt you while pointing a gun at someone is not going to deescalate a situation. They hear what your mouth says, but your actions say something totally different.

The opening of the video states the officer came up on the guy because he was sitting on the side of the road and offered him a ride home or whatever. If that is the case, I don't have an issue with that. But I'm wondering how it escalated into the guy pulling out his box cutter. Also, if the guy wanted to use his gun on an officer, that would have been the time to do it... not flash a box cutter.

Lastly, I kind of feel bad for this officer based on what I've seen thus far. It is an indictment on the officer profession that even mentally unstable people can't even buy into their negotiating skills or trust cops when they say "we're here to help" or "you're not going to jail". Frankly, this victim showed a reasonable amount of fear inspite of what the cop was saying. A gun pointed at you tends to cancel out whatever words you may be saying.
 
#14,074
#14,074
Rickyvol77 said:
Yes threatening murder of people because you disagree with their actions is definitely normal thinking
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No, not disagreeing with their actions. I said they are very lucky they were not shot... and before that, I said if there were any justice, they would have been shot, meaning they were fortunate to not have gone on the wrong property.
 
#14,075
#14,075
Rasputin_Vol said:
So, just looking at the first few minutes of this Nashville video, I don't think officers understand that saying we don't want to hurt you while pointing a gun at someone is not going to deescalate a situation. They hear what your mouth says, but your actions say something totally different.

The opening of the video states the officer came up on the guy because he was sitting on the side of the road and offered him a ride home or whatever. If that is the case, I don't have an issue with that. But I'm wondering how it escalated into the guy pulling out his box cutter. Also, if the guy wanted to use his gun on an officer, that would have been the time to do it... not flash a box cutter.

Lastly, I kind of feel bad for this officer based on what I've seen thus far. It is an indictment on the officer profession that even mentally unstable people can't even buy into their negotiating skills or trust cops when they say "we're here to help" or "you're not going to jail". Frankly, this victim showed a reasonable amount of fear inspite of what the cop was saying. A gun pointed at you tends to cancel out whatever words you may be saying.
Click to expand...
I’ve successfully talked at least 12 people from killing themselves in similar situations. Some people want to die and don’t want to be saved. It’s not the police’s fault that this guy wanted to die and chose to take those actions
 
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