We just witnessed the greatest season by a UT QB not named Manning

#27
#27
agent|orange said:
I know I'm being a Debbie Downer, but here's another angle:

Hendon Hooker in 2021: 7 wins
Clausen in 2001: 11 wins
Manning in 1996: 10 wins
Martin in 1998: 13 wins and a NC
Kelly in 1991: 9 wins
Ainge in 2006: 9 wins
Bray in 2012: 5 wins
Shuler in 1993: 10 wins
Dobbs in 2016: 9 wins

QBs are the only position judged both by their wins and how they affect W/L. I think we're a 5 win team without Hooker and a 9-10 win team with better (or at least more consistent) QB play.

Without Tillman, Hooker doesn't do much. Without basically ANY WR, Purdue's walk-on QB still absolutely trashed us. That's the difference IMO. Hooker himself is very inconsistent. He has a spectacular 1st Quarter, bad 2nd Quarter, usually a good couple of drives in the 3rd Quarter and his 4th Quarter is usually his worst. That's not good for a QB.
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So are you saying the op's numbers aren't real and things would be different if things were different?
 
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#28
#28
Behr said:
So are you saying the op's numbers aren't real and things would be different if things were different?
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Difficult concept time:

QBs are the most important players on the team and can't be judged just by completion %/yards/etc but more so by how they play when it really matters which is 4th Quarter.

Will I look back on 2021 Hooker and say "that's the best QB play I've seen in my entire life"? Absolutely not. He had a good year but in a system and an overall climate of the sport that heavily favors open offenses where QBs will feast.

We had the "greatest season by a UT QB not named Manning" that resulted in 7 wins. Sorry if I'm not breaking out the champagne here.
 
#29
#29
Gotta love how somebody puts a positive thread and post about a current player and yet so many wanna try to take away or make his play seem less.... After the QB play we have had the last 4 or 5 years i think I'll appreciate Hendon and be thankful he is returning
 
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#30
#30
vols1071 said:
Gotta love how somebody puts a positive thread and post about a current player and yet so many wanna try to take away or make his play seem less.... After the QB play we have had the last 4 or 5 years i think I'll appreciate Hendon and be thankful he is returning
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Me too. I said it from the beginning I like Hooker but overall people are blinded by his amazing starts to the games.

I am quite literally reinforcing every point I've made and people think I'm trashing Hooker. I'm not. Without him we win 4-5 games at best.
 
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#32
#32
southgatevol said:
Exactly. I know you missed the point but talent matters even in positions other than QB.
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Just saying brother, wins and losses is what matters. Cincinnati is in the playoff about to start. You honestly think UT'S talent is that far below Cincinnati? The 98 team had something no other UT team has had since. They had luck and a serious will to win. Not to mention the defense. As I've said in other posts, UT will not be top tier sec until the defense is top tier. Offense will win some games defense wins championships.
 
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#33
#33
southgatevol said:
Exactly. I know you missed the point but talent matters even in positions other than QB.
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Just saying brother, wins and losses is what matters. Cincinnati is in the playoff about to start. You honestly think UT'S talent is that far below Cincinnati? The 98 team had something no other UT team has had since. They had luck and a serious will to win. Not to mention the defense. As I've said in other posts, UT will not be top tier sec until the defense is top tier. Offense will win some games defense wins championships.
 
#35
#35
Volsfannn said:
Just saying brother, wins and losses is what matters. Cincinnati is in the playoff about to start. You honestly think UT'S talent is that far below Cincinnati? The 98 team had something no other UT team has had since. They had luck and a serious will to win. Not to mention the defense. As I've said in other posts, UT will not be top tier sec until the defense is top tier. Offense will win some games defense wins championships.
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98 team had talent, 21 team not so much. Not putting this team down because imo this team gave as much as they could. I have tremendous respect for this team. Yes I believe Cincinnati has quite a bit more talent than this version of the Vols.
 
#37
#37
Mtnvol80 said:
I first read this and I thought that's a stupid take but honestly that's highly possible in this era of mobil QBs
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A lot of schemes REQUIRE a mobile QB if not a guy with mobility to extend plays to compensate for errors in the scheme and bad playcalls.
 
#38
#38
Volsfannn said:
Just saying brother, wins and losses is what matters. Cincinnati is in the playoff about to start. You honestly think UT'S talent is that far below Cincinnati? The 98 team had something no other UT team has had since. They had luck and a serious will to win. Not to mention the defense. As I've said in other posts, UT will not be top tier sec until the defense is top tier. Offense will win some games defense wins championships.
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Just out of curiosity looked at upcoming draft projections. Cincinnati has 3 first rounders projected. I will let you guess on Tennessee.
 
#39
#39
southgatevol said:
Just out of curiosity looked at upcoming draft projections. Cincinnati has 3 first rounders projected. I will let you guess on Tennessee.
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Recruiting class rankings past 4 years. 2017 UC 63 UT 15. 2018 UC 47 UT 20. 2019 UC 89 UT 13. 2020 UC 39 UT 8. And just saying bama is about to boat race out of the stadium your 3 1st round draft picks
 
#40
#40
Volsfannn said:
Recruiting class rankings past 4 years. 2017 UC 63 UT 15. 2018 UC 47 UT 20. 2019 UC 89 UT 13. 2020 UC 39 UT 8. And just saying bama is about to boat race out of the stadium your 3 1st round draft picks
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Coaching/Development matter
I guess
 
#43
#43
perico said:
What’s overshadowed by an inconsistent team this year is this:

Statistically speaking, there isn’t much room for debate. Hendon’s 2021 season is the greatest by a Vol QB not named Peyton. His final numbers for the year are just insane, and he achieved these without any meaningful snaps in our opening game against BGSU to inflate his statistics. He finished the year with roughly 3000 passing yards (2,945 to be exact), 31 TDs and 3 Ints. He had the highest yards per pass attempt in program history (better than Peyton in any of his 4 seasons), and still completed 68.1% of his passes (Manning’s best was 64.3%).

Here are some comparison numbers. I’m leaving out some of the greats such as Holloway, as their numbers are pedestrian due to the offenses they ran at the time and don’t reflect on their greatness as a QB:

Single season best Yards per attempt:

Hendon Hooker in 2021: 9.8
Clausen in 2001: 8.4
Manning in 1996: 8.7
Martin in 1998: 8.1
Kelly in 1991: 8.3
Ainge in 2006: 8.6
Bray in 2012: 8.0
Shuler in 1993: 8.3
Dobbs in 2016: 8.3



Highest single season completion pct:

Hooker in 2021: 68.1%
Kelly in 1991: 63.1%
Shuler in 1993: 64.6%
Peyton In 1995: 64.2%
Martin in 1998: 57.4%
Clausen in 2001: 64.1%
Ainge in 2006: 67.0%
Crompton in 2009: 58.3%
Bray in 2011: 59.5%
Dobbs in 2016: 63.0% (63.6% in 2015 with 6 starts)
JG in 2018: 62.2%



Best TD to Int Ratio in a season

Hooker in 2021: 31 TDs: 3 INTs
Kelly in 1991: 15 TDs, 15 INTs (Great QB, but dude was an INT machine)
Shuler in 1993: 25:8
Manning in 1997: 36:11
Martin in 1998: 19:6
Clausen in 2003: 27/9
Ainge in 2007: 31:10
Crompton in 2009: 27:13
Bray in 2012: 34:12
Dobbs in 2016: 27/12

Only Joshua Dobbs had more rushing yards in a season (2015 and 2016).
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Another reason I'm looking forward to next year and see his and the teams progress.
 
#44
#44
agent|orange said:
I know I'm being a Debbie Downer, but here's another angle:

Hendon Hooker in 2021: 7 wins
Clausen in 2001: 11 wins
Manning in 1996: 10 wins
Martin in 1998: 13 wins and a NC
Kelly in 1991: 9 wins
Ainge in 2006: 9 wins
Bray in 2012: 5 wins
Shuler in 1993: 10 wins
Dobbs in 2016: 9 wins

QBs are the only position judged both by their wins and how they affect W/L. I think we're a 5 win team without Hooker and a 9-10 win team with better (or at least more consistent) QB play.

Without Tillman, Hooker doesn't do much. Without basically ANY WR, Purdue's walk-on QB still absolutely trashed us. That's the difference IMO. Hooker himself is very inconsistent. He has a spectacular 1st Quarter, bad 2nd Quarter, usually a good couple of drives in the 3rd Quarter and his 4th Quarter is usually his worst. That's not good for a QB.
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UT had defense back then though..
 
#47
#47
Volsfannn said:
That's the point. Not going to win many football games against mediocre opponents when defense gives up average 38 points per game. Don't care how good the qb/offense is.
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Counterpoint:

Having an offense that can only possess the ball for 15:00 in a high stakes game of score-in-2:00 or punt-in-:45 will make even the vaunted 2001 defense gassed.

We live and die by that scheme and it'll fail more than succeed if we don't execute. Our execution late game has been lacking, hence my stats but people don't want to talk about flaws in a 7-6 season and would instead... cheer for being barely over .500 so long as the QB has a good year heavily skewed by early game efficiency... I guess.
 
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#48
#48
agent|orange said:
Counterpoint:

Having an offense that can only possess the ball for 15:00 in a high stakes game of score-in-2:00 or punt-in-:45 will make even the vaunted 2001 defense gassed.

We live and die by that scheme and it'll fail more than succeed if we don't execute. Our execution late game has been lacking, hence my stats but people don't want to talk about flaws in a 7-6 season.
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Exactly. If Heupel slowed it down in 4th qtr against Bama it would've been a different outcome. On two drives inside redzone 3 running plays up the middle for net -2 yards and a total of 15 seconds each off the clock. The fast pace is great but when defense is gassed figure a way to get them rest, Heupel failed at that multiple times this season.
 
#49
#49
agent|orange said:
Difficult concept time:

QBs are the most important players on the team and can't be judged just by completion %/yards/etc but more so by how they play when it really matters which is 4th Quarter.

Will I look back on 2021 Hooker and say "that's the best QB play I've seen in my entire life"? Absolutely not. He had a good year but in a system and an overall climate of the sport that heavily favors open offenses where QBs will feast.

We had the "greatest season by a UT QB not named Manning" that resulted in 7 wins. Sorry if I'm not breaking out the champagne here.
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Nobody expected us to be as good as we were. Nobody expected Hooker to do what he's done. Doesn't take a rocket surgeon to know what you think you're telling everyone like you're the only one that knows it.

Nothing op said is false and I'm not interested in what if's.

I'm happy we won 7 instead of the 5 thst you say we should've, or could've, or might've or whatever.
 
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#50
#50
Behr said:
Nobody expected us to be as good as we were. Nobody expected Hooker to do what he's done. Doesn't take a rocket surgeon to know what you think you're telling everyone like you're the only one that knows it.

Nothing op said is false and I'm not interested in what it's.

I'm happy we won 7 instead of the 5 thst you say we should've, or could've, or might've or whatever.
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This was not, objectively, the greatest season of any UT QB not named Manning though.

This was a good 1Q QB that slumped when the team, that utterly relies on good QB play, needed him and we went 7-6. If you want to go throw a party over 7-6... knock yourself out.
 
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