The scoop and score ruling…

#26
#26
KeyVol14 said:
We got hosed simple as that. The ref even threw the fumble bag down and Atleast two refs ran with the defense to the end zone. There was no whistle blown and both special team units came out for the FG. It was only until then they decided to talk about that play. It was one of the worst calls I’ve ever seen.
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Only call worse would be the Jabar Gafney incompletion ruled as a TD.
 
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#29
#29
I heard that sometimes the refs let it play out in order to not accidentally rule out a fumble that is real. Think back several years, Vandy got hosed in a game against us (which was a good thing!) and ran back a fumble where they whistled the play dead prematurely. That was the only way ole Dools could beat Vandy that year (2011 I think). It wasn't a good look for our program but our HBC acted like he had won the super bowl.

Anyway....this is an argument being offered. I still say BS. If forward progress was stopped, it would have had to be prior to the fumble, right? Or did they decide that his forward progress was stopped AS he fumbled? It doesn't make any sense

Here is what I think. The fake was very good. I was fooled. Go back and watch, the cameraman was fooled also. The refs were fooled as well. They probably didn't realize that Corrall even had the ball till it popped out, and then they were like "oh **** maybe we should have called forward progress".

But they should not get a do-over. No whistle, no stop to the play. Such BS.
 
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#31
#31
It was a crap call. It was an RPO read to the lead back out in the flat pass. This call and the safety call showed that this crew couldn't make a call in real time.
 
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#32
#32
BanditVol said:
I heard that sometimes the refs let it play out in order to not accidentally rule out a fumble that is real. Think back several years, Vandy got hosed in a game against us (which was a good thing!) and ran back a fumble where they whistled the play dead prematurely. That was the only way ole Dools could beat Vandy that year (2011 I think). It wasn't a good look for our program but our HBC acted like he had won the super bowl.

Anyway....this is an argument being offered. I still say BS. If forward progress was stopped, it would have had to be prior to the fumble, right? Or did they decide that his forward progress was stopped AS he fumbled? It doesn't make any sense

Here is what I think. The fake was very good. I was fooled. Go back and watch, the cameraman was fooled also. The refs were fooled as well. They probably didn't realize that Corrall even had the ball till it popped out, and then they were like "oh **** maybe we should have called forward progress".

But they should not get a do-over. No whistle, no stop to the play. Such BS.
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Agree. You shouldn't be able to go back after the fact and arbitrarily rule a player was "under control" (I think was the exact wording). I've never heard of "under control" before. The NFL had the old "in the grasp" back in the day. I understand if they call forward progress and blow it dead that that would take away the fumble. That sucks, and that happens from time to time. The problem is that they didn't rule the forward progress had been stopped until after they signaled touchdown. They huddled up after the white hat and umpire (the 2 closest to the play) let the play continue and signaled td and then changed their minds. So crooked. I still can't wrap my head around it. I get it, bad calls happen in the heat and speed of the game. Pass interference, complete/incomplete, etc...They will not rule everything correctly. Instant replay helps with some things. However, this was a conscious decision to overturn a play after the fact.
 
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#33
#33
What really, really, really, irks me about this one is ...... how we can't catch a break with Hanlon's Razor.

There's no conspiracy(except bama /s) in the SEC to keep the top teams on top and UT down. If there was a conspiracy along those lines it would favor UT over Ole Miss. We're a much bigger revenue stream than the Rebels. Zebras too stupid to count to 4 and keep possesion downs accurate dont have the capacity to implement collusive decisions mid game.
The Zebras are just under trained idiots whom aren't held accountable.

Anyone remember the infamous 2016 Vandy game when Dobbs fumbled (mid 4th qtr I think). Vanderbilt got the ball after it was reviewed. It was hard to tell live, but upon review Dobbs clearly fumbled before he was down and Vandy clearly recovered. But...... the F-ing ball didn't get recovered until after the whistle. I'm not certain if Dobbs fumbled before the whistle, but that's irrelevant. You can't recover the ball after the whistle. Watching the play live Dobbs got hit and you couldn't tell when/where the ball came out on his way to the ground. However, watching it real time with audio (I had to rewind DVR because the broadcast never showed a real time replay with audio) you could clearly tell the whistle blew after contact while Dobbs was still somewhat verticle on his way to the ground. Vandy didn't recover until after Dobbs hit the ground.

When they don't blow the whistle they screw us. When they blow the whistle they screw us.

We're really due to get the clean end of the stick for a change...
 
#36
#36
I would like to see an independent review of this from someone that isn't connected to either school or the NCAA. I have no clue who, but it would be nive for someone to annualize the rules and look at what happened and state the case.
 
#37
#37
volinSmyrna said:
Agree. You shouldn't be able to go back after the fact and arbitrarily rule a player was "under control" (I think was the exact wording). I've never heard of "under control" before. The NFL had the old "in the grasp" back in the day. I understand if they call forward progress and blow it dead that that would take away the fumble. That sucks, and that happens from time to time. The problem is that they didn't rule the forward progress had been stopped until after they signaled touchdown. They huddled up after the white hat and umpire (the 2 closest to the play) let the play continue and signaled td and then changed their minds. So crooked. I still can't wrap my head around it. I get it, bad calls happen in the heat and speed of the game. Pass interference, complete/incomplete, etc...They will not rule everything correctly. Instant replay helps with some things. However, this was a conscious decision to overturn a play after the fact.
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I agree with this. The default should be to defer to the call on the field. Only if there is incontrovertible evidence to overturn a call should it be done. No whistles, not arm waving, and a TD was signaled. Nobody was even contesting the events. The problem with forward motion is that it is subjective and applied incredibly unevenly. Even in normal, non-controversial plays, you will see an incredible difference in how the refs choose a spot when, say, a receiver tries to make a play on the perimeter and ends up losing yards. Sometimes they will spot it where the catch was made, sometimes closer to the whistle, sometimes in between. But often, you can see the ref pickup the ball and meander about till he finds a good spot to set it. No rhyme or reason whatsoever, and clearly no relationship to forward progress or a so called "football move".

I don't think it was to intentionally harm us. I think it is purely incompetence in this case. Sure, everybody makes bad calls. As you say, the game moves fast and humans can only do so much. In aviation, this was recognized a long time ago and now crews are heavily trained in what is known as CRM (crew resource management). Officiating crews should receive copious amounts of training in CRM. This crew has an ineffective leader, no clear guidelines for decision making, and possibly an oversized influence by one of the crew. This results in bad calls in every game they officiate. IMO.
 
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#40
#40
1world1love said:
I don't think it was to intentionally harm us. I think it is purely incompetence in this case. Sure, everybody makes bad calls. As you say, the game moves fast and humans can only do so much. In aviation, this was recognized a long time ago and now crews are heavily trained in what is known as CRM (crew resource management). Officiating crews should receive copious amounts of training in CRM. This crew has an ineffective leader, no clear guidelines for decision making, and possibly an oversized influence by one of the crew. This results in bad calls in every game they officiate. IMO.
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Very well said. I'm not very knowledgeable at all, but there were some good links posted here after the 2019 bama game about the pay, vetting, training, and performance reviews SEC refs go through.
It's a joke. The SEC( all conferences really) seems to treat them as part time vocational workers if not avocational enthusiasts.

As much as I'd love a ref scalp, it just isn't very plausible for the SEC to do so. I've been skimming comment sections and other message boards. The other P5 fans think we've got 1st world problems in comparison to their 3rd world officiating problems.

Reminds me of when I first clawed my way to middle management and upper management laughed at my scalp list. Found out I wasn't trimming the fat out of my unit until I had infrastructure in place and replacements trained.

The SEC really needs to pony up the funds and adopt the NFL's training and oversight system. The cost would make me a rich man, but that's merely a drop of water out of the ocean from SEC revenue.

Maybe when the super conference are established....
 
#43
#43
I'm sick of the SEC and Ole Miss mental gymnastics to excuse that call. One of the most egregious things I've seen in any level of the sport.
 
#46
#46
Hey, Tennessee scored. Let's call Birmingham and see what can be done. "PLAY IS UNDER FURTHER REVIEW".
 
#47
#47
Lane Kiffin is claiming "several [Tennessee] defenders stopped and heard a whistle too".

Has anyone fact checked that? Or is it more blatant lies to excuse a game-deciding error?
 
#48
#48
Alcovolic1412 said:
My question is how can you call the play down based off his forward progress but also call it a fumble at the same time?
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That’s what I would want answered if I was Heupel. If it’s a fumble then the scoop and score should have counted. If forward progress was stopped Ole miss should have retained possession. 🤬🤬
 
#49
#49
I honestly think the whole forward progression deal is a bunch of BS. Whoever thought it would be a good idea to implement that is beyond me. The play should not be stopped until a player is down, no matter what.
 
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#50
#50
Vols919 said:
Lane Kiffin is claiming "several [Tennessee] defenders stopped and heard a whistle too".

Has anyone fact checked that? Or is it more blatant lies to excuse a game-deciding error?
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I hadn't heard that, but if Lane Kiffin said that, I think no fact check required. His reputation as a play by the rules guy is unquestionable. His honesty is beyond reproach. End Thread.
 
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