Pictures of Warren down on terrible spot?

#51
#51
Godfatha said:
This. The spot I believe was correct. The other questionable calls going on was what had me pissed.
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It was a complete breakdown by the refs from start to finish. The fact that it was a first down is really a stupid thing to argue about. We still got a couple shots at the EndZone anyway.
 
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#56
#56
volinthenorth said:
Two gifs in this thread, including Marcia Brady, a LOL, and a cartoon skunk. Very mature, sir. I guess you got me.
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You don’t get to 71k post with maturity and serious debate of tedious non issues like this hill you virtue signalers are trying to die on.

As you was
 
#57
#57
Okay, here's a more detailed look at Warren going to the ground with the ball. The next five captures are in chronological order.

In this frame, Warren and the Ole Miss defender have just made contact. #3 is going to end up on the other side of Warren. Importantly, his impact is going to "crumple" Warren, compressing his upper body and taking away a lot of the momentum that might have taken him across the 40 yard line still in the air. The football is in Warren's left arm, tucked tight against his body. Through the next five frames, keep an eye on the lower o of the number 8 on his jersey; the ball is always on his front side opposite that spot.

1634520051290.png

Fast forward a split-second. Warren still hasn't made contact with the ground, but he's pretty close. You might think his right knee is down, but it's not. Not yet. See how much the impact slowed his forward momentum.

1634520234683.png

Fast forward another split second. This is, as near as I can tell, where Warren is actually down. Right leg makes contact with the ground from the thigh on down. Note where the lower circle of the number 8 is. That's where the ball is when Warren is "down."

1634520323811.png

One other point before we move on to image #4: Warren's body is twisted from the waist up. His lower body is more or less flat to the ground, but his upper body is turned to his left. He has his left shoulder much higher above the ground than his right shoulder. His right elbow is just starting to touch. He's going to come the rest of the way down on his right side.

Okay, now another split-second forward. Warren's right arm has now extended. If you didn't know where the ball was, under his mid-torso, you'd think he's reaching the ball forward for the first down. I wish:

1634520510843.png

And the final shot. Notice how Warren's momentum, though slowed, continues to move him forward. The ball is now on the 40 yard line. Still under his body. But it's too late.

1634520615602.png

The refs called this one right. It's almost surprising how right they got it, actually, given that all five of these shots occurred in less than a second and the two key bits of information (the ball, and his right thigh) were not both visible from any single angle.
 
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#59
#59
volinthenorth said:
That's true. To get to 71k posts, you have to spew a lot of meaningless drivel. Major achievement, Slice!
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Thanks.
And you have no idea.
I really enjoy the threads where people get crazy of irrelevant details……like this one.
VN has been meaningless entertainment for years.
It beats the hell out of Twater and Facebook or all that other social media garbage.
 
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#60
#60
VOLfrombama said:
The forward progress strip sack scoop and score call was 1000x worse than this spot.
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Right. The spot was correct. The scoop and score that was reversed was what should’ve sent the crowd into a frenzy. The officials in their ineptitude decided the outcome of the game.
 
#61
#61
VFL-82-JP said:
I didn't find them with a quick search to answer OP's question, but the network showed the other angles last night. The best angle for seeing the ball wasn't totally from the other side. More like an angle from the end zone. Clearly showed the ball tucked into his gut, held there by his left arm.
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Can anyone find the view from the other angle?
 
#62
#62
Ty4Vols said:
May I also add the the shadow under Warren is very dark as to indicate the item creating the shadow is close by. Using the shadow of the Ole Miss play in the foreground who's shadow is very light gray it appears conclusive that the darker shadow must be cast by the item in its closest approximate. That would be Warren. Just to be clear it is entirely impossible to cast a shadow of any item under that item if it is in contact with the surface. Light just don't bend that way.
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It's tough getting an answer to a scientific question when everyone's emotions are raging at a dozen different things--some of them each other!

I think the interpretation of the shadows that best matches the stills from different angles is that when his knee touched the ground the rest of his torso was still coming to ground. His shoulders were maybe 24" above the turf.

See if you agree that the dark shadow you identified beneath his upper body "merges" with the player's body at his knee at that point.

Also, look how far shadows extend toward the side-view camera when players are standing, as a gauge on how "wide" the shadow under the player might extend (in both directions).
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Speaking generally, a good way to determine forward progress in these multiple views when we can't see where the ball was at the moment the player was down is to--when you have a good angle on when the player becomes down-by-contact--to find a "time identifier" based on the position or action of another player, away from the action but within the frame.

If, for example, I know that, several feet away, #33's hand made contact with another player's helmet at that same moment that the ball carrier's knee was down... I can watch #33 in another angle video that shows the ball's position relative to the markers, and when #33's hand makes contact with the other player's helmet, I know that action timestamps the ball's forward progress.

Don't know if that trick works in this case, and I guess it doesn't matter, since my DeLorean is in the shop getting the capacitor re-fluxed.
 
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#64
#64
Orange-heart said:
Can anyone find the view from the other angle?
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1634518950233-png.403927
 
#66
#66
CAVPUT said:
No it wasn't. And it wasn't the refs and the spot. Warren was headed to the turf before the defender made contact. He didn't fight for that first down. That one is on him IMO.
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I was thinking the same thing it seemed like you would try to stay up and run hard at any point in the game but especially fourth and long late in the game. He just kind of went down. When I was watching I was mad because I really thought if he tried to get any yac he would of got a first down easily. Was a good catch tho. My cats couldn’t even catch the ball against UGA
 
#67
#67
rocketskates said:
Right. The spot was correct. The scoop and score that was reversed was what should’ve sent the crowd into a frenzy. The officials in their ineptitude decided the outcome of the game.
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Perhaps, but the game that ensued after that failure by the refs would have been a completely different game than if they had gotten it right. Who knows, we may have won 30-20. We may have lost 33-24. It could have been anything. But it wouldn't have been the exact same game by any measure. Whatever would have occurred in reality after the botched call would not have been the same.
 
#68
#68
VolforFootball said:
Perhaps, but the game that ensued after that failure by the refs would have been a completely different game than if they had gotten it right. Who knows, we may have won 30-20. We may have lost 33-24. It could have been anything. But it wouldn't have been the exact same game by any measure. Whatever would have occurred in reality after the botched call would not have been the same.
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I agree. I’ve stated it before…we don’t have the fumble recovery TD taken from us, we are up by 2 and running out the clock at the end rather than trying to score a touchdown.
 
#70
#70
Orangeslice13 said:
There’s a photo that has the ball in his left hand just under his facemask. You know, like someone diving. He made it. Not that it matters now.
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His face mask must have been hanging on his belt then because that’s where the ball was when he went down. I’m all for taking the refs to task when it’s warranted like on the strip sack but this argument is tedious and ridiculous. The ball was short of the line when he went down and everybody needs to understand and get over it. Move on to something that deserves criticism. Like why we ran two running plays on 2nd and long and 3rd and long. It shouldn’t have gotten to having to make 4th and 27.
 
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#72
#72
VFL-82-JP said:
Okay, here's a more detailed look at Warren going to the ground with the ball. The next five captures are in chronological order.

In this frame, Warren and the Ole Miss defender have just made contact. #3 is going to end up on the other side of Warren. Importantly, his impact is going to "crumple" Warren, compressing his upper body and taking away a lot of the momentum that might have taken him across the 40 yard line still in the air. The football is in Warren's left arm, tucked tight against his body. Through the next five frames, keep an eye on the lower o of the number 8 on his jersey; the ball is always on his front side opposite that spot.

View attachment 403937

Fast forward a split-second. Warren still hasn't made contact with the ground, but he's pretty close. You might think his right knee is down, but it's not. Not yet. See how much the impact slowed his forward momentum.

View attachment 403938

Fast forward another split second. This is, as near as I can tell, where Warren is actually down. Right leg makes contact with the ground from the thigh on down. Note where the lower circle of the number 8 is. That's where the ball is when Warren is "down."

View attachment 403940

One other point before we move on to image #4: Warren's body is twisted from the waist up. His lower body is more or less flat to the ground, but his upper body is turned to his left. He has his left shoulder much higher above the ground than his right shoulder. His right elbow is just starting to touch. He's going to come the rest of the way down on his right side.

Okay, now another split-second forward. Warren's right arm has now extended. If you didn't know where the ball was, under his mid-torso, you'd think he's reaching the ball forward for the first down. I wish:

View attachment 403942

And the final shot. Notice how Warren's momentum, though slowed, continues to move him forward. The ball is now on the 40 yard line. Still under his body. But it's too late.

View attachment 403943

The refs called this one right. It's almost surprising how right they got it, actually, given that all five of these shots occurred in less than a second and the two key bits of information (the ball, and his right thigh) were not both visible from any single angle.
Click to expand...
Thanks for posting that. The truth hurts when you want to believe something so badly. Most guys only look at pictures anyway and that series helps clear it up. Anybody that continues to argue can’t get past their orange blinders and it’s a waste of time arguing with them.
 
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#73
#73
s1216 said:
Also it is my understanding that the yellow lines come from sensors on the chains. Looks like the chains "moved" several inches during the play. I think in most cases the offense gets that call just not our night.
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As you can see from the very next play, it does not appear that the yellow line is produced by sensors in the chain. The yellow line is at the 50 while the chain is at the 49.
F01EDB3A-2263-4492-ABAC-74CB8A999E52.jpeg
 
#74
#74
Y’all, I figured it out. See the picture below:

E606405A-1A3A-445B-A543-8EA444ABEF54.jpeg

Y’all might not be able to tell, but the two guys on the chain gang are Dooley and Botch. Pruitt was in the replay booth.
 
#75
#75
Delmar said:
His face mask must have been hanging on his belt then because that’s where the ball was when he went down. I’m all for taking the refs to task when it’s warranted like on the strip sack but this argument is tedious and ridiculous. The ball was short of the line when he went down and everybody needs to understand and get over it. Move on to something that deserves criticism. Like why we ran two running plays on 2nd and long and 3rd and long. It shouldn’t have gotten to having to make 4th and 27.
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Show me the hold on one of those plays.
It’s a ghost hold that made it 27 to begin with. The refs were horrible from beginning to end. It’s been pointed out this is the same ref that reviewed the 4th down Vandy spot that ultimately gave Vandy a win against Butch Jones.
Arguing this point is stupid. And you’re defending the indefensible.
 
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