Coronavirus (No politics)

[walkenvol]

Thanks. I think you and I are aligned on this. It is hard to stay sympathetic in conversations like this. Usually people who are worked up have lost someone so they really don't want to hear that our leaders have failed us, masks don't work, or that the vaccines aren't as good as what we were sold. When you are hurt that deeply, facts tend not to matter as much and especially if you find them objectionable.

My father in law died with Covid. He had long running lung disease, caught it, recovered, then relapsed and died. He was the last of our parents so that was tough. But saving lives depends on the raw truth and intelligent decisions made on good information. I am not comfortable that our "leaders and experts" have or are giving us the facts. I think they're manipulating us through a "narrative" that is more political and business than health.

Do you have any links to the air purifiers you are using? I’d like to educate myself on those - thanks!

 

[SN-A-C Orange]

I'm not sure I follow. Are you saying that if natural immunity protects someone from the Delta Variant it really isn't protecting them from reinfection?

Natural immunity so far appears to be holding against variants. Those promoting the vaccines speculate that they're equally effective against variants as against the original virus.... but the hard stats on the true effectiveness of the vaccines has not been published yet. We just know that the numbers coming out on the number of breakthrough cases cannot align with earlier vaccine claims.

@ sjt18 .. much respect for your thoughts, and opinions! And especially the effort you put into air filtration! Look forward to hearing your perspective and various fronts ... now on to my attempt to explain what I obviously botched earlier ...

Okay ... in Israel .. their first battle with covid was the alpha variant (I think) ... that built up natural immunity to 'one kind of covid' - the alpha variant.

The delta variant comes along and the natural immunity does not prevent those with 'natural immunity' (to alpha variant) from getting covid 'again.' BUT it is really a 'different virus - a different variant.' In this scenario, yes they did test positive for covid twice, ... BUT I am proposing that it is not a re-infection. It is a new infection.

Studied under a brilliant man who formerly worked for the CDC in Atlanta. He said the reason some people get the flu more than once during the 'flu season' is they actually pick up a different variant of the flu - which they do not have (natural or shot) immunities for in their system. That is why the flu shot appears to be ineffective in some cases - the vaccine in the flu shot does not work (build up immunities) against every variant - it only works against 1 or 2 ... according to Peter S.

I think the statistical data showing less hospitalizations from 2nd covid postive tests ... suggests that natural immunities OR shot immunities are mitigating the degree to which people are being affected. - I am not a doctor. I am sharing what I think I see in the stats and data. But it is easy to misconstrue the data. So, I have no heartburn if someone takes the same data and comes to a different conclusion. It means one or both of us is wrong. It happens. We are after all - only human.

 

[SN-A-C Orange]

Thought of the case of the American sailors aboard the Roosevelt, assuming the report was true ... 13 USS Roosevelt Sailors Test Positive For COVID-19, Again

Soldiers tested positive for covid twice ... it could be explained ... several ways .... this was before the shots were being given ... so I excluded shot immunities from the equation.
- Natural immunities did not last. [Possible.]
- The sailors got such a mild, minor case (the first time), that no (or minimal) immunities were actually created. [Possible - seems unlikely.]
- The sailors got a false positive on one of the tests. [Possible - but unlikely.]
- There was more than one variant on the ship and some sailors got both variants. [Impossible to prove or disprove.]
- The virus may be capable of becoming dormant and later reactivating in some people's immune systems. [This sounds like a reach to me.]
...feel free to add some more ... these are the ones I have seen in print proposed.

 

[chrismc1000]

Debating if me and my wife should still go to Disney world in mid November we are both vaccinated but is it wise to get on a plane with this covid still going strong and what will things look like two months from now? Hopefully better but the way things have gone you have to prepare for the worst and what new variant will be in the mix? I was thinking last January that with the combination of the vaccines and herd immunity that things would be better by this time now nearly 20 months into this pandemic but unfortunately I was wrong.

Look man unless you're in a hazmat suit with you own endless supply of oxygen you will always have a greater than 50% chance of catching it no matter what. The only real to curb or stop this virus from spreading and many others is to be in a hazmat suit until all known cases are over with. So wearing your mask isn't really doing anything for you after you have been wearing it for 30 min especially if you touch it through out the day or work in a dirty environment.

 

[chrismc1000]

@sjt18

From the CDC website " Cases of reinfection with COVID-19 have been reported, but remain rare. "

Iirc the cdc was saying once you get the Chinese virus then you can't get it again for at least 3 months. Well my wife had it twice in a matter of two months. And their is a lot of stuff the cdc kept flip flopping on. Until we are 10 years down the road all data right now is useless. We need to wait bc different data keeps coming up changing the narrative of what we think we know about this virus.

 

[chrismc1000]

Thought of the case of the American sailors aboard the Roosevelt, assuming the report was true ... 13 USS Roosevelt Sailors Test Positive For COVID-19, Again

Soldiers tested positive for covid twice ... it could be explained ... several ways .... this was before the shots were being given ... so I excluded shot immunities from the equation.
- Natural immunities did not last. [Possible.]
- The sailors got such a mild, minor case (the first time), that no (or minimal) immunities were actually created. [Possible - seems unlikely.]
- The sailors got a false positive on one of the tests. [Possible - but unlikely.]
- There was more than one variant on the ship and some sailors got both variants. [Impossible to prove or disprove.]
- The virus may be capable of becoming dormant and later reactivating in some people's immune systems. [This sounds like a reach to me.]
...feel free to add some more ... these are the ones I have seen in print proposed.

Well did they have the test results sent off to the same lab that the leader did in Africa? I ask bc apparently one of his goats and one of his flowers had caught the Chinese virus. Also the rushed test for the virus is proven to be un accurate as they have produced a lot of false negative/positive results.

 

[BenGrimm]

Local hospital has surpassed peak numbers of last January. The local health officials were just perplexed at the low vaccination rate in our region.

Of those hospitalized only 26 are vaccinated, compared to 382 patients who have yet to receive the shot(s).

Of the 106 patients in the ICU, 3 are vaccinated.

 

[volwindy]

Debating if me and my wife should still go to Disney world in mid November we are both vaccinated but is it wise to get on a plane with this covid still going strong and what will things look like two months from now? Hopefully better but the way things have gone you have to prepare for the worst and what new variant will be in the mix? I was thinking last January that with the combination of the vaccines and herd immunity that things would be better by this time now nearly 20 months into this pandemic but unfortunately I was wrong.

We just returned from Africa yesterday. Lots of time in airports and airplanes - the most crowded places of our entire trip. We kept our distance at the airport, but never felt concerned there or in the air.

 

[GAVol]

Debating if me and my wife should still go to Disney world in mid November we are both vaccinated but is it wise to get on a plane with this covid still going strong and what will things look like two months from now? Hopefully better but the way things have gone you have to prepare for the worst and what new variant will be in the mix? I was thinking last January that with the combination of the vaccines and herd immunity that things would be better by this time now nearly 20 months into this pandemic but unfortunately I was wrong.

I wouldn’t hesitate... Honestly, the flight will be the safest part of the trip. I’ve flown about 10 times the past 6 months. It’s just not that big of a deal.

If you’re vaccinated and just stay conscious of what you’re doing, you should be fine.

 

[tbh]

I wouldn’t hesitate... Honestly, the flight will be the safest part of the trip. I’ve flown about 10 times the past 6 months. It’s just not that big of a deal.

If you’re vaccinated and just stay conscious of what you’re doing, you should be fine.

Good to know. It's likely I'll be flying to to S. America in the next month or two, and the thought of getting on a plane in this day and time wasn't inspiring much confidence.

Side note question: are they still requiring a negative test to get on a flight back to the US, and does it have to be PCR or can it be antigen? I'm not terribly confident in the turnaround times possible there, haha.

 

[BenGrimm]

I wouldn’t hesitate... Honestly, the flight will be the safest part of the trip. I’ve flown about 10 times the past 6 months. It’s just not that big of a deal.

If you’re vaccinated and just stay conscious of what you’re doing, you should be fine.

And they require masks on planes. Surprise there aren’t major out breaks from flights.

 

[sjt18]

@ sjt18 .. much respect for your thoughts, and opinions! And especially the effort you put into air filtration! Look forward to hearing your perspective and various fronts ... now on to my attempt to explain what I obviously botched earlier ...

Okay ... in Israel .. their first battle with covid was the alpha variant (I think) ... that built up natural immunity to 'one kind of covid' - the alpha variant.

The delta variant comes along and the natural immunity does not prevent those with 'natural immunity' (to alpha variant) from getting covid 'again.' BUT it is really a 'different virus - a different variant.' In this scenario, yes they did test positive for covid twice, ... BUT I am proposing that it is not a re-infection. It is a new infection.

Studied under a brilliant man who formerly worked for the CDC in Atlanta. He said the reason some people get the flu more than once during the 'flu season' is they actually pick up a different variant of the flu - which they do not have (natural or shot) immunities for in their system. That is why the flu shot appears to be ineffective in some cases - the vaccine in the flu shot does not work (build up immunities) against every variant - it only works against 1 or 2 ... according to Peter S.

I think the statistical data showing less hospitalizations from 2nd covid postive tests ... suggests that natural immunities OR shot immunities are mitigating the degree to which people are being affected. - I am not a doctor. I am sharing what I think I see in the stats and data. But it is easy to misconstrue the data. So, I have no heartburn if someone takes the same data and comes to a different conclusion. It means one or both of us is wrong. It happens. We are after all - only human.

I can buy that to a degree except previously infected people do not seem to be making up a large percentage of new infections even when the Delta Variant is significant.

Where I live they've detected Delta in wastewater for several months.... oddly long before anyone tested positive for it so asymptomatic and mildly symptomatic cases are still predominant.

Our Health Dept reports are consistently showing about 12% of new confirmed cases as fully vaccinated and 1% previously infected (without knowing whether antibody memory "stuck").

Thanks much for the very respectful response. This conversation usually breaks down to those in denial and those in crazed panic. Thanks for sharing without any of that.

 

[sjt18]

Do you have any links to the air purifiers you are using? I’d like to educate myself on those - thanks!

iWave-R Air Ionization System Nu-Calgon

Apparently under pressure they took down their case study but the device still kills any virus that goes through it. Pretty simple concept. It is installed on the inlet of your HVAC. It ionizes the air between the two poles and robs anything that goes through of hydrogen.... thus killing it.

 

[MAD]

Good to know. It's likely I'll be flying to to S. America in the next month or two, and the thought of getting on a plane in this day and time wasn't inspiring much confidence.

Side note question: are they still requiring a negative test to get on a flight back to the US, and does it have to be PCR or can it be antigen? I'm not terribly confident in the turnaround times possible there, haha.

My parents recently purchased tickets to Paris, this is the form they had to fill out.

 

[SN-A-C Orange]

I can buy that to a degree except previously infected people do not seem to be making up a large percentage of new infections even when the Delta Variant is significant. (Concur - True, from what I have seen. I suspect natural immunity is better and longer lasting. But that is unproven at this time. - SNAC)

Where I live they've detected Delta in wastewater for several months.... oddly long before anyone tested positive for it so asymptomatic and mildly symptomatic cases are still predominant. (Concur - Not a surprise to me - SNAC)

Our Health Dept reports are consistently showing about 12% of new confirmed cases as fully vaccinated and 1% previously infected (without knowing whether antibody memory "stuck"). (Concur - Natural immunity does better, as a rule - SNAC)

Thanks much for the very respectful response. This conversation usually breaks down to those in denial and those in crazed panic. Thanks for sharing without any of that.

Well reasoned on your part ... I am convinced that what you presented squares with the data. But getting everybody on the same page is going to take a lot of time, and ... due to blinders that have been established, misinformation, and political agendas and upcoming elections....it is going to be a good long while.
Frankly, it appears to me that the WH push to mandate vaccination (remember I willing signed up to be vaccinated with J&J) is an intentional polarizing maneuver and is not based on the science and data. Your thoughts?

 

[SN-A-C Orange]

iWave-R Air Ionization System Nu-Calgon

Apparently under pressure they took down their case study but the device still kills any virus that goes through it. Pretty simple concept. It is installed on the inlet of your HVAC. It ionizes the air between the two poles and robs anything that goes through of hydrogen.... thus killing it.

Just sorry there is not a way to give you 1K likes for this post. Thanks for posting postive steps to protecting people. Our church installed an Ionization System!!!

 

[Volprofch05]

I can buy that to a degree except previously infected people do not seem to be making up a large percentage of new infections even when the Delta Variant is significant.

Where I live they've detected Delta in wastewater for several months.... oddly long before anyone tested positive for it so asymptomatic and mildly symptomatic cases are still predominant.

Our Health Dept reports are consistently showing about 12% of new confirmed cases as fully vaccinated and 1% previously infected (without knowing whether antibody memory "stuck").

Thanks much for the very respectful response. This conversation usually breaks down to those in denial and those in crazed panic. Thanks for sharing without any of that.

I'll applaud the tone of this discussion as the constructive route to finding common ground or getting your point across. Disparaging or sniping others is never effective for debate, even if the topic is emotional.

Also, UT put a lot of effort into installing new HVAC equipment early on in all this. Many people seemed to scoff at that at the time, but hopefully they have now reconsidered that initial response.

 

[volwindy]

Good to know. It's likely I'll be flying to to S. America in the next month or two, and the thought of getting on a plane in this day and time wasn't inspiring much confidence.

Side note question: are they still requiring a negative test to get on a flight back to the US, and does it have to be PCR or can it be antigen? I'm not terribly confident in the turnaround times possible there, haha.

We went to 4 countries in Africa, and all checked for a PCR negative test. When we flew back to US, the airline asked to see our test before checking in for our flight. USA did not check for our test when we arrived like Africa did. So you have to pay attention to what both the country and the airline is requiring.

 

[tbh]

We went to 4 countries in Africa, and all checked for a PCR negative test. When we flew back to US, the airline asked to see our test before checking in for our flight. USA did not check for our test when we arrived like Africa did. So you have to pay attention to what both the country and the airline is requiring.

Good to know, thanks! I don't think Colombia is asking for any testing to enter, per se, however for the US...wasit only a PCR that they will accept or was an antigen test accepted as well?

 

[sjt18]

Well reasoned on your part ... I am convinced that what you presented squares with the data. But getting everybody on the same page is going to take a lot of time, and ... due to blinders that have been established, misinformation, and political agendas and upcoming elections....it is going to be a good long while.
Frankly, it appears to me that the WH push to mandate vaccination (remember I willing signed up to be vaccinated with J&J) is an intentional polarizing maneuver and is not based on the science and data. Your thoughts?

I think control is important to them and forced compliance. The left is not tolerant of dissent whatsoever.

I think there are a lot of narratives running and all of them have more to do with money, China, and politics than health. Hate to sound like a conspiracy theorist but I believe some solutions like air filtration and educating the public on viral load were avoided or suppressed because they threatened vaccine and treatment profits.

This is a better study of crony capitalism than pandemic response.

PS. A lot of the supposed conspiracy theories were right. It was a manufactured virus from a lab in Wuhan. The research was tied to NIH and Fauci. HCQ actually does help people if administered early.

Like you said though this was weaponized for political purposes and profit.

 

[volwindy]

Good to know, thanks! I don't think Colombia is asking for any testing to enter, per se, however for the US...wasit only a PCR that they will accept or was an antigen test accepted as well?

I read a lot of this on trip advisor Africa forums, and some were successful with antigen tests and some weren't. I think it depends on the agent you get. Unfortunately it's just not consistent and lack of understanding what is actually accepted. Heck some of my family returned without their test even being checked by the airline. We did PCR just to be on the safe side to get home.

 

[Vol knight]

Its sad when anyone gets fired, but when you have a mass epidemic in order to be successful you have to fight it with everything that you have. That is how
we eradicated smallpox and polio, everyone got vaccinated.

I'm sorry to break it to you, but there is no eradicating covid-19. This virus is more like the flu and not smallpox.

 

[MAD]

Just a heads up, several people have been discussing travel rules, I had shared a form earlier today about traveling to Paris, apparently that has changed a few hours ago. France has banned unvaccinated American travelers.

 

[tbh]

Just a heads up, several people have been discussing travel rules, I had shared a form earlier today about traveling to Paris, apparently that has changed a few hours ago. France has banned unvaccinated American travelers.

I have a feeling we'll start seeing more and more of the same from other nations soon. What I wonder is if/how a common proof of vaccination will arise. It almost seems as though the international airlines would be taking the lead on that, at least within their respective apps. The tricky part (or at least one of them) that sticks out to me, is verification...each nation has their own record-keeping system, if they have one, and some are more susceptible to fraud than others.

 

[volwindy]

Just a heads up, several people have been discussing travel rules, I had shared a form earlier today about traveling to Paris, apparently that has changed a few hours ago. France has banned unvaccinated American travelers.

Netherlands has recently also had made it hard for Americans to travel there. I feel like we made it in a small window before countries changing things again.