Coronavirus (No politics)

[TheVolsFrog]

Hey guess what...vaccinated people get Covid ALL the time! It does not stop you from getting it, only reduces symptoms. We could be at 100% and Evans likely would STILL have gotten it and still be out. See Lane Kiffin.

I can speak from experience. Vax and still caught it.

 

[IluvdoubleD's]

Some things are more important than sports. And many are not convinced these vaccinations are entirely safe. Their body, their decision

Ladies? You got anything to say about that?

 

[Vol Main]

LOL... and some people are just gullible, uncritical followers who are easily manipulated by fear narratives.

I have posted LOTS of reasons to not just give blind trust like you are doing. Watch Fauci's testimony and responses to Rand Paul some time. He didn't answer with "science"... he answered with "how dare you question me".

The government is paying about $25/dose for these vaccines. About 200 million Americans have taken them... roughly $12.5 billion in revenue to pharmaceutical companies that own most of the people making the decisions and putting out the narrative.... and now trying to FORCE people to take the vaccine.

If you have something specific I've said that you want to challenge then do. I'll post information from credible sources to back it up. Handwaving and condescending... "does not make" what you say "true".

No. The facts... make them true. The vaccines have harmed people. People have died from taking them. Have you really not seen that information? There is always a "weighing" of risks and the vaccines have a benefit of reducing severity, hospitalization, and death. But whether someone assumes the risk of taking it or not taking it is NOT YOUR BUSINESS. It is THEIR life and THEIR choice.

That's ridiculous. It truly is. You have no "right" to spread the flu, right? Hundreds of millions have died from it. FWIW, the vaccine isn't stopping people from getting it or spreading it. Those who have chosen to refuse the vaccine have taken their OWN life in their OWN hands. Those who have taken it have NOT protected others and may be MORE of a danger since they are more likely to have mild symptoms that they do not recognize as an illness or risk to others.

FWIW, I had Covid in January. It wasn't that bad. I got pneumonia and that was rough but I recovered fully. A couple of weeks ago I had an antibody test done to help me make my decision concerning vaccines. I have antibodies. Research both in the US and other countries has shown that those who have natural immunity get reinfected at a very low rate. An Israeli study suggests less than 1%. In my own community, about 13% of confirmed new cases have been fully vaccinated. Less than 1% have been reinfections. Natural immunity is superior to immunity derived from vaccinations. So even if your virtue signaling had any merit or rational basis at all... I would still be a VERY, VERY low risk to get the virus and virtually no danger to anyone else.

Good grief. We've gone from "Give me liberty or give me death" to "I'm scared of a virus that kills about .1% of those who contract it (and falling) so the rights of others must be surrendered?" That is truly pathetic.

I have a high opinion of MYSELF? Look in the mirror. I'm not the one engaging in this ridiculous virtue signaling and demanding that everyone do what I say. That would be YOU.

First of all, you do not get to say that I am giving "blind trust" unless you want to be called out as a liar. "Blind trust" is not my approach to this or any other issue. Your so-called reasons are a mix of concerns both real and unreal. If you are trying to make a distinction between the two, I'm not seeing the effort. And you need not tell me to watch what I have already watched nor to observe what I already observed. Dr. Fauci often speaks for good science, but he has been around the track enough to be self serving and slippery when it suits his purposes. I am not Dr. Fauci or a member of some sycophantic fan club, so you can drop that insinuation.

Pharmaceutical companies making a lot of money is hardly fresh news. The profits are a real concern, but they alone do not rebut or refute the safety and effectiveness of Covid vaccines. Nothing you say rebuts or refutes the points in my posts, which do not involve hand-waving. Arguing levels of immunity for vaccine versus having had the disease is not my purpose, nor is condescension, but allow me to ask if you wore a mask which limited the exposure to people around you. Despite your positive self image, statistics indicate that you infected how many people, who infected how many others, who infected how many others? What are the odds that someone became seriously ill from the chain of transmission which you passed on? Did any of them spend weeks slowly choking to death? Do you even care? Maybe you do; maybe you are withholding heartfelt concerns, but your position in this discussion is not "Give me liberty or give me death." It is give you liberty to give others death.

 

[sjt18]

Not taking a side here but I think the vaccines have been vetted better than any previous vaccine. Normally they make trials using small or even large groups of test cases for long periods of time. With the COVID vaccines over 50% of the total population (and a good percentage of the world) has been used for testing over a shorter period of time. With the exception of long term effects, I think it's passed. Still, no one should be mandated to take it.

Read the bottom paragraph. Notice that .002% of those who have taken the vaccine have died. Sounds OK, right? Well maybe not. A Stanford expert in medical statistics has calculated the IFR for those under 19 at .0027% up to .082% for those between 40-49. And these IFR estimates are conservative with the number of people who have had asymptomatic cases or who were not tested and confirmed. It could be lower.

Older folks have more risks. So you could say that the vaccine is "safer" than not... but for the large majority of people neither is a significant threat.

Over 7000 people dying in a vaccine trial...is troubling, no? And these are those who died immediately without knowing what long term impact people may have.

COVID-19 Vaccination

 

[howie87]

Covid cases still high in Knox county-- perhaps that's why people are bailing...View attachment 393027

Well, the Rands and Karens can stay home or listen in their cars wearing their masks if it bothers them...

 

[Vol Main]

But see here's the issue with the vaccine and your comment. It doesn't stop a person from getting it or passing it on and that's a problem, him taking the shot wasn't going to stop him from passing it along. At best it may have lessen him symptoms but if he has Covid and stays in close contact with someone for a period of time then the odds are the people he was around are going to catch it also. I know quite a few people who have had the shot and caught Covid, me being one of them.
I'm fine with it being a person's choice. If it was proven that the shot actually stopped people from passing it on then yeah I'd probably be more of the everyone needs to get this thing but as it stands now it may be making people more asymptomatic at best or lessening their symptoms.
I'm in the it's a personal choice camp, especially since there is no long term study on it.

Without denying or dodging your points, I want to add to them with something that affects them all. That is the degree of exposure. We should not be thinking or speaking in absolutes, because that is not what we are dealing with. The viral load of exposure has a lot to do with whether or not an infected person becomes non-symptomatic or seriously ill. I am talking about the intensity of exposure(viral parts per million in the air) and also the time of exposure(which could be fifteen minutes or fifteen days, etc.). A strong level of immunity is not a 100% shield. Thinking that vaccine or past infection is a 100% stopper is a bad mistake. That is not how this disease works.

 

[sjt18]

First of all, you do not get to say that I am giving "blind trust" unless you want to be called out as a liar.

Yeah. When you you give blind trust... you deserve to be called out for giving blind trust and especially after that sophistry you poured on me.

"Blind trust" is not my approach to this or any other issue. Your so-called reasons are a mix of concerns both real and unreal. If you are trying to make a distinction between the two, I'm not seeing the effort.

Again, if you want to challenge me on something then please do. I would rather be proven wrong than to be wrong... but I've been pretty careful as I've looked into this. I very seldom believe anyone without going to their references.

And you need not tell me to watch what I have already watched nor to observe what I already observed. Dr. Fauci often speaks for good science, but he has been around the track enough to be self serving and slippery when it suits his purposes. I am not Dr. Fauci or a member of some sycophantic fan club, so you can drop that insinuation.

But you believe the narrative that comes from him and the other "leaders"... so much so that you want the rights of others to decide for themselves denied.

Pharmaceutical companies making a lot of money is hardly fresh news. The profits are a real concern, but they alone do not rebut or refute the safety and effectiveness of Covid vaccines.

No. But they provide a very good basis for questioning the kind of bullying we're seeing.

Nothing you say rebuts or refutes the points in my posts, which do not involve hand-waving. Arguing levels of immunity for vaccine versus having had the disease is not my purpose, nor is condescension, but allow me to ask if you wore a mask which limited the exposure to people around you.

NO. And... that data is in now too. Masks did NOT prevent or mitigate the spread of Covid. I actually "followed the science" and had virus killing air filtration installed at my place of business. It is technology backed up by decades of transmission prevention on aircraft. We have had employees infected. We have had people in our plant who were infected. We have not had a single case of transmission at work while sister facilities that chose to "mask up" instead have had NUMEROUS cases transmitted at work.

My wife, son, and I caught Covid from my daughter. She works in a nursing home that followed CDC guidance to include wearing masks at all times to the letter. They've had multiple cases of transmission between their staff and from staff to residents.

Despite your positive self image,

LOL... when you have to resort to that kind of indirect insult to "win" your point... you have no point.

statistics indicate that you infected how many people, who infected how many others, who infected how many others?

When? My daughter found out on a Monday that coworkers had tested positive the previous week. She tested positive and had mild symptoms around Thursday... and unknowingly passed it on to the rest of us in the home. I developed symptoms on a Friday and didn't have contact with anyone else other than to have the test done. So very, very few people if any outside my home.

If anything the blame lies with those who claimed that "masks" would prevent the spread of Covid.

What are the odds that someone became seriously ill from the chain of transmission which you passed on?

Much less than a vaccinated person who does not recognize that they have Covid with mild symptoms and go about their business as usual. AFTER my infection... I am essentially ZERO risk of infecting anyone else.

Did any of them spend weeks slowly choking to death? Do you even care?

Do you? There is research prior to Covid showing that "leaky" vaccines like the current Covid vaccines contribute to the cultivation of more virulent strains of viruses. Would you like one of the dozens of links showing that research which is NOT tainted by anyone's Covid narrative? But you won't believe it regardless will you? You won't even consider facts inconvenient to what you've chosen to believe... instead you'll take shots at me and people like me.... and demand we sacrifice OUR rights to your opinion.

Maybe you do; maybe you are withholding real concerns, but your position in this discussion is not "Give me liberty or give me death." It is give you liberty to give others death.

BS. You really are full of yourself, aren't you? Your virtue signaling won't change anything. The risk to others is EXCEPTIONALLY low even without the vaccine. If you were as "boned up" on the stats as you seem to want to think you would know that. The current IFR estimates are around the same as for the flu. Covid spreads more readily than the flu so that presents an immediate problem. OTOH, those who get Covid appear to have lasting immunity. IOW's, the IFR will continue to go down as people attain natural immunity unless there are variants that breakthrough... possibly aided by your vaccine.

PS- we still do not have anything telling us what the vaccines may do to interfere with the vaccinated benefiting from their natural immunity after infection.

 

[chuckb1448]

So apparently I had covid last week. Someone at work was ill. I felt like I had a sinus infection a couple of days later. So I went home and got tested (last Wednesday).The next day she came back with a negative test. I stayed home the rest of the week with a fever. My symptoms subsided on Saturday (in response to an antibiotic my doctor prescribed). I assumed I had a sinus infection and went back to work yesterday. Why wouldn't I? Today I finally get the test back an it's positive. My doctor said they would have released me to go back the same day went back because I was past symptoms for 72 hours. My kid had symptoms over the weekend, but is fine now. My wife has them now. What a mess.

The symptoms come and go, such as the fever, which isn't normal. Your body gets a fever and holds it until you break it..... unless of course its synthetic

 

[chrismc1000]

He for sure is not helping the team if he is not playing. Vaccine are safe and effective Unfortunately, you can not ask those who have died fro the disease if they would want to get the vain now.\. However, there are many who stated in their last breath, that wished they had gotten the vaccine. Too were too late to make that lifesaving decision.

Go ask all the family members of the people that died from taking the vaccine if it was safe for the loved ones they lost. I'll wait

 

[chrismc1000]

This is flat out wrong. Joining a group means observing rules of the group, especially rules for protection of the others. Our university is not the wilds of Borneo. It is civilization. People who cannot act civilized do not belong.

You would have a point if it was a rule but it's not so...

 

[chrismc1000]

As a person who has had the shot. I can't blame someone for not wanting to take something new and let's face it, hasn't had years of study. Also the shot doesn't stop you from getting Covid or passing it along, that's my issue with mandates. There has also been plenty of people who have had the shot and died. I know one personally that passed.
So in the grand scheme as far as letting his team down. He could have got the shot, tested positive and still had to sit out if Knox HD is being 10day strict I'm not sure how it's a let down to the team either way unless UT and other schools say they're not testing anyone for it.

Facts but unfortunately common sense doesn't work for most on this site and you will be hated for what you said with some on here. Oh well just keep talking facts and let haters hate sir!

 

[sjt18]

Without denying or dodging your points, I want to add to them with something that affects them all. That is the degree of exposure. We should not be thinking or speaking in absolutes, because that is not what we are dealing with. The viral load of exposure has a lot to do with whether or not an infected person becomes non-symptomatic or seriously ill. I am talking about the intensity(viral parts per million in the air) and also the time of exposure. A strong level of immunity is not a 100% shield. Thinking that vaccine or past infection is a 100% stopper is a bad mistake. That is not how this disease works.

So far, the studies that have been made public RE natural immunity have shown that those who have maintained antibodies after recovery (some unknown % don't) do not get the virus again.

The local anecdote I pointed to earlier with about 500 confirmed cases now indicates a reinfection rate of no more than 1%. That matches an Israeli study of 7000 new Covid cases where 1% were reinfections. We cannot know if those people had immunity and suffered a breakthrough or did not attain immunity in the first place.

Viral load is an absolutely critical consideration... that was NOT a point of emphasis by the leaders you trust so much. It is precisely an understanding of that concept that convinced me to install $500 air filtration/6 tons of HVAC that had a case study showing 99.4% of Covid removed from an airliner size room after only 30 minutes. Had this rather than the ridiculous and ineffective "masking" been required of public businesses... we might have already been through it.

 

[chrismc1000]

So apparently I had covid last week. Someone at work was ill. I felt like I had a sinus infection a couple of days later. So I went home and got tested (last Wednesday).The next day she came back with a negative test. I stayed home the rest of the week with a fever. My symptoms subsided on Saturday (in response to an antibiotic my doctor prescribed). I assumed I had a sinus infection and went back to work yesterday. Why wouldn't I? Today I finally get the test back an it's positive. My doctor said they would have released me to go back the same day went back because I was past symptoms for 72 hours. My kid had symptoms over the weekend, but is fine now. My wife has them now. What a mess.

Hope your wife gets well. Yes this virus effects everyone differently but I don't wish it on anyone. For me it was a bit less of what you went through. My wife has had twice in a span of 2 months. I know of a lady through mutual friends she had it while in Europe and she nearly died or felt like she was about to die. Again no matter how severe or not severe it was for me or friends I don't wish it on anyone.

 

[chrismc1000]

I get your point that vaccinated individuals exposed to Covid can spread it without being symptomatic. Some actually do become ill, although a much smaller percentage require hospital care. But your point about no long term study seems overly negative. Millions of dosages have been administered, with a tiny fraction of a percent having any significant side effects. The messenger RNA vaccines are in the body for only a very short time. mRNA degrades quickly, a few hours to a few days. According to studies I've read, a reaction to such vaccines appear soon after they are taken, not months or years later. It is just not accurate to say that vaccines of that type have not been thoroughly studied, because they have, for years. By now, millions of people have taken it, so the numbers for these unique vaccines are far larger than a phase three trial. Over worked hospital staff appreciate your vaccination, because you might have required much more of their care without it, and they are really having a hard time.

You will not like my saying this, but controlling Covid involves more than the vaccine. The big picture includes masks. You can say that masks do not prevent the disease from spreading, and there will always be some guy out there arguing that, but the docs wear masks for a reason in the OR. They are effective in preventing exhaled breath from getting out and spreading infections. Water vapor in the breath which carries pathogens gets trapped in the mask. That is a widely accepted medical fact.

How can there be a long term study on something that has only been out for around a year? Are you stupid or just stupid?

 

[chrismc1000]

Read the bottom paragraph. Notice that .002% of those who have taken the vaccine have died. Sounds OK, right? Well maybe not. A Stanford expert in medical statistics has calculated the IFR for those under 19 at .0027% up to .082% for those between 40-49. And these IFR estimates are conservative with the number of people who have had asymptomatic cases or who were not tested and confirmed. It could be lower.

Older folks have more risks. So you could say that the vaccine is "safer" than not... but for the large majority of people neither is a significant threat.

Over 7000 people dying in a vaccine trial...is troubling, no? And these are those who died immediately without knowing what long term impact people may have.

COVID-19 Vaccination

Neither is a significant threat? So a 99.9xx survival rate virus is a significant threat? Since when? Has this virus killed 80 million people yet like the flu in the early 1900s? No? Wow ok so basically here is the deal right. You can die from many number of things in life at any given moment. Well hopefully you understand that. However it's more likely you will die from a car crash than you would this virus. Yet you drive or ride in a vehicle nearly everyday. So until you stop doing that then I don't wanna hear you cry over the vaccine

 

[JCHateSteve]

The symptoms come and go, such as the fever, which isn't normal. Your body gets a fever and holds it until you break it..... unless of course its synthetic

I had a fever for several days. The other symptoms were gone on Friday. But I haven't had anything since Saturday. All I know is my doctor said I was fine to go to work tomorrow. I guess the vax works.

 

[Vol Main]

So far, the studies that have been made public RE natural immunity have shown that those who have maintained antibodies after recovery (some unknown % don't) do not get the virus again.

The local anecdote I pointed to earlier with about 500 confirmed cases now indicates a reinfection rate of no more than 1%. That matches an Israeli study of 7000 new Covid cases where 1% were reinfections. We cannot know if those people had immunity and suffered a breakthrough or did not attain immunity in the first place.

Viral load is an absolutely critical consideration... that was NOT a point of emphasis by the leaders you trust so much. It is precisely an understanding of that concept that convinced me to install $500 air filtration/6 tons of HVAC that had a case study showing 99.4% of Covid removed from an airliner size room after only 30 minutes. Had this rather than the ridiculous and ineffective "masking" been required of public businesses... we might have already been through it.

I read conflict in your post which says those with natural immunity "do not get the virus again" and the statement that 1% of case studies in Israel are reinfections. Evidence after the first several months indicated that we should not rely on 100% immunity.

I thought early on that businesses should receive priority for installing filtration systems when the big money became available, and I was disappointed that they didn't. Air filtration systems were rarely even mentioned. Thank you for taking that initiative. We should speak more about compensation for such systems. It might seem too late, but it isn't. I was also disappointed that intensity and time of exposure was not emphasized, and it is also not too late for doing that. Well, it is too late for many people, but better late than never.

 

[JCHateSteve]

Hope your wife gets well. Yes this virus effects everyone differently but I don't wish it on anyone. For me it was a bit less of what you went through. My wife has had twice in a span of 2 months. I know of a lady through mutual friends she had it while in Europe and she nearly died or felt like she was about to die. Again no matter how severe or not severe it was for me or friends I don't wish it on anyone.

So far its been pretty mild. The wife and I are vaxed. The tiny HateSteve is to young.

 

[Vol Main]

How can there be a long term study on something that has only been out for around a year? Are you stupid or just stupid?

mRNA vaccines for corona viruses have been studied for many years. If you were at all familiar with mRNA vaccines, you might not feel the urge to react so spastically in this discussion.

 

[SN-A-C Orange]

Both those teams are reporting near or 100% vaxd. Break through cases are exceptionally rare, and are almost always due to other underlying conditions, like diabetes, immune deficiencies, or like being old.

Sorry ... but that sounds more like hype you have been hearing and less like factual data. But if Fauci said it, it must be true.
I will concede that more unvaxed folks are getting covid. However, Israel (has the highest vaccination % among countries vaccinating 12+) is struggling with covid cases, which is why they started boosters on July 30th.
So, I respectfully dispute exceptionally rare as a statistical truth. Note: I am not a doctor, did not sleep at a Holiday Inn last night, but I do read a lot ... and I am trying to keep up. J&J running around in my body.
Why Israel's latest COVID outbreak holds important lessons for Australia (posted today)
15 states are keeping COVID-19 breakthrough cases under wraps

 

[Regulator]

Do any of you think if the politicians would have stayed out of it, to an extent, that some would be more open to the vaccine? I've seen many people citing that it is so "politicized" that they question it etc. Just a question, not trying to rile anyone up on either side of the debate.

I had one patient straight up said to me “I’m a die hard Republican….and I guess I just might die hard” when I asked her if she’d gotten vaccinated (she hadn’t) and she wound up testing positive and got admitted for a couple days.

 

[GAVol]

I had one patient straight up said to me “I’m a die hard Republican….and I guess I just might die hard” .

There are plenty of reasons to be hesitant about a vaccine. Political ideology might be the worst one I can think of.

 

[VoLBall86]

So it’s his fault for getting sick? GTFOH!

Not what I said. If getting a shot to prevent illness AND make it so your entire 60+man roster doesn't have to forfeit would you? Oh wait, are you one of those anti-vaxxers with information bias?
Because then your comment might offer more context

 

[jarnol32]

Not what I said. If getting a shot to prevent illness AND make it so your entire 60+man roster doesn't have to forfeit would you? Oh wait, are you one of those anti-vaxxers with information bias?
Because then your comment might offer more context

Fyp. Just like Tiyon Evans my Health care choices are non of your concern.

 

[1967vol]

Fyp. Just like Tiyon Evans my Health care choices are non of your concern.

If you existed in a vacuum you would be right. but you don't and your choices can affect others.