4-2-5 Defense

#1
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lukeneyland

God Save the Heup
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#1
I’m a football nerd and love to doodle offensive plays and things of that nature. I’m not very smart or anything I just do it for fun. Anyway the more I think it seems that a 4-2-5 defense might be the most optimal defense in the modern game. I’ve seen the Patriots do a 5-1-5 once and it was fantastic. In my opinion the 4-2-5 would reduce the amount of talent needed to play good defense in this era. I think with a decent defensive line and competent safeties a defense with mediocre linebackers and decent corners could really punch above it’s weight. I’m interested to here what y’all think.
 
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#2
#2
lukeneyland said:
I’m a football nerd and love to doodle offensive plays and things of that nature. I’m not very smart or anything I just do it for fun. Anyway the more I think it seems that a 4-2-5 defense might be the most optimal defense in the modern game. I’ve seen the Patriots do a 5-1-5 once and it was fantastic. In my opinion the 4-2-5 would reduce the amount of talent needed to play good defense in this era. I think with a decent defensive line and competent safeties a defense with mediocre linebackers and decent corners could really punch above it’s weight. I’m interested to here what y’all think.
Click to expand...
If I recall correctly John Jancek ran a 4-2-5 defense and before he left as DC he had some games where the defense was pretty salty and kept us in some games. I think that side of the ball should be improved because this defense allows the players to react faster due to not having to read as much.
 
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#3
#3
lukeneyland said:
I’m a football nerd and love to doodle offensive plays and things of that nature. I’m not very smart or anything I just do it for fun. Anyway the more I think it seems that a 4-2-5 defense might be the most optimal defense in the modern game. I’ve seen the Patriots do a 5-1-5 once and it was fantastic. In my opinion the 4-2-5 would reduce the amount of talent needed to play good defense in this era. I think with a decent defensive line and competent safeties a defense with mediocre linebackers and decent corners could really punch above it’s weight. I’m interested to here what y’all think.
Click to expand...
It's a passing game now.
The game of football is mostly about stopping the pass

Need guys to get pressure and need guys to.cover.

I think 3-3-5 is the best most versatile defense.
Because those 3 LBs can go anywhere and mess up anything and you still have 5 other guys covering.

They're both very similar.
 
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#4
#4
LittleVol said:
It's a passing game now.
The game of football is mostly about stopping the pass

Need guys to get pressure and need guys to.cover.

I think 3-3-5 is the best most versatile defense.
Because those 3 LBs can go anywhere and mess up anything and you still have 5 other guys covering.

They're both very similar.
Click to expand...
With a 3-3-5 I would worry about the down linemen not getting enough pressure. A more aggressive and athletic offensive line might be able to get off the line better but other than that the two are similar.
 
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#5
#5
LittleVol said:
It's a passing game now.
The game of football is mostly about stopping the pass

Need guys to get pressure and need guys to.cover.

I think 3-3-5 is the best most versatile defense.
Because those 3 LBs can go anywhere and mess up anything and you still have 5 other guys covering.

They're both very similar.
Click to expand...
Is anybody really running the Stack in the NFL? Maybe in "3rd and a bunch" situations? I just don't see it..... but it's not my way to look in depth at the NFL sets. I'd think the speed routes and timing in the big game would hurt you.

I believe Heupel would destroy a 3-3-5 because tempo makes communication hard and critical for the defense.
 
#6
#6
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
Is anybody really running the Stack in the NFL? Maybe in "3rd and a bunch" situations? I just don't see it..... but it's not my way to look in depth at the NFL sets. I'd think the speed routes and timing in the big game would hurt you.

I believe Heupel would destroy a 3-3-5 because tempo makes communication hard and critical for the defense.
Click to expand...

Still need to have Jimmy's and Joe's with any defense.

Clemson and Ohio State run a ton on 3-3-5.
 
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#8
#8
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
Is anybody really running the Stack in the NFL? Maybe in "3rd and a bunch" situations? I just don't see it..... but it's not my way to look in depth at the NFL sets. I'd think the speed routes and timing in the big game would hurt you.

I believe Heupel would destroy a 3-3-5 because tempo makes communication hard and critical for the defense.
Click to expand...
Tulsa exclusively runs a 3-3-5 and gave Heupel fits last season…to the tune of snapping UCF’s 21 game winning streak. I think it’s why we heard tires being kicked on Zach Arnett, who’s maybe the best current 3-3-5 DC.
 
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#9
#9
butchna said:
Tulsa exclusively runs a 3-3-5 and gave Heupel fits last season…to the tune of snapping UCF’s 21 game winning streak. I think it’s why we heard tires being kicked on Zach Arnett, who’s maybe the best current 3-3-5 DC.
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I'll go back and see if I can find that game. Thx. I'm always up to watch and learn but I think the 4-2 is more forgiving.
 
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#11
#11
butchna said:
Tulsa exclusively runs a 3-3-5 and gave Heupel fits last season…to the tune of snapping UCF’s 21 game winning streak. I think it’s why we heard tires being kicked on Zach Arnett, who’s maybe the best current 3-3-5 DC.
Click to expand...

Negative. That would be the current DC at Notre Dame Marcus Freeman
 
#12
#12
Cpatter4 said:
If I recall correctly John Jancek ran a 4-2-5 defense and before he left as DC he had some games where the defense was pretty salty and kept us in some games. I think that side of the ball should be improved because this defense allows the players to react faster due to not having to read as much.
Click to expand...

I always felt that Lyle Allen butt poked himself by removing John Jancek and his S&C coach (Dave Lawson?). His teams showed an immediate performance decline when he did.
 
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#13
#13
lukeneyland said:
I’m a football nerd and love to doodle offensive plays and things of that nature. I’m not very smart or anything I just do it for fun. Anyway the more I think it seems that a 4-2-5 defense might be the most optimal defense in the modern game. I’ve seen the Patriots do a 5-1-5 once and it was fantastic. In my opinion the 4-2-5 would reduce the amount of talent needed to play good defense in this era. I think with a decent defensive line and competent safeties a defense with mediocre linebackers and decent corners could really punch above it’s weight. I’m interested to here what y’all think.
Click to expand...
I think the 4-2-5 is the defense we will play most of the time, especially in passing situations. It will require fast strong players with some big space eaters in the middle. It would also require some athletic length and size at the DE positions.
 
#15
#15
lukeneyland said:
I’m a football nerd and love to doodle offensive plays and things of that nature. I’m not very smart or anything I just do it for fun. Anyway the more I think it seems that a 4-2-5 defense might be the most optimal defense in the modern game. I’ve seen the Patriots do a 5-1-5 once and it was fantastic. In my opinion the 4-2-5 would reduce the amount of talent needed to play good defense in this era. I think with a decent defensive line and competent safeties a defense with mediocre linebackers and decent corners could really punch above it’s weight. I’m interested to here what y’all think.
Click to expand...

Keep it between the 20s, eliminate chunk plays, I am no DC, but this team can do this.
 
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#16
#16
5-1-5 seems to be the best. Linebackers don’t do anything anyway, so toss 1 in there to keep someone on scholly. Force 1-1 matchups with the o-line equaling the total d linemen, 5 DBs allows us to do a man d against a 5 wide with the loan linebacker either blitzing to gain an attacking advantage or sitting in a zone in the middle of the field to help with the slants

/blue
 
#17
#17
lukeneyland said:
I’m a football nerd and love to doodle offensive plays and things of that nature. I’m not very smart or anything I just do it for fun. Anyway the more I think it seems that a 4-2-5 defense might be the most optimal defense in the modern game. I’ve seen the Patriots do a 5-1-5 once and it was fantastic. In my opinion the 4-2-5 would reduce the amount of talent needed to play good defense in this era. I think with a decent defensive line and competent safeties a defense with mediocre linebackers and decent corners could really punch above it’s weight. I’m interested to here what y’all think.
Click to expand...

The only drawback I see is the likely hood of a offensive being able to get more yards beyond the LOF before contact/tackle by backs. It will take a couple of extra steps for d-backs to get to the point of contact as apposed to 3-4 LBs who are for the most part on the LOF as the play starts.
 
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#18
#18
I would be uneasy with only 3 DL, unless the 3 LBs included Byron Young and/or Roman Harrison at "OLB." Then I could expect more disruption in the backfield.
 
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#20
#20
VFLCodyGBO said:
5-1-5 seems to be the best. Linebackers don’t do anything anyway, so toss 1 in there to keep someone on scholly. Force 1-1 matchups with the o-line equaling the total d linemen, 5 DBs allows us to do a man d against a 5 wide with the loan linebacker either blitzing to gain an attacking advantage or sitting in a zone in the middle of the field to help with the slants

/blue
Click to expand...
I was watching some film of the rams and pats and that’s exactly what they did for large parts of the game
 
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#23
#23
VFLCodyGBO said:
5-1-5 seems to be the best. Linebackers don’t do anything anyway, so toss 1 in there to keep someone on scholly. Force 1-1 matchups with the o-line equaling the total d linemen, 5 DBs allows us to do a man d against a 5 wide with the loan linebacker either blitzing to gain an attacking advantage or sitting in a zone in the middle of the field to help with the slants

/blue
Click to expand...

If I’m being honest, I used to play a lot of this against spread offenses on the high school level. It prevents them from having any bubbles to run the ball at, and then we’d play banjo 1 on the outside with the Lb matching the back. Against the run or 5 step game it’s solid and banjo helps a lot with some of the quick game you’ll see (bubble/slant for example).

The biggest issue was when they’d go back away from trips and try to run speed option out the back door (the bear fronts oldest known weakness).
 
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#25
#25
If we can’t cover the slant, aint nun of ‘em gonna work!
 
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