Recruiting Forum Football Talk III

[Weezer]

Calvin Johnson sadly went to Detroit which also helped shelf Barry Sanders in his prime. Sometimes being overworked and underappreciated wears you out...and if you're making the kind of money they were why keep taking the bashing for a franchise that clearly doesn't put effort into trying to be a SB caliber team.

That's what's so sad. Potentially two of the greatest players ever, and both retired early because of playing in Detroit. It kind of makes me feel like Detroit should be stripped of their franchise. When you're so bad you forced two such players into early retirement.....I feel like they robbed NFL fans to be honest.

 

[SweetasSoda]

First practice report.

Austin Price for the entire Spring and Summer.

There certainly hasn't been anything about him being inaccurate. Frankly I think the poster I quoted just pulled that out because he's a mobile QB and assumed he can't throw an accurate ball.

There isn't some sweeping consensus, but let's not pretend we aren't all extrapolating here. Just like Jalin Hyatt dropping two balls in three days means he is a head case now and can't catch anything lol.

Hmmmm... I do remember AP talking about him leading in the spring. Then HB had the spring game. I don't really remember people talking about him being accurate. Seems like I have heard he throws high. Mostly only heard about Milron this summer. Just wondering where you heard what you heard.

As far as Jalin, was expecting him to take the next leap but only heard about drops. One of which had him doing pushups. Someone answered though with catching 20 yard passes is different than 7 yard slants which makes sense.

 

[Nash_Vol97]

So, car payments for life?

Yup, one car payment for life. FIL had an older Acura from the early 90s that he took care of and only used for work commute. Bought it in cash when he got it and drove it into the ground. So they only had that lease payment which they always got discounted because they went to the same dealer and same salesperson for over 20+ years.

 

[Weezer]

I mean Calvin only played 9 seasons as well...but his career stats are laughable compared to Rice. You can HALF Rice's career down the middle and have 2 of Calvin Johnson's career numbers...that's flipping insane. I'm just happy I was able to watch Rice in his prime for a few years, and to me the closest WR to being that dominate has been Moss. Calvin was special though, but he was also benefiting from volume, dude only had 2 seasons with less than 137 targets.

And it's not like Rice was deadweight and just trying to pad stats (like Emmitt Smith in his last few seasons). Only twice did Rice not have 800 yards receiving and one of those he only caught 7 balls cause he was hurt, the other came in his last season at 42 when he played for 2 different teams. And even then had he gotten more targets he probably could have hit 800 receiving yards.

You also need to look at the teams each had, and who they had throwing to them. I love Jerry Rice, even tho I grew up a Cowboys fan, but he benefitted from having Joe Montana and Steve Young throwing to him.

 

[Nash_Vol97]

Has anyone checked on Atlanta Vol?

 

[MoCo_Vol]

Surely you are capable of seeing beyond total career numbers when discussing who the best WR is, right? You can't really be missing the topic of "who is the best at his position" vs "who had the greatest career" that badly?

If you're not even in the top 30 for your career in ANY of the major categories then you're not in the debate.

Calvin had 3 seasons with 1400+ yards, and just 2 seasons with 90+ receptions, only caught 15 or more TDs once in his career.
Rice had 6 seasons with 1400+ yards, and 6 seasons with 90+ receptions, and he caught 15 or more TDs 5 times in his career.

Dude played through 3 decades....without the God given freak physical talent that guys like TO, Calvin, and Moss were given and none of them were able to do it at his level for as long.

 

[butchna]

You also need to look at the teams each had, and who they had throwing to them. I love Jerry Rice, even tho I grew up a Cowboys fan, but he benefitted from having Joe Montana and Steve Young throwing to him.

Easier to throw to someone who dominates physically and sheer force of will. They might’ve benefitted?

 

[ndubvols]

I think Hyatt is more of a project than people realized, and he spent his first year here not really getting great coaching.

Velus Jones Jr. should be the stud WR we see break out in this offense this year. Feel like Hyatt and a few others could start to blossom later in the year though. I just hope Payton gives us something.

I’m not quite as high on our WR corps as most in here. A lot of talent, but no real experience. Same goes for the qb and rb rooms, which is probably going to lead to a very inconsistent offense. I think they’ll be spurts where we look great, combined with a lot of 3 and outs

I hope Velus breaks out, just not too many 5th/6th? year seniors having breakout years.

 

[MoCo_Vol]

You also need to look at the teams each had, and who they had throwing to them. I love Jerry Rice, even tho I grew up a Cowboys fan, but he benefitted from having Joe Montana and Steve Young throwing to him.

Rice only played with Montana for 5 seasons. I mean he went to the SB with 3 different QBs and won rings with Young & Montana.

 

[nicksjuzunk]

I don't think I can afford Nick's expertise tbh that's one of the reasons I haven't reached out lol

I assume you probably couldn’t. I still invited you to reach out. I can provide some value even if you are not a client

 

[jave36]

If you're not even in the top 30 for your career in ANY of the major categories then you're not in the debate.

Calvin had 3 seasons with 1400+ yards, and just 2 seasons with 90+ receptions, only caught 15 or more TDs once in his career.
Rice had 6 seasons with 1400+ yards, and 6 seasons with 90+ receptions, and he caught 15 or more TDs 5 times in his career.

Dude played through 3 decades....without the God given freak physical talent that guys like TO, Calvin, and Moss were given and none of them were able to do it at his level for as long.

That doesn't make him a better player. Calvin chose to stop playing football way, way earlier than even the average player. You can't just look at total career stats, you have to actually take context and complexity and nuance into consideration instead of looking at a stat sheet and making your conclusion. If you had to choose one player for one season to be on your team, you'd be crazy to just take the people who had the most career stats. There are plenty of QBs who have been better at the position than Brady, doesn't mean their career stats are better than his.

 

[Volitaire]

I’m not quite as high on our WR corps as most in here. A lot of talent, but no real experience. Same goes for the qb and rb rooms, which is probably going to lead to a very inconsistent offense. I think they’ll be spurts where we look great, combined with a lot of 3 and outs

I hope Velus breaks out, just not too many 5th/6th? year seniors having breakout years.

Cheney and Pruitt are no longer leading an inept offense…

 

[butchna]

That doesn't make him a better player. Calvin chose to stop playing football way, way earlier than even the average player. You can't just look at total career stats, you have to actually take context and complexity and nuance into consideration instead of looking at a stat sheet and making your conclusion. If you had to choose one player for one season to be on your team, you'd be crazy to just take the people who had the most career stats. There are plenty of QBs who have been better at the position than Brady, doesn't mean their career stats are better than his.

Prime Jerry Rice? I take him 100% of the time.

 

[Catbone]

I assume you probably couldn’t. I still invited you to reach out. I can provide some value even if you are not a client

Okay, I do really appreciate it. I'll send you an email

 

[reVOLution33]

First practice report.

Austin Price for the entire Spring and Summer.

There certainly hasn't been anything about him being inaccurate. Frankly I think the poster I quoted just pulled that out because he's a mobile QB and assumed he can't throw an accurate ball.

There isn't some sweeping consensus, but let's not pretend we aren't all extrapolating here. Just like Jalin Hyatt dropping two balls in three days means he is a head case now and can't catch anything lol.

Lol firstly AP has only said he is the most consistent "Steady Eddy" not accuracy wise.

Secondly, I have watched Hookers previous film with VT along with OW game film and he is basically a more mobile JG. Not accurate outside an 8 yard pass.

 

[bignewt]

I'm 6'4 180 I don't need much running me thinks

Cardio is more than just cutting weight.

 

[JoeyVols32]

That doesn't make him a better player. Calvin chose to stop playing football way, way earlier than even the average player. You can't just look at total career stats, you have to actually take context and complexity and nuance into consideration instead of looking at a stat sheet and making your conclusion. If you had to choose one player for one season to be on your team, you'd be crazy to just take the people who had the most career stats. There are plenty of QBs who have been better at the position than Brady, doesn't mean their career stats are better than his.

Moss >>>> Johnson

 

[MoCo_Vol]

I’m not quite as high on our WR corps as most in here. A lot of talent, but no real experience. Same goes for the qb and rb rooms, which is probably going to lead to a very inconsistent offense. I think they’ll be spurts where we look great, combined with a lot of 3 and outs

I hope Velus breaks out, just not too many 5th/6th? year seniors having breakout years.

I agree, I think the RB room though will "show up" first. There is a lot of variety of talent in that group. Wright shows up first day on campus and is one of the fastest dude's on the team, he's got all the potential in the world to be a beast. Small looked pretty good in his limited action. Still got Whitehead and Hodge who we've not seen yet cause of injuries. Not to mention a monster in Beckwith. Also Evans coming in as one of our highest rated recruits from last class.

The offense will have plenty of opportunity for the WRs, and it'll come down to seeing the guys that take advantage really showing out. I mean we've not seen Velus get more than 25 receptions in a season yet. I think with the volume increase he's just too talented not to have a breakout year, doesn't mean he'll have 1k+ and 10 TDs or anything...but hell 400+ yards would be breakout for what he's done thus far.

I am worried about WRs the most though...our upperclassmen aren't exactly returning a ton of production in Keyton/Tillman and Payton is a new face.

Right now I'd rate our Offensive groups like this:

OL - despite losing Trey & Wanya ya return Cade, Carvin, Wright, Calbert, Spraggins etc. with one of the most proven of our positional coaches teaching them.
TEs - Freak talent/size, production, good mix of veterans and young bloods and another great positional coach
RBs - I reallllly think Mack is a special coach and I think the RB position benefits more from pure talent/speed than any other group so despite a lack of experience I love the depth and variety of talent in this group
QBs - I mean we have no one proven and two of the guys competing spent their careers unable to win jobs at other P5 schools...I think they have the best coaching available but will it click this year or next for some of these guys?
WRs - I mean we return guys who for their career at UT (combined) have less than 60 receptions...and it's a new style of offense with a new positional coach who is a bit less experienced that's new to this offense/staff. Not to mention no real built-in rapport with any of the QBs

 

[VolsDoc81TX]

The v6 is cute till you hear and drive the V8. Then you want the 392 then after that you would cut off a toe for the Hellcat. Its a slippery slope.

I would cut off a leg for a Hellcat. Not my leg, but definitely a leg…

 

[MoCo_Vol]

Prime Jerry Rice? I take him 100% of the time.

The scary thing is Rice tore his ACL at 35 after having some of his best seasons of his career. He doesn't miss that year and stays healthy and he may have went over 25k yards.

We DO have hindsight with the discussion though and it's pointless to ignore it because of how physically gifted Calvin was. If you put them in the same combine without knowing what they can/were cable of doing in the NFL then sure Calvin is probably getting picked over Rice...but that's just based purely on measurables, which to me seems even more pointless than taking into account actual results.

I'd take Reggie White over Clowney all day as a pass rusher... But one is a 6'6 260 4.5s guy with a 37" vertical, so on paper he looks the freaking part far more than White did.

 

[NMVol]

Yes!!! Hope for the best but do not lace your shoes strings with hopium!!!!!

 

[NMVol]

Doesn’t require a contrarian skillset. Rice lapped all others.

Plus farts in your skillset is not what the man said.

 

[butchna]

The scary thing is Rice tore his ACL at 35 after having some of his best seasons of his career. He doesn't miss that year and stays healthy and he may have went over 25k yards.

We DO have hindsight with the discussion though and it's pointless to ignore it because of how physically gifted Calvin was. If you put them in the same combine without knowing what they can/were cable of doing in the NFL then sure Calvin is probably getting picked over Rice...but that's just based purely on measurables, which to me seems even more pointless than taking into account actual results.

I'd take Reggie White over Clowney all day as a pass rusher... But one is a 6'6 260 4.5s guy with a 37" vertical, so on paper he looks the freaking part far more than White did.

Sure Al Toon and Eddie Brown outran him at the Combine and were selected before him. Who? Exactly.

 

[butchna]

Plus farts in your skillset is not what the man said.

 

[MoCo_Vol]

I mean it's still subjective, part of the beauty of sports.

I'd take Randy Moss every time as my #1 WR pick. But that in no way means I'm saying Moss is BETTER than Rice.

Just like I'd take Peyton as my #1 QB, in no way is that me saying he's better than Montana or Brady or Rodgers etc. it's just don't ask who -I- would pick and then argue that I'm wrong about MY opinion, cause end of the day I'm not changing it.