Coronavirus (No politics)

[utchs81]

I didn’t say asymptomatic did I ?. People are still getting it snd having symptoms even after the “vaccine”.

Notice I said should be which means it would be the more appropriate adjective given the context. Sorry if that was unclear.

 

[sjt18]

The vaccine has been very effective, I have lost count of how many people I know who have gotten COVID after getting the vaccine.

Did you mean to say it has not been very effective?

I get a weekly report from our county health department. We recently had a "spike" in cases. So far all of the people who were hospitalized were not vaccinated. About 10% in my anecdote had been vaccinated. Other counties near me though report about 50%.

Here's the kicker. ZERO people who previously had the virus have been reinfected in my county. Naturally acquired immunity appears to be more effective than any of the vaccines.... of course those with friends in high places like Fauci et al cannot make money from natural immunity... only vaccines.

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

Fair enough on the risks, skepticism, and your acceptance of it. As for the last part, I think your point is that you not getting the vaccine has nothing to do with YOU not caring about others. I never argued against that. I can share my viewpoint without implying that you don't care about others. If that's what you took from it, then that's a bit of a defensive response. I don't think I've attacked you in any way. I'm not Newt...I would rather be wrong and hope that this variant somehow doesn't spread like crazy and kill a lot of people.

You're not attacking me. You've been fine. It just has been the usual argument from some. It started with masks and then it moved to the vaccine.

 

[sjt18]

The size of the populations of both of those groups is relevant. Disregarding that is either ignorant or disingenuous. Basically, a vaccinated person has much less of a chance of being in the hospital than an unvaccinated person

That is what has been reported. Unfortunately, those pushing the vaccines and making these reports have demonstrated they cannot be trusted to report the whole truth.

In this case, they are not reporting the efficacy of the immunity acquired from having had the virus.

 

[lukeneyland]

Yes. Why are they pushing the shot? They told us from jump that young people weren't affected by covid. NOW, they want to Jab from 6 months & Up! The goalposts keep moving. Take your Zinc, Vitamin D, C, E, And an ionophore to get the zinc inside the cell (Quinine, Quercetin, Green Tea) and you will have no issues with covid. There is more here than a Vaccine to keep us from covid. Lots More.

It’s really unfortunate that people have made this ideological. I’m not anti vaccine, maybe for some demographics it makes sense. Just not young healthy people

 

[Tennessee Golfer]

it is soooooo rare to test positive if you have been vaxxed. much safer than not being vaxxed at all.

Weren’t the two US gymnasts that are currently quarantined and most of the NC State baseball players that tested positive vaccinated?

 

[Firebirdparts]

Not one bit surprised. I figured it was impossible.

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

Example of conflicting reports:

Horowitz: Israeli government data shows natural immunity from infection much stronger than vaccine-induced immunity

"data showing that the resurgence of COVID infections in Israel is being driven almost exclusively by those who never had prior infection – whether they are vaccinated or not. In fact, 40% of the 7,700 new cases since May 1 in this very heavily tested and traced country were among those who were fully vaccinated.


With a total of 835,792 Israelis known to have recovered from the virus, the 72 instances of reinfection amount to 0.0086% of people who were already infected with COVID.

“By contrast, Israelis who were vaccinated were 6.72 times more likely to get infected after the shot than after natural infection, with over 3,000 of the 5,193,499, or 0.0578%, of Israelis who were vaccinated getting infected in the latest wave.”

If this is true... tell me again why I should get the vax when I've already had the virus?

 

[sjt18]

Sorry your friend died.
I’ve not seen one reputable medical professional say it’s a bad idea to get the vaccines. Ignore the data if it makes you feel better.

Those professionals are wholly dependent on the information they get from CDC, NIH, and others... and those organizations have earned the reputation for being unreliable. They do not deal with the data honestly or report it completely.

Whatever you believe of HCQ, it is a relatively benign drug used safely for decades. There was no good reason to ban it as a treatment for Covid. Some countries like Switzerland posted data suggesting it helped.

The numbers were never truthful because they were never apples to apples when compared to other virus mortality rates.

There is "subtle" propaganda going on right now. The same people feeding those professionals information are suggesting that the vaccines will produce long term and possibly permanent immunity. They're pushing the vaccines... at a significant profit for powerful political and business interests. The same people are whispering the PROOF that post-infection immunity has durability. When they do report it most are only willing to project it lasts as long as has already been objectively proven. One of the last studies I saw said that it could last 11 months.... but only because it had already lasted 11 months in their study group.

So conjecture is good enough for the vaccine but only objective data can prove naturally acquired immunity?

That is why their information cannot be trusted. They push narratives at the expense of the truth.

 

[Weezer]

I believe it was leveraged as a political thing by right-wing media spreading false information and cramming people full of conspiracies about the govt wanting to inject people with an experiment.

It was first leveraged as something to attack Trump on since many didn't care that he was an obnoxious ass hat. The economy was booming, and people were okay with him as long as that was the case. Corona gave the left the opening they needed to defeat him.

Now both the left and right are using it to attack each other.

And while I agree there is some false information out there, it's not untrue to call the vaccines an "experiment". That's actually factual. They were pushed through for emergency use without trials.

 

[K-town Vol Fan]

They were pushed through for emergency use without trials.

False

 

[utvolpj]

False

Without adequate trials

 

[05_never_again]

I will say that is is really odd that vaccine resistance has morphed from a conceit of wealthy, white liberal enclaves like SoCal, Seattle, and the Twin Cities to a conceit of the Trump wing of the Republican party. You used to never find an American who touted Andrew Wakefield without also supporting Obama. The anti-vaxx movement shifted hard right in a very short amount of time.

The anti-vaxxer movement exists on both the far left and far right, but for totally different reasons. It persists on the far left as an anti-big pharma thing (piggybacking on the progressive ethos that large corporations are bad). It persists on the right because a Republican was President when COVID first emerged.

It's kind of an interesting case study in Horseshoe Theory - the far left and the far right actually believe some of the same things politically, and have a propensity to gravitate towards some of the same concepts (authoritarianism, racism, etc.) but for totally different reasons. I think it is analogous to what you see a lot in everyday life where people who have similar personalities, especially if they are both strong-willed, tend to dislike each other despite having a lot in common.

 

[Weezer]

False

Not false. I can add the word adequate like PJ if you want, but there were no long term trials that normally accompany approval. There wasn't time.

 

[Bloodrunsorange27]

Because we care about our grandparents whose odds are nowhere near 98%.

You can still get COVID and give it to other people even if you're vaccinated. It doesn't prevent either of those things from happening.

 

[K-town Vol Fan]

Not false. I can add the word adequate like PJ if you want, but there were no long term trials that normally accompany approval. There wasn't time.

But there were trials.

Pfizer and BioNTech Conclude Phase 3 Study of COVID-19 Vaccine Candidate, Meeting All Primary Efficacy Endpoints | pfpfizeruscom

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2034577

 

[VOLINVONORE]

Right! The number is actually closer to 12,000. They won't acknowledge the deaths, that would likely mess up the Shot for ALL plan. I know of 5 vax deaths. Funny how the CDC wanted all deaths possible classified as Covid, but the deaths from the Shot------"No evidence death was caused by the vaccine". Double standard; anyone? You shouldn't be able to have it both ways!! Some on VN need to study up; instead of taking Fauci's word for everything. He has Lied numerous times, He OWNS several patents related to the vaccines. No conflict of interest? Geeze people; stop surface skimming!

You should be ashamed to use John Wards name spreading all your nonsense.

 

[K-town Vol Fan]

Without adequate trials

Thats your opinion. The FDA obviously felt they were adequate.

 

[bamawriter]

The anti-vaxxer movement exists on both the far left and far right, but for totally different reasons. It persists on the far left as an anti-big pharma thing (piggybacking on the progressive ethos that large corporations are bad). It persists on the right because a Republican was President when COVID first emerged.

I actually noticed some of my farther right friends starting to fall into the anti-vaxx camp in the 2 to 4 years before Covid. That's anecdotal of course, but I think there was a shift happening before Covid, and Covid just hastened the process.

 

[bamawriter]

You can still get COVID and give it to other people even if you're vaccinated. It doesn't prevent either of those things from happening.

That's true. But the vaccines make contracting and transmitting considerably less likely.

 

[utvolpj]

Thats your opinion. The FDA obviously felt they were adequate.

For emergency use only

 

[Weezer]

But there were trials.

Pfizer and BioNTech Conclude Phase 3 Study of COVID-19 Vaccine Candidate, Meeting All Primary Efficacy Endpoints | pfpfizeruscom

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2034577

The approval process was expedited out of necessity meaning the typical trials required for approval were not completed, correct?

Believe what you want, but adequate trials were not completed. Not out of maliciousness, but out of expediency.

 

[MAD]

Example of conflicting reports:

Horowitz: Israeli government data shows natural immunity from infection much stronger than vaccine-induced immunity

"data showing that the resurgence of COVID infections in Israel is being driven almost exclusively by those who never had prior infection – whether they are vaccinated or not. In fact, 40% of the 7,700 new cases since May 1 in this very heavily tested and traced country were among those who were fully vaccinated.


With a total of 835,792 Israelis known to have recovered from the virus, the 72 instances of reinfection amount to 0.0086% of people who were already infected with COVID.

“By contrast, Israelis who were vaccinated were 6.72 times more likely to get infected after the shot than after natural infection, with over 3,000 of the 5,193,499, or 0.0578%, of Israelis who were vaccinated getting infected in the latest wave.”

If this is true... tell me again why I should get the vax when I've already had the virus?

There’s no need for data, its the same with TB, but if you get it you might die.
It’s the unvaccinated that are being hospitalized, having a lot of long term illness and death.

 

[LWSVOL]

People that call for everyone to get the vaccine are blind to those with health problems that preclude them getting the vaccine which leaves them at risk to getting COVID from others. The others could be people that have been vaccinated or those that have not been vaccinated.

I have a real life example of millions of other people in this situation.

My daughter has MS. Her Docs held her off the first couple of months when vaccines were being released but then told her they felt she could get it. She had violate reactions with heart rate jumping to 200, breathing problems and hot flashes. She was in the ER twice in the first 10 days after the shot. She continues to have similar symptoms but not where near as bad as the first 10 days. Her Docs told her not to take the second shot and have no idea how protected she may be.

The problem for her is that her husband is starting back to work in the office 5 days a week. Her son is starting back in school 5 days a week. The obvious risk is they could contract the virus in these settings, they are vaccinated, and bring it home to her. Since a year ago March she has spent 99.5% of her time confined to home to avoid the risk of getting COVID. Now that risk comes in everyday.

So, for those pushing the shot, everyone is not refusing it due to POLITICS. There are health reasons and may be many other reasons that people don't get vaccinated. Try to look at things from different views, not just your own personal view.

 

[K-town Vol Fan]

For emergency use only

Okay - and if they learned something during the trials that made them question the safety at all, it would not have been approved.