Recruiting forum off topic thread (no politics, covid, or hot button issues)

[Bassmaster_Vol]

So I can read the Bible, go to Bible study, and come up with different interpretations of scripture.
Which of us is correct? Or either?
It doesn't matter the specific scripture or which version of the Bible, most people interpret it differently.
I don't interpret it as it's my place to tell others how to live. You feel like you have that power. That's the main difference in where we are coming from right now. You are entrenched so deeply in faith of yourself, that you don't give yourself room to be wrong. And if you don't have room to be wrong and you are right all of the time about your interpretation, how do you create a greater understanding of the Lord through further study? If you have all the right answers, how do you deepen you're faith by questioning further what you believe so that God can grow your love and appreciation for the Trinity?

This is an example of you being guilty of the sin that you supposedly hate so much. This is all nothing but judgment. None of which is true by the way. You have not pointed to one text that I am supposedly interpreting wrong. I suspect its because you cannot. There haven't been many texts in here discussed, and the ones that have been are explicit and clear. If you can point to a text and argue my interpretation, I'd be glad to hear it. All you're doing in this post is assuming things about me which are not true.

I don't tell people how to live, but I submit to what Scripture teaches. By the way, Jesus expects the same: "Why do you call Me Lord, Lord and do not do what I say?" Luke 6:46. Can we know what Christ says or not? If not, how can we do what He says?

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

Preaching the Word is repeating what the Greatest has said. Not using your preferences to interpret it and read between the lines through inference and the such. If the Word is infallible, and you are fallable,who are you to interpret it?

When you demonstrate where I've done any of what you are accusing me of, we'll talk. Thus far you are judging me wrongly, which is sin.

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

I am not judging. I am interpreting your action. I am not calling it a sin.
Saying you are sinful and fallible is a fact, not an opinion or judgement.

Nowhere have I denied that I'm sinful or fallible. But that's not what you're accusing me of. You specifically accused me of the following:

"You feel like you have that power. That's the main difference in where we are coming from right now. You are entrenched so deeply in faith of yourself, that you don't give yourself room to be wrong. And if you don't have room to be wrong and you are right all of the time about your interpretation, how do you create a greater understanding of the Lord through further study? If you have all the right answers, how do you deepen you're faith by questioning further what you believe so that God can grow your love and appreciation for the Trinity?"

None of this is true, but you have judged it to be so, so you have judged with unrighteous judgment, and have sinned against me without cause. You have yet to demonstrate anywhere that I have misinterpreted scripture or not applied it correctly. When I have quoted scripture, you have ignored it. You have demonstrated none of these accusations.

You've already said that scripture is not your final authority, so what authority do you have even to condemn me?

 

[#1GatorHater]

What your describing would be akin to moral relativism. Just because you interpret something your way, doesn’t mean it’s correct. Many a cult has built on that basis.

One important tool the Bible gives us to help with that is the mandate of 2-3 witnesses. Therefore if you interpret something a certain way, you should be able to find witnesses in the Bible to substantiate it. That is one reason I rarely use one Scripture to support an idea.

I agree. This is what I am saying.
My interpretation and application is mine and yours is yours. I was raised Southern Baptist and Mormon (moms side of the family). Reading and praying gave me cause to leave those denominations and find one that more aligned with my beliefs. I am Episcopalian. I don't look down on other denominations or judge them. Their teachings and interpretations didn't line up with what my faith was leading me to in concert with my relationship with Jesus.

 

[#1GatorHater]

When you demonstrate where I've done any of what you are accusing me of, we'll talk. Thus far you are judging me wrongly, which is sin.

I didn't judge. You were born into sin.

 

[#1GatorHater]

Nowhere have I denied that I'm sinful or fallible. But that's not what you're accusing me of. You specifically accused me of the following:

"You feel like you have that power. That's the main difference in where we are coming from right now. You are entrenched so deeply in faith of yourself, that you don't give yourself room to be wrong. And if you don't have room to be wrong and you are right all of the time about your interpretation, how do you create a greater understanding of the Lord through further study? If you have all the right answers, how do you deepen you're faith by questioning further what you believe so that God can grow your love and appreciation for the Trinity?"

None of this is true, but you have judged it to be so, so you have judged with unrighteous judgment, and have sinned against me without cause. You have yet to demonstrate anywhere that I have misinterpreted scripture or not applied it correctly. When I have quoted scripture, you have ignored it. You have demonstrated none of these accusations.

You've already said that scripture is not your final authority, so what authority do you have even to condemn me?

That is my interpretation of how you condemned transgenders, liberals, Bama fans, etc.

 

[#1GatorHater]

Nowhere have I denied that I'm sinful or fallible. But that's not what you're accusing me of. You specifically accused me of the following:

"You feel like you have that power. That's the main difference in where we are coming from right now. You are entrenched so deeply in faith of yourself, that you don't give yourself room to be wrong. And if you don't have room to be wrong and you are right all of the time about your interpretation, how do you create a greater understanding of the Lord through further study? If you have all the right answers, how do you deepen you're faith by questioning further what you believe so that God can grow your love and appreciation for the Trinity?"

None of this is true, but you have judged it to be so, so you have judged with unrighteous judgment, and have sinned against me without cause. You have yet to demonstrate anywhere that I have misinterpreted scripture or not applied it correctly. When I have quoted scripture, you have ignored it. You have demonstrated none of these accusations.

You've already said that scripture is not your final authority, so what authority do you have even to condemn me?

I have the same authority that you have.

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

I didn't judge. You were born into sin.

Nowhere have I denied that I'm a sinner. I'm still waiting on you to demonstrate any of the accusations that you have made against me. Thus far you are judging me sinfully and are guilty of the very thing you claim to hate.

As to your last question, "If you are fallible, how can you interpret it?"

I pose the same questions you ignored:

But man being fallible does not mean that he is incapable of interpreting Scripture, or else 1. why would God give it to us? 2. Why did Jesus hold people accountable for their faith in the Old Testament in Matthew 5:18-20 and Luke 24:25-27? Why does Paul tell Timothy and Titus around 25 times that they are to guard doctrine and the truth? If man cannot understand it, what is he talking about?

How can he say that "All scripture is inspired by God and PROFITABLE for teaching, for rebuke, for correction, for training in righteousness that the man of God may be ADEQUATE AND EQUIPPED for every good work" (2nd Tim. 3:16-17) if we cannot understand Scripture? How is scripture profitable, how can it equip us for every good work if it's impossible for us to truly interpret it because we are fallible?

How do we obey his command to "preach the word" in 2nd Timothy 4:2? Surely preaching the word is impossible if we cannot understand it.

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

That is my interpretation of how you condemned transgenders, liberals, Bama fans, etc.

I have condemned no one. I have quoted Scripture that does. Do you deny that the Scripture condemns those who do not have Christ?

Do you disagree with Jesus in John 3:18? "He who believes in Him is not condemned, but He who does not believe is condemned already, because He has not believed in the only Son of God." Is Jesus wrong? Or are you saying that we cannot understand what He says there?

 

[#1GatorHater]

That is my interpretation of how you condemned transgenders, liberals, Bama fans, etc.

Nowhere have I denied that I'm sinful or fallible. But that's not what you're accusing me of. You specifically accused me of the following:

"You feel like you have that power. That's the main difference in where we are coming from right now. You are entrenched so deeply in faith of yourself, that you don't give yourself room to be wrong. And if you don't have room to be wrong and you are right all of the time about your interpretation, how do you create a greater understanding of the Lord through further study? If you have all the right answers, how do you deepen you're faith by questioning further what you believe so that God can grow your love and appreciation for the Trinity?"

None of this is true, but you have judged it to be so, so you have judged with unrighteous judgment, and have sinned against me without cause. You have yet to demonstrate anywhere that I have misinterpreted scripture or not applied it correctly. When I have quoted scripture, you have ignored it. You have demonstrated none of these accusations.

You've already said that scripture is not your final authority, so what authority do you have even to condemn me?

I have tried to be nice and have a solid back and forth and further discussion. But you are so locked in on making other people wrong, you aren't even engaging me in a meaningful conversation about whether your interpretation and judgment could be wrong.
I fully admit that I may be wrong and probably am. I am not so full of myself and righteous indignation to think that I have the answers or truly destiny the scriptures in their fullness.

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

I have the same authority that you have.

so you've changed your position already? Having said that your final authority is your love for God, you're now saying that Scripture is your final authority?

 

[#1GatorHater]

I have condemned no one. I have quoted Scripture that does. Do you deny that the Scripture condemns those who do not have Christ?

Do you disagree with Jesus in John 3:18? "He who believes in Him is not condemned, but He who does not believe is condemned already, because He has not believed in the only Son of God." Is Jesus wrong? Or are you saying that we cannot understand what He says there?

I can easily pull up plenty of your posts condemning people for various things and passing judgment. It's okay to have faith. It's not okay to weaponize your belief to belittle others.

 

[#1GatorHater]

so you've changed your position already? Having said that your final authority is your love for God, you're now saying that Scripture is your final authority?

What makes you put all of your faith in scripture? Is it not your love of God? Is it not your thankfulness for this blessing of a life and all the continuous blessings and challenges that life is filled with that brings your closer to God?
My authority to put MY faith in scripture is my love of God and his unending love for me. Without that, scripture would be meaningless.
What is faith without love? Bargaining or betting against the punishments of choosing the other side?
I don't belive the scriptures because they are written in a book. I believe them because God lives in me and through me and all blessings are from God and do to God's love.

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

I have tried to be nice and have a solid back and forth and further discussion. But you are so locked in on making other people wrong, you aren't even engaging me in a meaningful conversation about whether your interpretation and judgment could be wrong.
I fully admit that I may be wrong and probably am. I am not so full of myself and righteous indignation to think that I have the answers or truly destiny the scriptures in their fullness.

I am still asking you to give me a specific instance where you believe I am wrong. You have not. How can I have a discussion about an interpretation when you won't even give me a specific one to discuss? I have quoted scripture regarding homosexuality. Do you have a different interpretation of those verses? If so, you haven't given it.

I have given you my reasoning on why I believe that transgenderism is a sin. You haven't addressed it. You're saying that I am trying to make other people wrong and not engaging. That could not be further from the truth. I am the only one that has offered any substance in this conversation while you're simply providing ad hominem attacks about my ego. I have quoted at least a dozen verses by now none of which you've even attempted to respond to.

I don't have time for ad hominem so if there's nothing else, then we can end the conversation

 

[#1GatorHater]

so you've changed your position already? Having said that your final authority is your love for God, you're now saying that Scripture is your final authority?

I am not sure if you enjoy this conversation. You seem pretty adversarial.

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

I can easily pull up plenty of your posts condemning people for various things and passing judgment. It's okay to have faith. It's not okay to weaponize your belief to belittle others.

Another accusation that is unsubstantiated while ignoring the scripture that I posted. That's enough of this conversation. Your final authority is not Scripture, so again I say, there's no reason to talk. I will say, "Scripture says," and you'll simply ignore that and post your own thoughts. That is not productive.

So with that, have a nice day.

 

[#1GatorHater]

I am still asking you to give me a specific instance where you believe I am wrong. You have not. How can I have a discussion about an interpretation when you won't even give me a specific one to discuss? I have quoted scripture regarding homosexuality. Do you have a different interpretation of those verses? If so, you haven't given it.

I have given you my reasoning on why I believe that transgenderism is a sin. You haven't addressed it. You're saying that I am trying to make other people wrong and not engaging. That could not be further from the truth. I am the only one that has offered any substance in this conversation while you're simply providing ad hominem attacks about my ego. I have quoted at least a dozen verses by now none of which you've even attempted to respond to.

I don't have time for ad hominem so if there's nothing else, then we can end the conversation

I am responding to you telling me that I am wrong. I said you shouldn't condemn others or read between the lines on scripture. That's all. You do that with almost every post you make.

 

[#1GatorHater]

Another accusation that is unsubstantiated while ignoring the scripture that I posted. That's enough of this conversation. Your final authority is not Scripture, so again I say, there's no reason to talk. I will say, "Scripture says," and you'll simply ignore that and post your own thoughts. That is not productive.

So with that, have a nice day.

It's not what the scripture says, it's how you interpret it.
You don't get it. This conversation is the same. You don't actually get the conversation that is going on. You want to have a contest of quoting scripture. Have fun with that. I've got service work to do.

 

[Glitch]

@#1GatorHater , much of Paul's writings to the churches around the Mediterranean were often filled with him calling out their sins and how they were falling short. If he had not done that many of those people would have continued down the path of sin and been eternally separated from God. We are called to do the same. Sexual immorality is specifically called out in the bible. Through the creation of male and female of each species, and tying the continuation of each species to sexual reproduction one can reasonably infer that we and all animals were created for heterosexual relations. The human sexual experience is further refined to be within the loving confines of marriage because the act of sex is meant to be a physical and spiritual bonding between a husband and wife. Therefore, sex outside of that is sinful and not what God intended. Now, if someone is living in sin and I am aware of it then it is my duty as a Christian to take them aside and point it out. If they are not a believer then my words would likely mean little so my goal should be to introduce them to the love of Christ and pray that they accept Him and enter their own personal relationship with Him. It would be un-Christian of me to just allow that person/people to continue in sin without at least attempting to bring them into contact with the Gospel and ultimate redemption.

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

It's not what the scripture says, it's how you interpret it.
You don't get it. This conversation is the same. You don't actually get the conversation that is going on. You want to have a contest of quoting scripture. Have fun with that. I've got service work to do.

Crieve, we're talking about interpretation. I have never said that I am infallible. To argue that I believe that about myself is a lie.

Second, I've stated the reasons why I believe that I can interpret Scripture. I've quoted many verses that assume our ability to interpret Scripture and I've asked you if we cannot interpret, then how could we obey those Scriptures. You've never responded.

Third, on the issues at hand, I've given Scripture that says explicitly that homosexuality is a sin. If you think there is a different interpretation of those verses, or that mine is wrong, you haven't given it. I've quoted scripture and given my reasons for claiming that transgenderism is wrong. Do you disagree? If so, you haven't said it or given reasons why.

So if you want to claim that I'm not interpreting these passages correctly, then demonstrate it. If you want to claim that I cannot interpret these passages because I'm fallible, then demonstrate that and answer the questions above about the Bible's assumptions that we can and should be diligent to interpret the Bible correctly. Otherwise, you acknowledging that scripture is not your final authority is very clear. Your authority is very clearly something else.

Fourth, of course I'm quoting Scripture, it is our only authority. It is the "once and for all delivered to the saint's faith." It is the "God-breathed word." What else would I quote as my authority on these topics we are discussing?

Finally, service work will not get you to heaven. Returning to what you said earlier, you didn't know if you could please God. Service work will not do it. Faith alone in Jesus Christ. That's it. You can't get to heaven on the basis of your own merits. Only on His. His perfect life; His work of atonement, that is the only way. Scripture is what tells us all about it, that if we repent of our sins and believe in Christ, our sins are imputed to Him, and His righteousness is imputed to us. It is only by being clothed in His righteousness that we can stand holy before God, not on the basis of our own.

Now, enough with the ad hominem attacks from you already. I also have work to do.

 

[#1GatorHater]

Crieve, we're talking about interpretation. I have never said that I am infallible. To argue that I believe that about myself is a lie.

Second, I've stated the reasons why I believe that I can interpret Scripture. I've quoted many verses that assume our ability to interpret Scripture and I've asked you if we cannot interpret, then how could we obey those Scriptures. You've never responded.

Third, on the issues at hand, I've given Scripture that says explicitly that homosexuality is a sin. If you think there is a different interpretation of those verses, or that mine is wrong, you haven't given it. I've quoted scripture and given my reasons for claiming that transgenderism is wrong. Do you disagree? If so, you haven't said it or given reasons why.

So if you want to claim that I'm not interpreting these passages correctly, then demonstrate it. If you want to claim that I cannot interpret these passages because I'm fallible, then demonstrate that and answer the questions above about the Bible's assumptions that we can and should be diligent to interpret the Bible correctly. Otherwise, you acknowledging that scripture is not your final authority is very clear. Your authority is very clearly something else.

Fourth, of course I'm quoting Scripture, it is our only authority. It is the "once and for all delivered to the saint's faith." It is the "God-breathed word." What else would I quote as my authority on these topics we are discussing?

Finally, service work will not get you to heaven. Returning to what you said earlier, you didn't know if you could please God. Service work will not do it. Faith alone in Jesus Christ. That's it. You can't get to heaven on the basis of your own merits. Only on His. His perfect life; His work of atonement, that is the only way. Scripture is what tells us all about it, that if we repent of our sins and believe in Christ, our sins are imputed to Him, and His righteousness is imputed to us. It is only by being clothed in His righteousness that we can stand holy before God, not on the basis of our own.

Now, enough with the ad hominem attacks from you already. I also have work to do.

I don't do service work to get to heaven. I do it because it is the right thing to do and it is in alignment with my beliefs.
My stance on scripture interpretation is based upon Biblical hermeneutics.
Not sure who Crieve is but that person must have had a similar stance as myself when it comes to religious zealotry, bigotry, and the like.

 

[#1GatorHater]

Crieve, we're talking about interpretation. I have never said that I am infallible. To argue that I believe that about myself is a lie.

Second, I've stated the reasons why I believe that I can interpret Scripture. I've quoted many verses that assume our ability to interpret Scripture and I've asked you if we cannot interpret, then how could we obey those Scriptures. You've never responded.

Third, on the issues at hand, I've given Scripture that says explicitly that homosexuality is a sin. If you think there is a different interpretation of those verses, or that mine is wrong, you haven't given it. I've quoted scripture and given my reasons for claiming that transgenderism is wrong. Do you disagree? If so, you haven't said it or given reasons why.

So if you want to claim that I'm not interpreting these passages correctly, then demonstrate it. If you want to claim that I cannot interpret these passages because I'm fallible, then demonstrate that and answer the questions above about the Bible's assumptions that we can and should be diligent to interpret the Bible correctly. Otherwise, you acknowledging that scripture is not your final authority is very clear. Your authority is very clearly something else.

Fourth, of course I'm quoting Scripture, it is our only authority. It is the "once and for all delivered to the saint's faith." It is the "God-breathed word." What else would I quote as my authority on these topics we are discussing?

Finally, service work will not get you to heaven. Returning to what you said earlier, you didn't know if you could please God. Service work will not do it. Faith alone in Jesus Christ. That's it. You can't get to heaven on the basis of your own merits. Only on His. His perfect life; His work of atonement, that is the only way. Scripture is what tells us all about it, that if we repent of our sins and believe in Christ, our sins are imputed to Him, and His righteousness is imputed to us. It is only by being clothed in His righteousness that we can stand holy before God, not on the basis of our own.

Now, enough with the ad hominem attacks from you already. I also have work to do.

I don't even like hummus or hom n them

 

[#1GatorHater]

Crieve, we're talking about interpretation. I have never said that I am infallible. To argue that I believe that about myself is a lie.

Second, I've stated the reasons why I believe that I can interpret Scripture. I've quoted many verses that assume our ability to interpret Scripture and I've asked you if we cannot interpret, then how could we obey those Scriptures. You've never responded.

Third, on the issues at hand, I've given Scripture that says explicitly that homosexuality is a sin. If you think there is a different interpretation of those verses, or that mine is wrong, you haven't given it. I've quoted scripture and given my reasons for claiming that transgenderism is wrong. Do you disagree? If so, you haven't said it or given reasons why.

So if you want to claim that I'm not interpreting these passages correctly, then demonstrate it. If you want to claim that I cannot interpret these passages because I'm fallible, then demonstrate that and answer the questions above about the Bible's assumptions that we can and should be diligent to interpret the Bible correctly. Otherwise, you acknowledging that scripture is not your final authority is very clear. Your authority is very clearly something else.

Fourth, of course I'm quoting Scripture, it is our only authority. It is the "once and for all delivered to the saint's faith." It is the "God-breathed word." What else would I quote as my authority on these topics we are discussing?

Finally, service work will not get you to heaven. Returning to what you said earlier, you didn't know if you could please God. Service work will not do it. Faith alone in Jesus Christ. That's it. You can't get to heaven on the basis of your own merits. Only on His. His perfect life; His work of atonement, that is the only way. Scripture is what tells us all about it, that if we repent of our sins and believe in Christ, our sins are imputed to Him, and His righteousness is imputed to us. It is only by being clothed in His righteousness that we can stand holy before God, not on the basis of our own.

Now, enough with the ad hominem attacks from you already. I also have work to do.

I never said you were not interpreting them correctly. I am saying you can't tell other people that they are not interpreting them correctly.

You have every right to interpret them how you want. I am saying that everybody does and to claim that you have the only correct understanding is false and any judgements you bring from your interpretations is like fruit from a poisoned tree.

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

I never said you were not interpreting them correctly. I am saying you can't tell other people that they are not interpreting them correctly.

You have every right to interpret them how you want. I am saying that everybody does and to claim that you have the only correct understanding is false and any judgements you bring from your interpretations is like fruit from a poisoned tree.

So there’s no way to know what is true then. It’s all just a waste of time. Got it

 

[#1GatorHater]

@#1GatorHater , much of Paul's writings to the churches around the Mediterranean were often filled with him calling out their sins and how they were falling short. If he had not done that many of those people would have continued down the path of sin and been eternally separated from God. We are called to do the same. Sexual immorality is specifically called out in the bible. Through the creation of male and female of each species, and tying the continuation of each species to sexual reproduction one can reasonably infer that we and all animals were created for heterosexual relations. The human sexual experience is further refined to be within the loving confines of marriage because the act of sex is meant to be a physical and spiritual bonding between a husband and wife. Therefore, sex outside of that is sinful and not what God intended. Now, if someone is living in sin and I am aware of it then it is my duty as a Christian to take them aside and point it out. If they are not a believer then my words would likely mean little so my goal should be to introduce them to the love of Christ and pray that they accept Him and enter their own personal relationship with Him. It would be un-Christian of me to just allow that person/people to continue in sin without at least attempting to bring them into contact with the Gospel and ultimate redemption.

I can respect and appreciate your approach.
Every lustful thought we have is a sin
That power T, an idol and a sin. We are all living in constant sin! It's amazing that God loves us so much to have given the only Son as a sacrifice, to have manifested in flesh and suffered so that we may end up in the full presence of God.

Also, God does not make mistakes. How do we know what the lesson we should be learning from this new societal issue should be? Should it be to say that they are mentally ill and are going to burn in Hell? Did God make them mentally ill? Were they born with this "mental illness" like I was born with several diseases?
I ways come back to love and acceptance, turning the other cheek, and reaching out a helping hand. If they want to ask me about my beliefs, I will definitely share them without condemning their own